Referees: Ask Us Anything

[Anonymous]

Why only one ball in play at a time? 22 players and only one ball is boring especially for keepers. With three balls in play at a time both keepers would be kept busy and mid-fielders as well.

[Anonymous]

What do you think of this?
https://www.gofundme.com/f/injured-soccer-referee-referee-assault?utm_source=customer&utm_medium=copy_link&utm_campaign=p_cf+share-flow-1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do referees ref Hispanic kids differently than the other kids?

Because the kids are different. You just can't ref a hispanic kid the same way you can ref a white kid.

We actually have a different policy for black kids, chinese kids, and indian kids too. We save the most stringent rules for Vikings though - otherwise the game turns into some sort of medieval pillaging contest.

[Anonymous]

Are they overage?

[Anonymous]

Another Ref here:

1. Reminder that most of us who Ref in the DMV are on multiple assignor lists. So the idea that leagues like NCLS or EDP or CCL have markedly different refs isn't true. HOWEVER, DA/GA/ECNL refs are generally better because either the assignor lets them know of availability early, or when multiple refs sign up, the assignor makes sure to assign the better refs. Frankly, when I have done AR for ECNL/DA, I have found the parents/players to be better about knowing the LotG, and I know I felt like I needed to be at my best as well.

2. Overweight men - in general, bad parents and coaches have made reffing so unpalatable that the only people willing to do it are men for whom the money is not the most important aspect.

3. There are absolutely some bad refs in the DMV. I have worked with them, and it's not enjoyable. But the reality is, every weekend we'll get a 2:00 am email from Tarey or another assignor with a dozen games that still need an AR or even a CR. So parents being crappy to refs means there is a ref shortage, which means the assignors have no choice but to give games to refs who everyone knows aren't great. Thing is, even the crappy refs know the LotG better than the vast vast vast majority of parents. But if you scare off the kids learning to ref, then you are left with weak refs. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do referees ref Hispanic kids differently than the other kids?

Because the kids are different. You just can't ref a hispanic kid the same way you can ref a white kid.

We actually have a different policy for black kids, chinese kids, and indian kids too. We save the most stringent rules for Vikings though - otherwise the game turns into some sort of medieval pillaging contest.

I was going to have a fit until I realized it was sarcasm - well played

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do referees ref Hispanic kids differently than the other kids?

Because the kids are different. You just can't ref a hispanic kid the same way you can ref a white kid.

We actually have a different policy for black kids, chinese kids, and indian kids too. We save the most stringent rules for Vikings though - otherwise the game turns into some sort of medieval pillaging contest.

I was going to have a fit until I realized it was sarcasm - well played

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another Ref here:

1. Reminder that most of us who Ref in the DMV are on multiple assignor lists. So the idea that leagues like NCLS or EDP or CCL have markedly different refs isn't true. HOWEVER, DA/GA/ECNL refs are generally better because either the assignor lets them know of availability early, or when multiple refs sign up, the assignor makes sure to assign the better refs. Frankly, when I have done AR for ECNL/DA, I have found the parents/players to be better about knowing the LotG, and I know I felt like I needed to be at my best as well.

2. Overweight men - in general, bad parents and coaches have made reffing so unpalatable that the only people willing to do it are men for whom the money is not the most important aspect.

3. There are absolutely some bad refs in the DMV. I have worked with them, and it's not enjoyable. But the reality is, every weekend we'll get a 2:00 am email from Tarey or another assignor with a dozen games that still need an AR or even a CR. So parents being crappy to refs means there is a ref shortage, which means the assignors have no choice but to give games to refs who everyone knows aren't great. Thing is, even the crappy refs know the LotG better than the vast vast vast majority of parents. But if you scare off the kids learning to ref, then you are left with weak refs. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

I agree. It is not enjoyable working with bad referees. When the center is missing fouls, the ARs hear it from the parents. And here is the thing that a lot of parents don't understand. The center referee is in charge. Before each game, the referees meet and the center gives some instructions. Some say...call what you see. Some say...do not call a foul unless I feel down and I'm laying 340 yards from the play. Some say only call a foul if I make eye contact with you and make a motion that I'm looking for help. etc etc etc. So there are times I may see something that I might call a foul but the center is closer to the play than I am. I'm not raising my flag. There might be a handball that I would or wouldn't have called. The center is right there. I'm not raising my flag. However, I'm the one hearing it from all the parents...or the coach. One day the center told me...they are just kids. I'm not calling foul throws. I'll won't work with him. There are referees that can't run and don't get back on break aways, etc. I don't work with them anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another Ref here:

1. Reminder that most of us who Ref in the DMV are on multiple assignor lists. So the idea that leagues like NCLS or EDP or CCL have markedly different refs isn't true. HOWEVER, DA/GA/ECNL refs are generally better because either the assignor lets them know of availability early, or when multiple refs sign up, the assignor makes sure to assign the better refs. Frankly, when I have done AR for ECNL/DA, I have found the parents/players to be better about knowing the LotG, and I know I felt like I needed to be at my best as well.

2. Overweight men - in general, bad parents and coaches have made reffing so unpalatable that the only people willing to do it are men for whom the money is not the most important aspect.

3. There are absolutely some bad refs in the DMV. I have worked with them, and it's not enjoyable. But the reality is, every weekend we'll get a 2:00 am email from Tarey or another assignor with a dozen games that still need an AR or even a CR. So parents being crappy to refs means there is a ref shortage, which means the assignors have no choice but to give games to refs who everyone knows aren't great. Thing is, even the crappy refs know the LotG better than the vast vast vast majority of parents. But if you scare off the kids learning to ref, then you are left with weak refs. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

I agree. It is not enjoyable working with bad referees. When the center is missing fouls, the ARs hear it from the parents. And here is the thing that a lot of parents don't understand. The center referee is in charge. Before each game, the referees meet and the center gives some instructions. Some say...call what you see. Some say...do not call a foul unless I feel down and I'm laying 340 yards from the play. Some say only call a foul if I make eye contact with you and make a motion that I'm looking for help. etc etc etc. So there are times I may see something that I might call a foul but the center is closer to the play than I am. I'm not raising my flag. There might be a handball that I would or wouldn't have called. The center is right there. I'm not raising my flag. However, I'm the one hearing it from all the parents...or the coach. One day the center told me...they are just kids. I'm not calling foul throws. I'll won't work with him. There are referees that can't run and don't get back on break aways, etc. I don't work with them anymore.

A thousand times this! if you have a CR that decides not to call something, there's really nothing an AR can do, so yelling at the AR is pointless. I was AR for a game where a kid 100% intentionally threw a throw-in at the face of an opposing player at close range. Kid goes down, eye is swelling almost instantly. By Law, it's a straight Red (Law 12, and supplemental information under Advice at 15.8). There's no question about the call, and yet the CR trots over to me and says "(kid) didn't mean it". No card, not even a caution. The parent whose kid got assaulted let me have it for much of the rest of the game and I just had to take it. I will never work with that CR again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why only one ball in play at a time? 22 players and only one ball is boring especially for keepers. With three balls in play at a time both keepers would be kept busy and mid-fielders as well.

This is a problem with many sports. Back in the day it was because people could afford to slaughter one pig. That way you played the game with its bladder and then ate the rest of the pig after the game. These days I see no reason not to eat more pigs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another Ref here:

1. Reminder that most of us who Ref in the DMV are on multiple assignor lists. So the idea that leagues like NCLS or EDP or CCL have markedly different refs isn't true. HOWEVER, DA/GA/ECNL refs are generally better because either the assignor lets them know of availability early, or when multiple refs sign up, the assignor makes sure to assign the better refs. Frankly, when I have done AR for ECNL/DA, I have found the parents/players to be better about knowing the LotG, and I know I felt like I needed to be at my best as well.

2. Overweight men - in general, bad parents and coaches have made reffing so unpalatable that the only people willing to do it are men for whom the money is not the most important aspect.

3. There are absolutely some bad refs in the DMV. I have worked with them, and it's not enjoyable. But the reality is, every weekend we'll get a 2:00 am email from Tarey or another assignor with a dozen games that still need an AR or even a CR. So parents being crappy to refs means there is a ref shortage, which means the assignors have no choice but to give games to refs who everyone knows aren't great. Thing is, even the crappy refs know the LotG better than the vast vast vast majority of parents. But if you scare off the kids learning to ref, then you are left with weak refs. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

I agree. It is not enjoyable working with bad referees. When the center is missing fouls, the ARs hear it from the parents. And here is the thing that a lot of parents don't understand. The center referee is in charge. Before each game, the referees meet and the center gives some instructions. Some say...call what you see. Some say...do not call a foul unless I feel down and I'm laying 340 yards from the play. Some say only call a foul if I make eye contact with you and make a motion that I'm looking for help. etc etc etc. So there are times I may see something that I might call a foul but the center is closer to the play than I am. I'm not raising my flag. There might be a handball that I would or wouldn't have called. The center is right there. I'm not raising my flag. However, I'm the one hearing it from all the parents...or the coach. One day the center told me...they are just kids. I'm not calling foul throws. I'll won't work with him. There are referees that can't run and don't get back on break aways, etc. I don't work with them anymore.

A thousand times this! if you have a CR that decides not to call something, there's really nothing an AR can do, so yelling at the AR is pointless. I was AR for a game where a kid 100% intentionally threw a throw-in at the face of an opposing player at close range. Kid goes down, eye is swelling almost instantly. By Law, it's a straight Red (Law 12, and supplemental information under Advice at 15.8). There's no question about the call, and yet the CR trots over to me and says "(kid) didn't mean it". No card, not even a caution. The parent whose kid got assaulted let me have it for much of the rest of the game and I just had to take it. I will never work with that CR again.

You’re at fault because yes you can alter that decision. You should’ve walked away. Did you bring it up to the assignor? Exactly.

[Anonymous]

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do referees ref Hispanic kids differently than the other kids?

Btw ... we did not have this problem in EDP.

Just luck. Same refs in NCSL, CCL, NPL, etc as EDP. You can go get certified and the following week center ref a U16 EDP game.

Not “just luck” it was an issue at many, many games. I documented them at the time snd sent complaints.

I think maybe the training is lacking somewhere. You seem to have little understanding of the game.

Then go get certified is weak sauce. My 2 sons are certified and it’s an issue.

Maybe they only understand long ball soccer and not true possession.

Are you the OP?

No, I'm the OP.

You may see some of the same refs because of geography. I have 3-4 venues that are nearby.

But there's no inherent "understanding of the game" that's different if a game is reffed in Centreville instead of Annandale. We all get the same training. We all get the same desperate emails from ref assignors. If your sons sign up with those assignors, they'll get the emails as well. Depending on their age, they may not be eligible for every open game, but if they want to work this weekend, they can. I count more than 40 openings on Sunday.

I'm trying to wrap my head around how a ref would call things differently if that ref "only understood long ball soccer."

If you take the same meds as the guy asking the question I think you will find the task of wrapping your head much easier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another Ref here:

1. Reminder that most of us who Ref in the DMV are on multiple assignor lists. So the idea that leagues like NCLS or EDP or CCL have markedly different refs isn't true. HOWEVER, DA/GA/ECNL refs are generally better because either the assignor lets them know of availability early, or when multiple refs sign up, the assignor makes sure to assign the better refs. Frankly, when I have done AR for ECNL/DA, I have found the parents/players to be better about knowing the LotG, and I know I felt like I needed to be at my best as well.

2. Overweight men - in general, bad parents and coaches have made reffing so unpalatable that the only people willing to do it are men for whom the money is not the most important aspect.

3. There are absolutely some bad refs in the DMV. I have worked with them, and it's not enjoyable. But the reality is, every weekend we'll get a 2:00 am email from Tarey or another assignor with a dozen games that still need an AR or even a CR. So parents being crappy to refs means there is a ref shortage, which means the assignors have no choice but to give games to refs who everyone knows aren't great. Thing is, even the crappy refs know the LotG better than the vast vast vast majority of parents. But if you scare off the kids learning to ref, then you are left with weak refs. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

I agree. It is not enjoyable working with bad referees. When the center is missing fouls, the ARs hear it from the parents. And here is the thing that a lot of parents don't understand. The center referee is in charge. Before each game, the referees meet and the center gives some instructions. Some say...call what you see. Some say...do not call a foul unless I feel down and I'm laying 340 yards from the play. Some say only call a foul if I make eye contact with you and make a motion that I'm looking for help. etc etc etc. So there are times I may see something that I might call a foul but the center is closer to the play than I am. I'm not raising my flag. There might be a handball that I would or wouldn't have called. The center is right there. I'm not raising my flag. However, I'm the one hearing it from all the parents...or the coach. One day the center told me...they are just kids. I'm not calling foul throws. I'll won't work with him. There are referees that can't run and don't get back on break aways, etc. I don't work with them anymore.

A thousand times this! if you have a CR that decides not to call something, there's really nothing an AR can do, so yelling at the AR is pointless. I was AR for a game where a kid 100% intentionally threw a throw-in at the face of an opposing player at close range. Kid goes down, eye is swelling almost instantly. By Law, it's a straight Red (Law 12, and supplemental information under Advice at 15.8). There's no question about the call, and yet the CR trots over to me and says "(kid) didn't mean it". No card, not even a caution. The parent whose kid got assaulted let me have it for much of the rest of the game and I just had to take it. I will never work with that CR again.

You’re at fault because yes you can alter that decision. You should’ve walked away. Did you bring it up to the assignor? Exactly.

No, you can't "walk away". But yes, I did write it up; submitted to the Assignor and I spoke to the coach afterward and said he should speak to their assignor liaison about it and let her know I would be filing. But because of the Ref shortage, I know that CR is still reffing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do referees ref Hispanic kids differently than the other kids?

Because the kids are different. You just can't ref a hispanic kid the same way you can ref a white kid.

We actually have a different policy for black kids, chinese kids, and indian kids too. We save the most stringent rules for Vikings though - otherwise the game turns into some sort of medieval pillaging contest.

Oh are your little feelings hurt.

You must be a ref.

[Anonymous]

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do referees ref Hispanic kids differently than the other kids?

Btw ... we did not have this problem in EDP.

Just luck. Same refs in NCSL, CCL, NPL, etc as EDP. You can go get certified and the following week center ref a U16 EDP game.

then just luck. The old guy with the crazy white hair who refused to move more then 5 yards from midfield was a fixture in NCSL- haven't seen him yet in EDP

Exactly. I just figure EDP had different training for style.

There's no league-specific training. We're certified by U.S. Soccer.

(OK, Vienna's rec league requires a mentor meeting before your first game. Nothing new covered.)

I'm checking the list of available games from one (1) assignor: NCSL, CCL, DC United Academy (not sure if it's a league game or a friendly), Arlington's high school rec league, VSA's rec league, some rec leagues doing their own thing with SFL down, ECNL (that surprises me), and yes, EDP.

That assignor is also responsible for the Hunt Country Fall Classic and did the assignments for Battleground.

A different assignor did the WAGS Tournament and would've done the Herndon All-Star tournament if it hadn't been canceled. That assignor also has some CCL and EDP.

Want to know one really weird thing about EDP? While most payments are handled by a centralized payment management system, some EDP games pay cash on the field.

So if you see a ref taking a handout, no, that's not a bribe!

Okay, so why are Hispanic kids treated differently?