Massive Jump in Ivy League ED Applications

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let’s get ready to see Harvard acceptance rate fall below 1% this year. Harvard will say all applicants got fair, full considerations...

Isn’t that just a matter of math? There’s only so many beds in the dorms.

I fail to see on this particular point of test optional exactly what the fuss is about. It was a binary choice: tests or no tests. How would mandating tests have been better?

Once that decision was made, of course plenty of kids with good grades would apply because there is one less reason not to. I’ve yet to hear a plausible solution to the application “problem” or even an explanation of why the increase in applications is a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s get ready to see Harvard acceptance rate fall below 1% this year. Harvard will say all applicants got fair, full considerations...

Isn’t that just a matter of math? There’s only so many beds in the dorms.

I fail to see on this particular point of test optional exactly what the fuss is about. It was a binary choice: tests or no tests. How would mandating tests have been better?

Once that decision was made, of course plenty of kids with good grades would apply because there is one less reason not to. I’ve yet to hear a plausible solution to the application “problem” or even an explanation of why the increase in applications is a problem.

You are correct; it isn't a problem, and no one who complains about it offers a solution. People just like to bitch about elite colleges for some reason. It's likely driven by bitterness, but since we don't know the complainers personally we can't know for sure.

+1 to you for being rational!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid made a huge mistake not applying ED, but did EA to 7 schools and deferred at every single one. ED admittance rates are way up at my kid's school, but EA is not doing well. Visited one college campus before coronavirus, so has no idea where he wants to go and his father is insisting he will be able to get into a T20 school that we have a very close connection to (including 7+figure donations), but doesn't have ED and my kid is not qualified to get into. Dad refuses to allow ED2, even though that is his best chance at one of these more mid-tier schools, which are a better fit for my son. I fear my husband is steering him toward some very bad decisions!

It seems like the 7+ figure donations would be your ticket...maybe no need to worry so much?

Because of those donations, a few economically stressed families can afford to send their kids to the school. Let's keep in mind this fact while judging if a donor also benefits from his/her donations.

If you’re talking HYP, their endowments are so large that even a million is essentially meaningless

It's not HYP and it is a school that needs the money. We are full-pay (that's probably obvious--but only because of the big-donor relative). They did defer his EA app, so yes, we're nervous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You think ED, REA application increase is bad? Wait until RD application result comes out. It’s going to be crazy. We might see Ivy having 1% acceptance rate. How much time do admission officers spend to evaluate each student? You might as well replace admission officers with lottery, or computer algorithms, set desired outcomes (percentage of URM, first generation, financial aid needs etc). Did you see Amherst admission committee YouTube video? It was pathetic how they determine who to admit.

They do this already. MIT doesn't evaluate applications below a certain percentile by their rubric. That percentile likely changes by race too (even though they'd never admit it).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid made a huge mistake not applying ED, but did EA to 7 schools and deferred at every single one. ED admittance rates are way up at my kid's school, but EA is not doing well. Visited one college campus before coronavirus, so has no idea where he wants to go and his father is insisting he will be able to get into a T20 school that we have a very close connection to (including 7+figure donations), but doesn't have ED and my kid is not qualified to get into. Dad refuses to allow ED2, even though that is his best chance at one of these more mid-tier schools, which are a better fit for my son. I fear my husband is steering him toward some very bad decisions!

It seems like the 7+ figure donations would be your ticket...maybe no need to worry so much?

Because of those donations, a few economically stressed families can afford to send their kids to the school. Let's keep in mind this fact while judging if a donor also benefits from his/her donations.

If you’re talking HYP, their endowments are so large that even a million is essentially meaningless

It's not HYP and it is a school that needs the money. We are full-pay (that's probably obvious--but only because of the big-donor relative). They did defer his EA app, so yes, we're nervous.

What did the development office say when you spoke to them about your kid?

[Anonymous]

What is the Amherst video?

Personally we've decided we are opting out of this arms race. My DH who is very successful went to community college and not even right away after HS. I am glad that URMs and other folks who haven't historically had chances getting these slots, and I hope that continues.

[Anonymous]

The problem with massive increase in applications and limited objective criteria is that acceptances depend on luck and subjective evaluations (bias, institutional needs) of admission readers and committees. If high school kids ask how they can get into Ivy or top schools, what are counselors going to say? Writing great essays? Colleges need to provide better defined admission pathways to students instead of just saying "Good luck". Most kids applying for these schools have As and do similar ECs. I am not bitter. My kids are already in Ivys. I support increasing diversity as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Plenty of reasons, but doesn't hurt to lock in as many tuition payers (er... applicants) as possible when there are few drawbacks. That, plus more ED applicants than ever... Makes sense to me. Outcome is more or less the same as any other year, just skewed in terms of initial data.

Harvard took 150 less this year - that doesn’t seem to square with your thesis.

They have EA, not ED.

Harvard also deferred like 80% of applications to RD and only rejected 10%. By comparison, Brown deferred 30% but rejected like 53%.

Harvard has REA/SCEA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem with massive increase in applications and limited objective criteria is that acceptances depend on luck and subjective evaluations (bias, institutional needs) of admission readers and committees. If high school kids ask how they can get into Ivy or top schools, what are counselors going to say? Writing great essays? Colleges need to provide better defined admission pathways to students instead of just saying "Good luck". Most kids applying for these schools have As and do similar ECs. I am not bitter. My kids are already in Ivys. I support increasing diversity as well.

+1. Increased uncertainty. This increase in uncertainty isn't just at top 20 schools - this goes much, much further down in ranking, more like top 100.

Making college lists was already challenging. That challenge has significantly increased due to the uncertainty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, that’s insane. I wonder why?

This is actually normal and expected.

No international students means the standard of student admitted will be (and likely was last year) way lower.

And then test optional this year means kids who know they would never have had a chance to get in now feel like they have a chance because the standard of student will be much lower again.

The surprising and insane thing would be if applications didn't go up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, that’s insane. I wonder why?

This is actually normal and expected.

No international students means the standard of student admitted will be (and likely was last year) way lower.

And then test optional this year means kids who know they would never have had a chance to get in now feel like they have a chance because the standard of student will be much lower again.

The surprising and insane thing would be if applications didn't go up.

Somewhere I read that international apps ended up increasing, though I wish I had a link (might have been a specific school)

[Anonymous]

If Harvard next year gets rid of GPA requirement and transcripts, it can expect the applicants to hit a million. Almost every senior may have a shot. Why not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s get ready to see Harvard acceptance rate fall below 1% this year. Harvard will say all applicants got fair, full considerations...

Isn’t that just a matter of math? There’s only so many beds in the dorms.

I fail to see on this particular point of test optional exactly what the fuss is about. It was a binary choice: tests or no tests. How would mandating tests have been better?

Once that decision was made, of course plenty of kids with good grades would apply because there is one less reason not to. I’ve yet to hear a plausible solution to the application “problem” or even an explanation of why the increase in applications is a problem.

You are correct; it isn't a problem, and no one who complains about it offers a solution. People just like to bitch about elite colleges for some reason. It's likely driven by bitterness, but since we don't know the complainers personally we can't know for sure.

+1 to you for being rational!

It’s not a problem. There are just a lot of people who have invested a lot of time and $$ into getting their kid’s test scores up, and they’re frustrated that it doesn’t matter as much, anymore. See the thread about kids with relatively low gpas and high test scores.

I’m actually sympathetic — I have a Junior, and it’s hard to get him motivated to study for the tests. But who knows what the situation will be for the class of 2021? Will test scores matter more or even less? No one knows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem with massive increase in applications and limited objective criteria is that acceptances depend on luck and subjective evaluations (bias, institutional needs) of admission readers and committees. If high school kids ask how they can get into Ivy or top schools, what are counselors going to say? Writing great essays? Colleges need to provide better defined admission pathways to students instead of just saying "Good luck". Most kids applying for these schools have As and do similar ECs. I am not bitter. My kids are already in Ivys. I support increasing diversity as well.

But the increased applications aren’t what the cause of limited objective criteria. The process has been opaque for years. That can be criticized but it’s not related to the application numbers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If Harvard next year gets rid of GPA requirement and transcripts, it can expect the applicants to hit a million. Almost every senior may have a shot. Why not?

Now it can be told: They will do anything they can with one sole objective: keeping your kid out.

That's what all this is all about: not about the virus, or leveling the playing field, or getting the mix of kids they want...

...it's all done to keep your - kid - out.

So your ire and hyperbole are totally warranted and you should continue.