Why does JHU have so low name recognition / lay prestige?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is a recovering JHU graduate. Her first year got off to a bang with a roommate from South Korea who was so ashamed of her pigeon English that she only spoke to other Asians. Try taking an advanced math class at JHU with a classroom "teacher" whose first language was English.

I'm assuming that was supposed to read "not English"? So did your daughter stick with the racism she learned at home, or did she discover the joy of knowing diverse groups of people?

I don't think it's racist to point out that having a math TA who doesn't speak or understand English well is frustrating, and it was a problem at my college too. It's a reasonable expectation that your teachers be able to comprehend and communicate with students.

I'm sympathetic, because when I TA'd at Hopkins I had several ESL students in my class who weren't able to read or write English at a proficient level. It was hard to decode the meaning of their written work, and they couldn't follow our class discussions or read the texts (it was a literature class). I gave them OK grades, making huge allowances for their language skills, because I felt like they were trying to the extent possible, but it felt unfair for them to be in my class without at least a basic competency in English.

Serious question. So how did such students get through the reading & writing sections of the SAT to score well enough to be admitted to a school like JHU? Supposedly those are the parts one can't improve much through prep? Or is full-pay that impactful for admission despite the score?

DP:
If they are coming from Asia they have juked SAT and TOEFL scores. Also JHU turns a blind eye to full pay foreigners - that was the case in my JHU grad school program. They will give them continuing English courses, writing tutors, etc.

The European classmates had a better command of English grammar than most American students!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it's in a crappy area. I think it's a great school, but JHU and Baltimore need to work on cleaning that mess up.

The hospital and medical school are in a crappy area. The undergrad campus is in Charles Village, With abuts Guilford and Roland Park. It isn’t the least bit crappy.

Not knowing what they are talking about never stops anyone on dcum.

Those neighborhoods are actually north of the undergrad campus. They are much safer and more suburban than "Homewood," which is where students live and walk around all hours of the day and night. And you know it.

I think you are trying to mislead people who have not been there.

Hi,

I do not want to hijack the thread but I do not know Baltimore. My DD and I visited Loyola last week and had a good visit and my general sense was that the neighborhood surrounding the school was quite nice.

I came back and told a colleague that we visited and he cautioned that I should have driven through the neighborhood to the East as that neighborhood was what he called “sketchy” - his words not mine. Can you please share your thoughts ? I subsequently went online and found articles talking about armed robberies on the Loyola campus. Granted they were from a couple of years ago but I really have no frame of reference.

DD and I had a nice time in Baltimore but I don’t want to be naive.

Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is a recovering JHU graduate. Her first year got off to a bang with a roommate from South Korea who was so ashamed of her pigeon English that she only spoke to other Asians. Try taking an advanced math class at JHU with a classroom "teacher" whose first language was English.

I'm assuming that was supposed to read "not English"? So did your daughter stick with the racism she learned at home, or did she discover the joy of knowing diverse groups of people?

I don't think it's racist to point out that having a math TA who doesn't speak or understand English well is frustrating, and it was a problem at my college too. It's a reasonable expectation that your teachers be able to comprehend and communicate with students.

I'm sympathetic, because when I TA'd at Hopkins I had several ESL students in my class who weren't able to read or write English at a proficient level. It was hard to decode the meaning of their written work, and they couldn't follow our class discussions or read the texts (it was a literature class). I gave them OK grades, making huge allowances for their language skills, because I felt like they were trying to the extent possible, but it felt unfair for them to be in my class without at least a basic competency in English.

Lordy lord! There’s an entire industry of people taking those overseas TOEFL and SAT scores.
Serious question. So how did such students get through the reading & writing sections of the SAT to score well enough to be admitted to a school like JHU? Supposedly those are the parts one can't improve much through prep? Or is full-pay that impactful for admission despite the score?

[Anonymous]

This thread has gotten terribly off track. The OP asked why JHU has low name recognition/prestige. Issues of the undergraduate climate, the surrounding neighborhood, etc. are tangential. I dispute the premise of the thread that it has low prestige. Of course, my household has a total of three degrees from JHU.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread has gotten terribly off track. The OP asked why JHU has low name recognition/prestige. Issues of the undergraduate climate, the surrounding neighborhood, etc. are tangential. I dispute the premise of the thread that it has low prestige. Of course, my household has a total of three degrees from JHU.

Yeah, that often happens when you crowdsource questions.

The people take your topic where they will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it's in a crappy area. I think it's a great school, but JHU and Baltimore need to work on cleaning that mess up.

The hospital and medical school are in a crappy area. The undergrad campus is in Charles Village, With abuts Guilford and Roland Park. It isn’t the least bit crappy.

Not knowing what they are talking about never stops anyone on dcum.

Those neighborhoods are actually north of the undergrad campus. They are much safer and more suburban than "Homewood," which is where students live and walk around all hours of the day and night. And you know it.

I think you are trying to mislead people who have not been there.

Hi,

I do not want to hijack the thread but I do not know Baltimore. My DD and I visited Loyola last week and had a good visit and my general sense was that the neighborhood surrounding the school was quite nice.

I came back and told a colleague that we visited and he cautioned that I should have driven through the neighborhood to the East as that neighborhood was what he called “sketchy” - his words not mine. Can you please share your thoughts ? I subsequently went online and found articles talking about armed robberies on the Loyola campus. Granted they were from a couple of years ago but I really have no frame of reference.

DD and I had a nice time in Baltimore but I don’t want to be naive.

Thank you.

So my info is probably out of date by about 20 years, but back then the consensus was that area west of Greenmount Ave was OK and the area east of Greenmount Ave wasn't. Although I used to walk over there for a farmer's market and that was fine. Baltimore is weird because very fancy neighborhoods (ie, Guilford) abut pretty sketchy neighborhoods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think JHU has a great brand among intellectual people. What it’s missing is sports. Lacrosse doesn’t have the same wide recognition as football or basketball.

Hopkins has had tons of success in D3 swimming, baseball and football among others. There are a large number of student athletes. If you want a nationally ranked football program, obviously better to go to USC or Michigan.

I think that schools need a nationally/regionally ranked popular sport (football, basketball) to have broad name recognition with the public. I think the public at large forms opinions of schools with their sports reputation as the leading factor. Which of course is irrelevant to the educational caliber of a school. Sad but true, in my experience.

Among people who have looked at colleges and have a sense of their prestige, people know that JHU is a highly ranked school.

[Anonymous]

It’s a lot of work. Not too fun compared to other schools

[Anonymous]

My daughter goes to a school that doesn't have D1 sports, yet still has a very vibrant culture with students who are social and like to have fun. (WUSTL.) I don't think the crappy undergraduate culture of JHU is something you can pin on lack of sports...it's just a JHU thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread has gotten terribly off track. The OP asked why JHU has low name recognition/prestige. Issues of the undergraduate climate, the surrounding neighborhood, etc. are tangential. I dispute the premise of the thread that it has low prestige. Of course, my household has a total of three degrees from JHU.

+1. I also dispute the premise of low prestige. I only have one (graduate) degree from Hopkins. I agree that marketing is a huge reason there may be misperceptions around branding. Their brand is so strong academically, it sells itself, and their admin just does not invest the same way other prestigious universities do in how they recruit. Also the culture there is different; its based in intelligence and genius everywhere, but there is a humility that permeates through a lot of the staff and the students. Hopkins is a name all of the world trusts right now for an accurate picture of coronavirus, and for good reason. They are a reputable, trustworthy, and rigorously academic school that has always prioritized credible research and progressive cultural support for the right reasons. They founded their business school because of the 08 financial crisis to create highly regarded MBAs that would conduct business with "humanity in mind".

They aren't flashy. Some of us like it that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is a recovering JHU graduate. Her first year got off to a bang with a roommate from South Korea who was so ashamed of her pigeon English that she only spoke to other Asians. Try taking an advanced math class at JHU with a classroom "teacher" whose first language was English.

I'm assuming that was supposed to read "not English"? So did your daughter stick with the racism she learned at home, or did she discover the joy of knowing diverse groups of people?

I don't think it's racist to point out that having a math TA who doesn't speak or understand English well is frustrating, and it was a problem at my college too. It's a reasonable expectation that your teachers be able to comprehend and communicate with students.

I'm sympathetic, because when I TA'd at Hopkins I had several ESL students in my class who weren't able to read or write English at a proficient level. It was hard to decode the meaning of their written work, and they couldn't follow our class discussions or read the texts (it was a literature class). I gave them OK grades, making huge allowances for their language skills, because I felt like they were trying to the extent possible, but it felt unfair for them to be in my class without at least a basic competency in English.

Serious question. So how did such students get through the reading & writing sections of the SAT to score well enough to be admitted to a school like JHU? Supposedly those are the parts one can't improve much through prep? Or is full-pay that impactful for admission despite the score?

DP:
If they are coming from Asia they have juked SAT and TOEFL scores. Also JHU turns a blind eye to full pay foreigners - that was the case in my JHU grad school program. They will give them continuing English courses, writing tutors, etc.

The European classmates had a better command of English grammar than most American students!

NP: I taught at JHU (undergrads and grad students). Unfortunately, this was my experience too. Many foreign students, especially from Asia, were not proficient in English even though their TOEFL scores indicated that they were. My old department would also admit full pay grad students with low TOEFL scores. I complained and ranked applicants lower but got a lot of pushback from the chair to admit anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is a recovering JHU graduate. Her first year got off to a bang with a roommate from South Korea who was so ashamed of her pigeon English that she only spoke to other Asians. Try taking an advanced math class at JHU with a classroom "teacher" whose first language was English.

I'm assuming that was supposed to read "not English"? So did your daughter stick with the racism she learned at home, or did she discover the joy of knowing diverse groups of people?

I don't think it's racist to point out that having a math TA who doesn't speak or understand English well is frustrating, and it was a problem at my college too. It's a reasonable expectation that your teachers be able to comprehend and communicate with students.

I'm sympathetic, because when I TA'd at Hopkins I had several ESL students in my class who weren't able to read or write English at a proficient level. It was hard to decode the meaning of their written work, and they couldn't follow our class discussions or read the texts (it was a literature class). I gave them OK grades, making huge allowances for their language skills, because I felt like they were trying to the extent possible, but it felt unfair for them to be in my class without at least a basic competency in English.

Serious question. So how did such students get through the reading & writing sections of the SAT to score well enough to be admitted to a school like JHU? Supposedly those are the parts one can't improve much through prep? Or is full-pay that impactful for admission despite the score?

DP:
If they are coming from Asia they have juked SAT and TOEFL scores. Also JHU turns a blind eye to full pay foreigners - that was the case in my JHU grad school program. They will give them continuing English courses, writing tutors, etc.

The European classmates had a better command of English grammar than most American students!

NP: I taught at JHU (undergrads and grad students). Unfortunately, this was my experience too. Many foreign students, especially from Asia, were not proficient in English even though their TOEFL scores indicated that they were. My old department would also admit full pay grad students with low TOEFL scores. I complained and ranked applicants lower but got a lot of pushback from the chair to admit anyway.

Another DP graduate student. I agree with this, and I think this is the band-aid they use for a lack of strong recruitment/marketing otherwise. Only disappointing aspect I have experienced with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is a recovering JHU graduate. Her first year got off to a bang with a roommate from South Korea who was so ashamed of her pigeon English that she only spoke to other Asians. Try taking an advanced math class at JHU with a classroom "teacher" whose first language was English.

I'm assuming that was supposed to read "not English"? So did your daughter stick with the racism she learned at home, or did she discover the joy of knowing diverse groups of people?

I don't think it's racist to point out that having a math TA who doesn't speak or understand English well is frustrating, and it was a problem at my college too. It's a reasonable expectation that your teachers be able to comprehend and communicate with students.

I'm sympathetic, because when I TA'd at Hopkins I had several ESL students in my class who weren't able to read or write English at a proficient level. It was hard to decode the meaning of their written work, and they couldn't follow our class discussions or read the texts (it was a literature class). I gave them OK grades, making huge allowances for their language skills, because I felt like they were trying to the extent possible, but it felt unfair for them to be in my class without at least a basic competency in English.

Serious question. So how did such students get through the reading & writing sections of the SAT to score well enough to be admitted to a school like JHU? Supposedly those are the parts one can't improve much through prep? Or is full-pay that impactful for admission despite the score?

DP:
If they are coming from Asia they have juked SAT and TOEFL scores. Also JHU turns a blind eye to full pay foreigners - that was the case in my JHU grad school program. They will give them continuing English courses, writing tutors, etc.

The European classmates had a better command of English grammar than most American students!

NP: I taught at JHU (undergrads and grad students). Unfortunately, this was my experience too. Many foreign students, especially from Asia, were not proficient in English even though their TOEFL scores indicated that they were. My old department would also admit full pay grad students with low TOEFL scores. I complained and ranked applicants lower but got a lot of pushback from the chair to admit anyway.

I used to do work study at a graduate admissions office, and can confirm that even if someone had a perfect TOEFL score, it correlated very poorly with actual real world communication skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is a recovering JHU graduate. Her first year got off to a bang with a roommate from South Korea who was so ashamed of her pigeon English that she only spoke to other Asians. Try taking an advanced math class at JHU with a classroom "teacher" whose first language was English.

I'm assuming that was supposed to read "not English"? So did your daughter stick with the racism she learned at home, or did she discover the joy of knowing diverse groups of people?

I don't think it's racist to point out that having a math TA who doesn't speak or understand English well is frustrating, and it was a problem at my college too. It's a reasonable expectation that your teachers be able to comprehend and communicate with students.

I'm sympathetic, because when I TA'd at Hopkins I had several ESL students in my class who weren't able to read or write English at a proficient level. It was hard to decode the meaning of their written work, and they couldn't follow our class discussions or read the texts (it was a literature class). I gave them OK grades, making huge allowances for their language skills, because I felt like they were trying to the extent possible, but it felt unfair for them to be in my class without at least a basic competency in English.

Serious question. So how did such students get through the reading & writing sections of the SAT to score well enough to be admitted to a school like JHU? Supposedly those are the parts one can't improve much through prep? Or is full-pay that impactful for admission despite the score?

DP:
If they are coming from Asia they have juked SAT and TOEFL scores. Also JHU turns a blind eye to full pay foreigners - that was the case in my JHU grad school program. They will give them continuing English courses, writing tutors, etc.

The European classmates had a better command of English grammar than most American students!

NP: I taught at JHU (undergrads and grad students). Unfortunately, this was my experience too. Many foreign students, especially from Asia, were not proficient in English even though their TOEFL scores indicated that they were. My old department would also admit full pay grad students with low TOEFL scores. I complained and ranked applicants lower but got a lot of pushback from the chair to admit anyway.

I used to do work study at a graduate admissions office, and can confirm that even if someone had a perfect TOEFL score, it correlated very poorly with actual real world communication skills.

Yes! Because someone else was paid to take the test. 🙄

[Anonymous]

My kid is currently at JHU. Actually in Baltimore bc he signed a lease. I just visited and the kids engineered a ping-pong table for their dining. I'm not sure whether to be pissed or happy............bc I know they're not actually using it for ping-pong.