Moving from Arlington to Bethesda(ish) for job--best school clusters?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

True. And some may have more. My student is motivated by being in classes filled with others who are too. Make sure you are in a cluster where this is the case.

I don't know what to say to people who believe that only some of the high schools in MCPS have a cohort of academically-motivated students.

No one is saying that, including the PP you responded to. Some people are saying that there is a difference in the size of the cohort of academically motivated kids and also that there can be degrees of academic motivation.

Plenty of people say that, including the PP(s) above.

What do you think "more" means? I even emboldened it for you in my last post to stand out.

It is clear (and would have been more so if you hadn't cut off the thread midpoint) that PP was saying that some schools have more or a larger academically motivated cohort than others. No one has said only "some" schools have this.

This size of this cohort may or may not matter to you, and that's fine, but let's not create straw men of what others are posting.

DP, and I don't think anyone's claiming there aren't differences in the size of the college-bound cohorts between MCPS high schools. The data make that clear.

What I (and I suspect others) object to is the claim that non-W school high school kids can't possibly compete intellectually with their W-school peers. In my own little corner of the DCC, you can't walk a block without finding a parent, and usually more than one, with a Ph.D. (tons of academics and government scientists here, along with teachers, social workers, police officers, stay at home parents, etc., although very few BigLawyers/lobbyists/consultants). It's both ignorant and insulting to suggest that our kids are intellectually inferior to those in the W schools, and, yes, that's exactly what PPs who claim that AP/IB classes in the DCC aren't "at the same level" as W schools are saying. In providing advice to someone who is looking to move into the area, and doesn't know much about the distinctions between schools, it's important to be honest about what you do and don't know.

No one is saying that any individual kid is or is not at the same level. There are absolutely are kids in the DCC (or any other school) that are very bit as smart as kids at a W school. But, the fact that there is a smaller cohort of college-bound kids (and a smaller cohort aiming for competitive colleges) does change the dynamic, in the classroom and more broadly. But, let's stop talking in the abstract. Let's look at data.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2019/2018%20AP%20and%20IB%20Course%20Enrollment%20and%20Exam%20Participation%20and%20Performance.pdf

Appendix B above shows the percentage of kids scoring 3 or higher on AP, which ranges from 91% at Wooton to 35.1% at Watkins Mill.

So, yes, a student taking AP X at Wooton or Watkins Mill is being taught the same curriculum, but do you really not believe there will be a difference in terms of what the class can cover and the depth of discussions that will occur? Obviously, those are the extremes, but if you look at the data there is a pronounced difference among high schools, with lots of schools in the 80s and others in the 30s or 50s (oddly none in the 40s). Of course, this only looks at AP classes. Almost no students (none if you count things like gym and electives) will be in all AP classes and the student body as a whole becomes more relevant there as well.

Again, this isn't to say that there aren't kids at Watkins Mill (or elsewhere) every bit as smart and smarter than kids at Wooton or that a kid can't get a good education at any MCPS school, but I think it is wrong to say that, just because there is a college-bound cohort at all MCPS schools, there differences between schools are irrelevant to someone's high school education and experience.

It is wrong to say that, because of course it's not true. It's also not what I said. Moreover, believe it or not, some parents actually value diversity in the school setting, to the point where having a smaller college-bound cohort and perhaps less intellectually fervent discussions in AP English is less important than learning to get along with people from all walks of life and being aware that there are other walks of life, period.

But really, what horrible outcome is going to befall a bright, motivated kid who has a smaller cohort of similar peers in high school? I'm honestly curious to know what people are trying to avoid (or promote).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It is wrong to say that, because of course it's not true. It's also not what I said. Moreover, believe it or not, some parents actually value diversity in the school setting, to the point where having a smaller college-bound cohort and perhaps less intellectually fervent discussions in AP English is less important than learning to get along with people from all walks of life and being aware that there are other walks of life, period.

But really, what horrible outcome is going to befall a bright, motivated kid who has a smaller cohort of similar peers in high school? I'm honestly curious to know what people are trying to avoid (or promote).

DP. Also, I want to hear more about these intellectually fervent discussions kids have in AP Lang or AP Lit at Whitman that they don't have at other high schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It is wrong to say that, because of course it's not true. It's also not what I said. Moreover, believe it or not, some parents actually value diversity in the school setting, to the point where having a smaller college-bound cohort and perhaps less intellectually fervent discussions in AP English is less important than learning to get along with people from all walks of life and being aware that there are other walks of life, period.

But really, what horrible outcome is going to befall a bright, motivated kid who has a smaller cohort of similar peers in high school? I'm honestly curious to know what people are trying to avoid (or promote).

DP. Also, I want to hear more about these intellectually fervent discussions kids have in AP Lang or AP Lit at Whitman that they don't have at other high schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

True. And some may have more. My student is motivated by being in classes filled with others who are too. Make sure you are in a cluster where this is the case.

I don't know what to say to people who believe that only some of the high schools in MCPS have a cohort of academically-motivated students.

No one is saying that, including the PP you responded to. Some people are saying that there is a difference in the size of the cohort of academically motivated kids and also that there can be degrees of academic motivation.

Plenty of people say that, including the PP(s) above.

What do you think "more" means? I even emboldened it for you in my last post to stand out.

It is clear (and would have been more so if you hadn't cut off the thread midpoint) that PP was saying that some schools have more or a larger academically motivated cohort than others. No one has said only "some" schools have this.

This size of this cohort may or may not matter to you, and that's fine, but let's not create straw men of what others are posting.

DP, and I don't think anyone's claiming there aren't differences in the size of the college-bound cohorts between MCPS high schools. The data make that clear.

What I (and I suspect others) object to is the claim that non-W school high school kids can't possibly compete intellectually with their W-school peers. In my own little corner of the DCC, you can't walk a block without finding a parent, and usually more than one, with a Ph.D. (tons of academics and government scientists here, along with teachers, social workers, police officers, stay at home parents, etc., although very few BigLawyers/lobbyists/consultants). It's both ignorant and insulting to suggest that our kids are intellectually inferior to those in the W schools, and, yes, that's exactly what PPs who claim that AP/IB classes in the DCC aren't "at the same level" as W schools are saying. In providing advice to someone who is looking to move into the area, and doesn't know much about the distinctions between schools, it's important to be honest about what you do and don't know.

No one is saying that any individual kid is or is not at the same level. There are absolutely are kids in the DCC (or any other school) that are very bit as smart as kids at a W school. But, the fact that there is a smaller cohort of college-bound kids (and a smaller cohort aiming for competitive colleges) does change the dynamic, in the classroom and more broadly. But, let's stop talking in the abstract. Let's look at data.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2019/2018%20AP%20and%20IB%20Course%20Enrollment%20and%20Exam%20Participation%20and%20Performance.pdf

Appendix B above shows the percentage of kids scoring 3 or higher on AP, which ranges from 91% at Wooton to 35.1% at Watkins Mill.

So, yes, a student taking AP X at Wooton or Watkins Mill is being taught the same curriculum, but do you really not believe there will be a difference in terms of what the class can cover and the depth of discussions that will occur? Obviously, those are the extremes, but if you look at the data there is a pronounced difference among high schools, with lots of schools in the 80s and others in the 30s or 50s (oddly none in the 40s). Of course, this only looks at AP classes. Almost no students (none if you count things like gym and electives) will be in all AP classes and the student body as a whole becomes more relevant there as well.

Again, this isn't to say that there aren't kids at Watkins Mill (or elsewhere) every bit as smart and smarter than kids at Wooton or that a kid can't get a good education at any MCPS school, but I think it is wrong to say that, just because there is a college-bound cohort at all MCPS schools, there differences between schools are irrelevant to someone's high school education and experience.

It is wrong to say that, because of course it's not true. It's also not what I said. Moreover, believe it or not, some parents actually value diversity in the school setting, to the point where having a smaller college-bound cohort and perhaps less intellectually fervent discussions in AP English is less important than learning to get along with people from all walks of life and being aware that there are other walks of life, period.

But really, what horrible outcome is going to befall a bright, motivated kid who has a smaller cohort of similar peers in high school? I'm honestly curious to know what people are trying to avoid (or promote).

I hope you didn't hurt your back moving the goal posts or building straw men. I didn't say that any "horrible outcome" would befall a student at such schools. In fact, I explicitly said a kid can "get a good education at any MCPS school."

To the extent that you value things other than academics at a school and you believe that certain schools excel in those areas, that's great. You should go with what you prioritize. We were, however, discussing the academic component.

[Anonymous]

I think the best thing about starting a thread asking for advice about schools is you get an insight into the insanity of the competitive nature of the parents in the Bethesda and surrounding areas. Totally insane. And I live here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I hope you didn't hurt your back moving the goal posts or building straw men. I didn't say that any "horrible outcome" would befall a student at such schools. In fact, I explicitly said a kid can "get a good education at any MCPS school."

To the extent that you value things other than academics at a school and you believe that certain schools excel in those areas, that's great. You should go with what you prioritize. We were, however, discussing the academic component.

Please tell me more about student success on the AP Calculus A/B test due to the high level of intellectual discussion in class at Whitman or B-CC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I hope you didn't hurt your back moving the goal posts or building straw men. I didn't say that any "horrible outcome" would befall a student at such schools. In fact, I explicitly said a kid can "get a good education at any MCPS school."

To the extent that you value things other than academics at a school and you believe that certain schools excel in those areas, that's great. You should go with what you prioritize. We were, however, discussing the academic component.

Please tell me more about student success on the AP Calculus A/B test due to the high level of intellectual discussion in class at Whitman or B-CC.

B-CC not a W school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

True. And some may have more. My student is motivated by being in classes filled with others who are too. Make sure you are in a cluster where this is the case.

I don't know what to say to people who believe that only some of the high schools in MCPS have a cohort of academically-motivated students.

No one is saying that, including the PP you responded to. Some people are saying that there is a difference in the size of the cohort of academically motivated kids and also that there can be degrees of academic motivation.

Plenty of people say that, including the PP(s) above.

What do you think "more" means? I even emboldened it for you in my last post to stand out.

It is clear (and would have been more so if you hadn't cut off the thread midpoint) that PP was saying that some schools have more or a larger academically motivated cohort than others. No one has said only "some" schools have this.

This size of this cohort may or may not matter to you, and that's fine, but let's not create straw men of what others are posting.

DP, and I don't think anyone's claiming there aren't differences in the size of the college-bound cohorts between MCPS high schools. The data make that clear.

What I (and I suspect others) object to is the claim that non-W school high school kids can't possibly compete intellectually with their W-school peers. In my own little corner of the DCC, you can't walk a block without finding a parent, and usually more than one, with a Ph.D. (tons of academics and government scientists here, along with teachers, social workers, police officers, stay at home parents, etc., although very few BigLawyers/lobbyists/consultants). It's both ignorant and insulting to suggest that our kids are intellectually inferior to those in the W schools, and, yes, that's exactly what PPs who claim that AP/IB classes in the DCC aren't "at the same level" as W schools are saying. In providing advice to someone who is looking to move into the area, and doesn't know much about the distinctions between schools, it's important to be honest about what you do and don't know.

Where on earth did anyone say this? I just read through this thread and did not read anything that said what you are saying here. This sound
S incredibly defensive and contrived.

[Anonymous]

My kids have all gone to Whitman so I can’t comment on other schools. Going to Whitman is like going to a top college. Your kids will be around a large group of intellectually curious, studious kids who care deeply about their studies, for the most part. Like any other school, you will have all different types of personalities and behaviors. It will be more competitive for your kid to get into top colleges because they will be compared to their Whitman classmates— so that’s a downside. The jury is out on what I think of the new principal. The old principal was a rock star.

[Anonymous]

Prepare to be disappointed by MCPS regardless of where you end up. It's an inflexible, unthinking bureaucracy, where all attention goes to the lowest common denominator.

We are in one of the best elementary schools in Bethesda and I'm appalled at the the level of education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids have all gone to Whitman so I can’t comment on other schools. Going to Whitman is like going to a top college. Your kids will be around a large group of intellectually curious, studious kids who care deeply about their studies, for the most part. Like any other school, you will have all different types of personalities and behaviors. It will be more competitive for your kid to get into top colleges because they will be compared to their Whitman classmates— so that’s a downside. The jury is out on what I think of the new principal. The old principal was a rock star.

Plus, your kids won't catch a case of poors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I hope you didn't hurt your back moving the goal posts or building straw men. I didn't say that any "horrible outcome" would befall a student at such schools. In fact, I explicitly said a kid can "get a good education at any MCPS school."

To the extent that you value things other than academics at a school and you believe that certain schools excel in those areas, that's great. You should go with what you prioritize. We were, however, discussing the academic component.

Please tell me more about student success on the AP Calculus A/B test due to the high level of intellectual discussion in class at Whitman or B-CC.

B-CC not a W school.

Yes— please leave us out of your craziness. I mean we have our problems but I still like to think they aren’t all the same as yours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I hope you didn't hurt your back moving the goal posts or building straw men. I didn't say that any "horrible outcome" would befall a student at such schools. In fact, I explicitly said a kid can "get a good education at any MCPS school."

To the extent that you value things other than academics at a school and you believe that certain schools excel in those areas, that's great. You should go with what you prioritize. We were, however, discussing the academic component.

Please tell me more about student success on the AP Calculus A/B test due to the high level of intellectual discussion in class at Whitman or B-CC.

Intellectual discussion is only a piece of it. A class with stronger students is going to need to take less time going over concepts. It will be able to cover more material and in greater depth.

Since you cut off the thread, I'll again cite to actual data. Appendix B shows how students at each HS fair on the AP. https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2019/2018%20AP%20and%20IB%20Course%20Enrollment%20and%20Exam%20Participation%20and%20Performance.pdf

Do you really think that, simply because MCPS has the same curriculum throughout the county, there will be no differences between a class where 35 or 50% score above a 3 on the exam v. a school where 80 or 90% do?

Reasonable people can disagree over how much of a difference it makes and whether there are other advantages to schools where performance is lower. But to continue to argue that there is no difference doesn't make sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Prepare to be disappointed by MCPS regardless of where you end up. It's an inflexible, unthinking bureaucracy, where all attention goes to the lowest common denominator.

We are in one of the best elementary schools in Bethesda and I'm appalled at the the level of education.

Which elementary school would that be?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids have all gone to Whitman so I can’t comment on other schools. Going to Whitman is like going to a top college. Your kids will be around a large group of intellectually curious, studious kids who care deeply about their studies, for the most part. Like any other school, you will have all different types of personalities and behaviors. It will be more competitive for your kid to get into top colleges because they will be compared to their Whitman classmates— so that’s a downside. The jury is out on what I think of the new principal. The old principal was a rock star.

Plus, your kids won't catch a case of poors.