Gentrification shaming makes no sense to me.

[Anonymous]

This argument of "I don't want my kids to live in an all-white neighborhood" is a bit silly. You know you can just teach your kids to be a good person by exemple? Black people are not there as an experience for your child to have. You can afford to buy somewhere else, it doesn't have to be "all-white". My neighborhood here in VA is anything but all-white! There are literally kids from all over the world, what else do you want? I don't blame the gentrifiers for making the most profitable move, because the system is messed up. But don't make silly excuses. And don't expect others to be please by your choice.

[Anonymous]

The truth is, individual choices aren’t going to get us out of the problems of gentrification any more than unfocused recycling is going to fix the environment. We need big structural change. By voting for politicians who will effect change. Just like we need corporate regulation at the macro level to help fix global warming, we need societal change to fix gentrification. A few things off the top of my head are property tax caps for the elderly, first time home buyer programs, resources for schools that don’t have a high earning tax base, etc. In the meantime, you still need a place to live OP. Just be a good neighbor. Try to advocate for all kids at your child’s school. And vote for local politicians who will help the original residents of your community.

[Anonymous]

*individual recycling, not unfocused!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This argument of "I don't want my kids to live in an all-white neighborhood" is a bit silly. You know you can just teach your kids to be a good person by exemple? Black people are not there as an experience for your child to have. You can afford to buy somewhere else, it doesn't have to be "all-white". My neighborhood here in VA is anything but all-white! There are literally kids from all over the world, what else do you want? I don't blame the gentrifiers for making the most profitable move, because the system is messed up. But don't make silly excuses. And don't expect others to be please by your choice.

+ 1

Gentrifiers buy where they do because that's the best they can afford. Nothing wrong with that, given the way real estate works here. Just don't try to dress it up and defend what you're doing by saying you are "seeking diversity." Because we all know that if you could afford it, you'd in the mostly all white, super affluent, urban area too.

[Anonymous]

No just be good neighbors and understand the context in which you bought. Get to know your neighbors, be involved, don’t call the police if someone is loitering.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't be friends with people who criticized my home purchase.

[Anonymous]

This is ridiculous. It's a free country and you can buy a house and live wherever you want. Tell your friends to mind their own business.

[Anonymous]

The big problem with cities is that middle class whites (middle class anyone!) aren’t moving there. Thus you have only poor POC and very rich whites. It exacerbated stereotypes and I think it distorts the perception of both sides. Rich while kids grow up thinking all brown people are poor. And poor brown people grow up thinking no one cares about them and that only white people make it in the world. Poor whites are way out in the rural areas and middle class brown and white people are out living in suburbia.

There’s a whole suburban and rural area out there guys!

[Anonymous]

Stop worrying about gentrification. There will always be arseholes out there with nothing better to do than to criticize people over crap like this.

Just be a good neighbor. That's all you gotta worry about. You're free to live where ever you want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This argument of "I don't want my kids to live in an all-white neighborhood" is a bit silly. You know you can just teach your kids to be a good person by exemple? Black people are not there as an experience for your child to have. You can afford to buy somewhere else, it doesn't have to be "all-white". My neighborhood here in VA is anything but all-white! There are literally kids from all over the world, what else do you want? I don't blame the gentrifiers for making the most profitable move, because the system is messed up. But don't make silly excuses. And don't expect others to be please by your choice.

+ 1

Gentrifiers buy where they do because that's the best they can afford. Nothing wrong with that, given the way real estate works here. Just don't try to dress it up and defend what you're doing by saying you are "seeking diversity." Because we all know that if you could afford it, you'd in the mostly all white, super affluent, urban area too.

Just want to say that the areas you’re calling “all white” are likely very very full of Asians. I know Asians are often forgotten about, but let’s not pretend that dc suburbs are lily white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh? Because you're pushing people out of the neighborhood who possibly lived there for generations and can't afford it anymore (rent or property taxes) due to people like you.

Whether this bothers you or not is one thing but it's absolutely true that this is a real thing going on.

Right - but the question becomes - as an UMC white family - what should you do? I don't want to live surrounded by all white people. I want my kid to have a diverse friend group, racially, ethnically, and socio-economically. While yes, UMC white people moving into historically black neighborhoods pushes black people out. But the alternative is to move to a white-only area, which seems worse to me.

It seems to me that the system here is clearly racist, but that individual families moving to black neighborhoods (as primary residences) aren't doing anything wrong, and may in fact be doing the best they can to fight racism. What would you propose they do instead? Move to Arlington?

PP. The thing is, it's obviously fine and maybe even good for society when it's just one or two white families moving in and integrating the neighborhood (assuming you are decent people and use the neighborhood public schools/don't call the cops on your neighbors for noise or other petty complaints, etc.).

however, it gets to be a big problem without a good solution when it's tons of white families doing it and completely changing the cultural tenor of the area. See, for example: Brooklyn and all its myriad problems related to this issue.

You really don't get why the old families are unhappy about this? It's not just having to see white faces. It's all the restaurants and bars and stores that come in chasing their money, which they can't afford and which raise their rents. It's their schools changing and no longer servicing their community's needs.

There is a lot of literature about this issue, I shouldn't have to tell you this. None of this is a mystery.

Wait, but another comment said that white people moving into a black neighborhood can be more ethical by sending their kids to local schools and changing them for the better. Now I’m even more confused.

PP, again, I think everyone agrees with you and understands the macro issue. But you still haven’t answered the question of specifically what one individual UMC white person’s responsibility is.

I think it's along the lines of: don't move in and start throwing your weight (money/education) around. Don't push the school to start changing how it does things right away. Be a good neighbor. Don't call the cops for noise complaints or "junk" in someone's yard or some other petty reason. Don't call the cops on groups of teenagers "loitering." Don't get scared by seeing a group of black teens hanging out on the corner. Don't call the cops on black people at all.

I'm not at all saying you wouldn't be a good neighbor. But let's be real, many white people have a problem with entitlement due to how they grew up. They will go into a school and start pushing for changes right away that would benefit their special snowflake over other kids who have been there longer. They have a hard time understanding that their needs/issues/concerns shouldn't always get first priority.

+1. This is covered in the podcast Nice White Parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, to the people who think gentrification is not a big deal, where do the poor people go who get pushed out due to rising rents and property taxes?

Do you even know? Do you not care if the new neighborhood is further from their work/friends/family or if it's less safe?

they go somewhere cheaper usually further out. It's the same thing that happens to any renter when the value the house the live in rises (at least cities tend to have rent protection). What is the alternative, to literally create ghettos (in the historic sense) reserved for members of a certain race or class in perpetuity?

People have actually thought about this, actually! One of the "grassroots" solutions happening around DC to try to work in a positive direction is the formation of community trusts that help (for example) Black residents in SE DC come up with down payments to buy in their neighborhoods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The big problem with cities is that middle class whites (middle class anyone!) aren’t moving there. Thus you have only poor POC and very rich whites. It exacerbated stereotypes and I think it distorts the perception of both sides. Rich while kids grow up thinking all brown people are poor. And poor brown people grow up thinking no one cares about them and that only white people make it in the world. Poor whites are way out in the rural areas and middle class brown and white people are out living in suburbia.

There’s a whole suburban and rural area out there guys!

+1, I found this to especially be the case in DC. I live in a neighborhood that’s a rare exception, Shepherd Park—not much if any discernible difference in SES btwn black/brown kids and white kids. But most areas like the Hill are dramatic in the extreme racial differences in SES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I recently bought a place in Columbia Heights and multiple liberal friends of mine have called me a gentrifier.

I don’t understand why buying the best house we could afford is somehow unethical. Should we look at white only neighborhoods? I mean, truly, what are people proposing? Even if we wanted to self segregate (we don’t), we couldn’t afford those super white parts of DC.

I truly don’t understand... what are these anti gentrification people suggesting homebuyers do? By the way, it is ONLY our White friends who care. None of our POC friends have said anything negative at all.

Friends? These people sound like jerks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh? Because you're pushing people out of the neighborhood who possibly lived there for generations and can't afford it anymore (rent or property taxes) due to people like you.

Whether this bothers you or not is one thing but it's absolutely true that this is a real thing going on.

Right - but the question becomes - as an UMC white family - what should you do? I don't want to live surrounded by all white people. I want my kid to have a diverse friend group, racially, ethnically, and socio-economically. While yes, UMC white people moving into historically black neighborhoods pushes black people out. But the alternative is to move to a white-only area, which seems worse to me.

It seems to me that the system here is clearly racist, but that individual families moving to black neighborhoods (as primary residences) aren't doing anything wrong, and may in fact be doing the best they can to fight racism. What would you propose they do instead? Move to Arlington?

PP. The thing is, it's obviously fine and maybe even good for society when it's just one or two white families moving in and integrating the neighborhood (assuming you are decent people and use the neighborhood public schools/don't call the cops on your neighbors for noise or other petty complaints, etc.).

however, it gets to be a big problem without a good solution when it's tons of white families doing it and completely changing the cultural tenor of the area. See, for example: Brooklyn and all its myriad problems related to this issue.

You really don't get why the old families are unhappy about this? It's not just having to see white faces. It's all the restaurants and bars and stores that come in chasing their money, which they can't afford and which raise their rents. It's their schools changing and no longer servicing their community's needs.

There is a lot of literature about this issue, I shouldn't have to tell you this. None of this is a mystery.

Wait, but another comment said that white people moving into a black neighborhood can be more ethical by sending their kids to local schools and changing them for the better. Now I’m even more confused.

PP, again, I think everyone agrees with you and understands the macro issue. But you still haven’t answered the question of specifically what one individual UMC white person’s responsibility is.

I think it's along the lines of: don't move in and start throwing your weight (money/education) around. Don't push the school to start changing how it does things right away. Be a good neighbor. Don't call the cops for noise complaints or "junk" in someone's yard or some other petty reason. Don't call the cops on groups of teenagers "loitering." Don't get scared by seeing a group of black teens hanging out on the corner. Don't call the cops on black people at all.

I'm not at all saying you wouldn't be a good neighbor. But let's be real, many white people have a problem with entitlement due to how they grew up. They will go into a school and start pushing for changes right away that would benefit their special snowflake over other kids who have been there longer. They have a hard time understanding that their needs/issues/concerns shouldn't always get first priority.

This is part of the problem - these arguments are completely incoherent.

Don't push the school to change? For decades DCPS were among the worst in the country. Someone shouldn't seek to change that because they are white? And that change definitely shouldn't benefit their own kid?

If you see someone committing a crime, you shouldn't call the cops because they are black? That's preposterous.