How do Americans view universities abroad such as McGill, St Andrews, or similar?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:St Andrew’s is not an elite school in any way.

This may (or may not) change your mind:https://thetab.com/2024/09/10/these-are-the-hardest-uk-unis-to-get-into-right-now-based-on-how-many-ucas-points-you-need

The article states: "Oxbridge students need to deflate their egos and stop bragging about their Oxford and Cambridge being the hardest to get into. Oxford and Cambridge really aren’t the hardest unis to get into, based on UCAS points. Students at Oxford and Cambridge had an average of 203 and 208 UCAS points respectively. That’s below the University of St Andrews (212), the University of Glasgow (211), the University of Strathclyde (210) and Imperial College London (204)."

The author of this article went to Cambridge, and the publication itself was founded by three Cambridge students, so I don't imagine they have a pro St Andrews agenda. As for me, I have a degree from Oxford, but I have a kid with an offer in hand from the Faculty of Science at St Andrews, and am trying my best to help him with his decision. His other top choices are CU Bouilder's College of Engineering and Applied Science and UBC Vancouver's Faculty of Science.

As an American who went to high school in the US, I'm not terribly familiar with UCAS points, but would think it's at least a somewhat important metric?

Input welcome!

[Anonymous]

I wouldn’t read too much into UCAS tariff points when comparing Scottish and English universities. The two countries have different school systems and qualifications (e.g. Highers taken in 11th grade (equivalent) with an option to take further exams in 12th grade vs A levels taken in 12th grade (equivalent)), so the tariff points for Scottish and English students are not directly comparable. Glasgow and Strathclyde are not harder to get into than Oxford or Cambridge…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t read too much into UCAS tariff points when comparing Scottish and English universities. The two countries have different school systems and qualifications (e.g. Highers taken in 11th grade (equivalent) with an option to take further exams in 12th grade vs A levels taken in 12th grade (equivalent)), so the tariff points for Scottish and English students are not directly comparable. Glasgow and Strathclyde are not harder to get into than Oxford or Cambridge…

Spoken like someone who truly dislikes the fact that some of these Scottish unis manage to get a very good class every year.

UCAS tariffs are adjusted between Scottish and English systems to accommodate those differences. A in higher is almost HALF the points that an A level. I’m English with degree from two English unis while my daughter went to Edinburgh and is now at Cambridge finishing her masters and going into a PhD program.

[Anonymous]

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American colleges, with their strange insistence on "holistic" admissions, are not very appealing to my teen, who wants to focus on academics and go somewhere that admits based on that.
Universities abroad place much greater importance on grades and test scores than those in the US.

However, if my teen looks for a job or applies to grad school in the US (it would likely be grad school for him), how will hiring managers or admissions officers view those universities?

personally I view UTornonto and UWaterloo and Warwick, ICL, UCL, other Russel group unis more than those two. St. Andrews in particular seems to market itself to mediocre full pay Americans.

BS to lump “other Russell group unis more than St Andrews”. You clearly doesnt know much about Russell group unis.
St Andrews is a fine school. As you can see from all of current threads here, there are plenty of Americans giving up spots at t30 schools for St Andrews.

I have two kids that studied in the UK. My son went to Warwick and my daughter to St Andrews.
My son graduate with a first in their Econ & Management program.
My daughter graduated from St Andrews with a Mgmt and International Relations degree.

She is now at an MBB consulting back in the US straight from St Andrews. My son is in NYC working for a boutique investment firm where one of the partners has a Warwick degree. But he couldn’t get through the recruiting process for US top firms straight from undergrad. While she had doors opened. So there you go….

"there are plenty of Americans giving up spots at t30 schools for St Andrews." - a testament to their marketing, to be sure. Nothing to do with their academic quality.

As for your children, perhaps your daughter is a better interviewer, or they wanted her for some other reason besides her degree. Purely in terms of academics, your son certainly had the more academic qualification.

Go see what each of your children covered in their core econ courses first, second, years.

What are you talking about? What are you trying to prove here? I know reading comprehension is a tough concept….But she DID NOT study Econ….what is wrong with you? DO you understand what IR and Mgmt is?
So in your opinion, the fact she was able to navigate a MUCH better job means that they “wanted her for some other reason besides her degree”?
You are clearly an AS*H*LE. GO away

Are you saying management at StA has no econ courses? That's genuinely shocking, even as someone who already did not have the best impression of StA outside the humanities.
I'm not sure what you find so offensive about that quote, by the way.

What are you arguing about? You are the one comparing apples and oranges here. Why are you so ridiculous?

This was your comment: “Go see what each of your children covered in their core econ courses first, second, years”.

Considering my son HAS a degree in Economics and my daughter doesnt, one would expect he has had more Econ classes than she did. She took 1st yr Macro and Micro as a 1st year.

What does this have to do with anything? Were you upset my daughter had an easier time in the US with a St Andrews degree than my son did with a Warwick degree? Are you a Warwick alumni? You are just wasting everybody’s time here besides being a chauvinist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Spoken like someone who truly dislikes the fact that some of these Scottish unis manage to get a very good class every year.

No, spoken like someone who went through high school in Scotland and studied at Glasgow Uni…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Spoken like someone who truly dislikes the fact that some of these Scottish unis manage to get a very good class every year.

No, spoken like someone who went through high school in Scotland and studied at Glasgow Uni…

Again, as an English women with family having studied at Scottish unis for years, you are underestimating the fact that there are Less Scottish students w higher at Edinburgh and St Andrews than English students with A levels.

[Anonymous]

I didn’t say or imply anything about the percentage of English vs. Scottish students at Edinburgh or St Andrew’s. I simply provided a caveat about using UCAS tariffs as a metric when comparing at Scottish universities. The earlier comment referred to Glasgow and Strathclyde as having higher average UCAS tariff scores than Oxford and Cambridge. I just noted that Glasgow and Strathclyde aren’t seen as harder to get into than Oxford or Cambridge. That’s not exactly a controversial opinion. I attended Glasgow and my brother attended Strathclyde - both good schools, but no-one is claiming they are tougher admits than Oxbridge…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didn’t say or imply anything about the percentage of English vs. Scottish students at Edinburgh or St Andrew’s. I simply provided a caveat about using UCAS tariffs as a metric when comparing at Scottish universities. The earlier comment referred to Glasgow and Strathclyde as having higher average UCAS tariff scores than Oxford and Cambridge. I just noted that Glasgow and Strathclyde aren’t seen as harder to get into than Oxford or Cambridge. That’s not exactly a controversial opinion. I attended Glasgow and my brother attended Strathclyde - both good schools, but no-one is claiming they are tougher admits than Oxbridge…

And they shouldn’t claim so.
Someone in the other thread posted about this. UCAS Tariffs cannot be looked at it on its own. It is ok to look at it, but it must in conjunction with every other variable that is pertinent to the applicant.

[Anonymous]

Great schools. I would put them with the T40s

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Great schools. I would put them with the T40s

DS gave up USC for St Andrews….To each their own

[Anonymous]

Bump

[Anonymous]

How are these viewed now?

[Anonymous]

The same as 3 weeks ago in the same thread….please

[Anonymous]

I just want to let folks know my daughter, who is a current student at St Andrews, definitely turned down a Top 30 US school (she has a full ride to UVA and acceptance to Tulane, was waitlisted Dartmouth and Cornell but didn't pursue) to go there, she wanted to be abroad and she loves it there. She also thinks the way American schools are doing higher education does not prepare you as well- though networking at top 30 does definitely help. There is definitely a "just missed ivy vibe" of the Americans at StA but it is easy to choose it over a top US 30- way less expensive and you get to travel Europe for cheap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a degree from Oxford, but I have a kid with an offer in hand from the Faculty of Science at St Andrews, and am trying my best to help him with his decision. His other top choices are CU Bouilder's College of Engineering and Applied Science and UBC Vancouver's Faculty of Science.

There are no bad choices in that set. As a US hiring manager, I am always happy to be able to hire a STEM grad from any of those.

I am well aware that UBC is in the top-3 in STEM in Canada and also well aware that StA has strong STEM programs. Major US tech firms hire from all 3. UBC and StA are widely known to be quality degrees — at least among most US tech firms.

If the student is a US citizen, then for all resumes submitted for US jobs be certain to explicitly list “US Citizen” at the bottom of the resume to avoid doubt about needing visa support from the employer. Some companies will not sponsor foreign work visas, but also are not allowed by their Legal folks to ask about citizenship/ visa status. Best to avoid the question when applying for a US job as a graduate from a non-US college.