How do Americans view universities abroad such as McGill, St Andrews, or similar?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Schools like McGill and St. Andrews are seen as a clear step below the top ranked (think top 30-40 or so) schools. I'm sure you can still get a decent education at them, but I'm a little baffled as to why people seem convinced they'd give you a leg up in the job market stateside. I'm a hiring manager. It's not.

If DC wants to stay abroad or live in those countries for the mid- to long-term, go for it. Otherwise, staying in America is the wiser choice.

As a hiring manager, sounds like it doesn’t give you a leg up. But does it harm?

[Anonymous]

McGill has a great reputation and would be a plus in my workplace. McGill is a serious place.

Saint Andrew's grads likely wouldn't get interviewed. Rick kids going on an extended field trip. Doesn't seem serious at all.

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:McGill has a great reputation and would be a plus in my workplace. McGill is a serious place.

Saint Andrew's grads likely wouldn't get interviewed. Rick kids going on an extended field trip. Doesn't seem serious at all.

+1

I really like McGill. I lived in Montreal and have friends who went there. Really good place. Toronto, Queens, and UBC are solid, too. St. Andrews seems like a finishing school for kids who want to make study abroad their entire personality; I haven't been very impressed with the people I know who went there. That's doubly true for grad programs in the UK, even LSE; it seems like they'll take anyone who can pay in full. Now, if you're an American who was admitted to Oxbridge directly as an undergrad, that's really impressive!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:McGill has a great reputation and would be a plus in my workplace. McGill is a serious place.

Saint Andrew's grads likely wouldn't get interviewed. Rick kids going on an extended field trip. Doesn't seem serious at all.

+1

I really like McGill. I lived in Montreal and have friends who went there. Really good place. Toronto, Queens, and UBC are solid, too. St. Andrews seems like a finishing school for kids who want to make study abroad their entire personality; I haven't been very impressed with the people I know who went there. That's doubly true for grad programs in the UK, even LSE; it seems like they'll take anyone who can pay in full. Now, if you're an American who was admitted to Oxbridge directly as an undergrad, that's really impressive!

For some americans it's a finishing school, but you're utterly mistaken if that's your view of St Andrews. The UK and EU kids, and many (but not all) of the Americans there are all top notch, from the top of their graduating school classes. DC has St Andrews peers who turned down Ivies and MIT in favor of St A.

You're wrong to denigrate the academics, it's rigorous courses where students are forced to really independently learn the canon of their academic disciplines, as opposed to liberal arts curricula , which can be great, but sometimes are fluffy/devoid of focus. Most all St Andrews departments are ranked top 5 in the Uk, IR for example is ranked first, among some others.

For graduate outcomes, obviously it's who you know that holds substantial sway, and many St Andrews students, american or not, are well connected and thus enabled here. But students graduate from St A with great options, most of the major consulting firms and banks recruit at St Andrews, so they see the potential there. And great grad school acceptances too, probably a way larger than average proportion go on to PhDs.

McGill is great too. Visited both McG and StA with my DC. Both, even with international tuition, are cheaper than American schools of the same caliber-- I think St Andrews more so: if St Andrews were located somewhere in New England it would so easily be 75k as the ivies are, but even international tuition is in the 20k range, with living expenses, flights etc amounts to around 40k range. It's a steal if you're a family that would be full pay at top tier schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:McGill has a great reputation and would be a plus in my workplace. McGill is a serious place.

Saint Andrew's grads likely wouldn't get interviewed. Rick kids going on an extended field trip. Doesn't seem serious at all.

+1

I really like McGill. I lived in Montreal and have friends who went there. Really good place. Toronto, Queens, and UBC are solid, too. St. Andrews seems like a finishing school for kids who want to make study abroad their entire personality; I haven't been very impressed with the people I know who went there. That's doubly true for grad programs in the UK, even LSE; it seems like they'll take anyone who can pay in full. Now, if you're an American who was admitted to Oxbridge directly as an undergrad, that's really impressive!

For some americans it's a finishing school, but you're utterly mistaken if that's your view of St Andrews. The UK and EU kids, and many (but not all) of the Americans there are all top notch, from the top of their graduating school classes. DC has St Andrews peers who turned down Ivies and MIT in favor of St A.

You're wrong to denigrate the academics, it's rigorous courses where students are forced to really independently learn the canon of their academic disciplines, as opposed to liberal arts curricula , which can be great, but sometimes are fluffy/devoid of focus. Most all St Andrews departments are ranked top 5 in the Uk, IR for example is ranked first, among some others.

For graduate outcomes, obviously it's who you know that holds substantial sway, and many St Andrews students, american or not, are well connected and thus enabled here. But students graduate from St A with great options, most of the major consulting firms and banks recruit at St Andrews, so they see the potential there. And great grad school acceptances too, probably a way larger than average proportion go on to PhDs.

McGill is great too. Visited both McG and StA with my DC. Both, even with international tuition, are cheaper than American schools of the same caliber-- I think St Andrews more so: if St Andrews were located somewhere in New England it would so easily be 75k as the ivies are, but even international tuition is in the 20k range, with living expenses, flights etc amounts to around 40k range. It's a steal if you're a family that would be full pay at top tier schools.

NP.

You can tell people they’re “wrong” all day long. The impression we have as Americans and hiring managers (in my case and in the case of some people in this thread) is not that these are kids that otherwise got into Ivies or MIT. Even if you know kids like that, that’s not what I think when I see these resumes. For me they’re on par with mid-ranked state flagships.

[Anonymous]

One point about British schools: unlike American universities you have to sit exams at the end of your 3 or in the case of St. Andrews four year program. British employers will view those exams results. For those not tracking the top score is first, 2.1 and 2.2. Most Americans struggle with the format of the exam - and receive a 2.1 or 2.2. It’s like wanting to be a professional golfer but not getting an early enough start. Upside - no grades really ‘count’ during your years of study - but man do those last weeks of exams count. Something to factor in when making your decision. Also if you are interested in St Andrew’s, William and Mary has a cool 2 years in Scotland, 2 years in Williamsburg program...which could be a nice compromise.

[Anonymous]

My nephew is at St. Andrews. He turned down some US schools, including Cornell, Tulane and Grinnell. Not sure where else. He does know a ton of very wealthy students there.

[Anonymous]

Gonna be honest, no one has ever heard of these two schools. An average American does not know these schools even exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Gonna be honest, no one has ever heard of these two schools. An average American does not know these schools even exist.

Whether or not "average Americans" have heard of a school is not a compelling reason to select it. Average Americans know a lot about schools with big sports programs. That's not a dig on those schools (I went to Michigan) but there are tons of prestigious schools inside the U.S. that fly under the radar of average Americans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gonna be honest, no one has ever heard of these two schools. An average American does not know these schools even exist.

Whether or not "average Americans" have heard of a school is not a compelling reason to select it. Average Americans know a lot about schools with big sports programs. That's not a dig on those schools (I went to Michigan) but there are tons of prestigious schools inside the U.S. that fly under the radar of average Americans.

DP. I guess it depends what the point is for the student. I went to a Big 10 and it has always helped me slightly with hiring (less than an in prestigious school, more than a dinky directional school no one is familiar with).

[Anonymous]

I don’t view McGill and St Andrews has being similar at all. I see McGill as educationally equivalent to a top-tier US public (Berkeley, Michigan) but with fewer undergrad amenities and a more straightforward admissions process. I see St Andrews as a place where affluent Americans send their academically unimpressive kids to escape from having them placed in the US college status hierarchy and to give them a fun college experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t view McGill and St Andrews has being similar at all. I see McGill as educationally equivalent to a top-tier US public (Berkeley, Michigan) but with fewer undergrad amenities and a more straightforward admissions process. I see St Andrews as a place where affluent Americans send their academically unimpressive kids to escape from having them placed in the US college status hierarchy and to give them a fun college experience.

My daughter will be applying and she’s a 4.0 uw/mid 1500s student and she’s not looking at it as a safety at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most people in the USA never heard of it.

+1. I had never heard of McGill until I met a neighbor who went there. I grew up in flyover country. The only foreign universities I had heard of were the Sorbonne (sp?), Oxford, and Cambridge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools like McGill and St. Andrews are seen as a clear step below the top ranked (think top 30-40 or so) schools. I'm sure you can still get a decent education at them, but I'm a little baffled as to why people seem convinced they'd give you a leg up in the job market stateside. I'm a hiring manager. It's not.

If DC wants to stay abroad or live in those countries for the mid- to long-term, go for it. Otherwise, staying in America is the wiser choice.

As a hiring manager, sounds like it doesn’t give you a leg up. But does it harm?

Question for first PP: how did you develop your opinion of those schools?