What are we still afraid of?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why should a health 25 year old shut themselves away for some indeterminate time period in order to protect someone they don’t know?

Because they're not psychopaths?

That’s some great messaging “if you leave your house to hang out with your friends, you’re a psychopath”.

Unsurprisingly, people tune out such a hysterical message.

[Anonymous]

Helping each out is one thing, but expecting others to care more about your health than you yourself, is a special kind of narcissism and selfishness.

If you are high risk and doing non essential things but complaining about others, then smh.

You have to take your own health into your own hands.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Covid-19 has killed over 200,000 Americans in SIX MONTHS. That's more per month/year than any war. How are we still pretending it is no big deal?

This virus is a formidable enemy. We need to unite to fight it, not whine about masks and skipping pedicures.


War -- Number of American deaths
American Civil War (1861-1865) 620,000
World War II (1939-1945) 405,399
World War I (1917-1918) 116,516
Vietnam War (1965-1973) 58,209
Korean War (1950-1953) 36,516
American Revolutionary War (1775-1783) 25,000
War of 1812 (1812-1815) 20,000
Mexican-American War (1846-1848) 13,283
War on Terror** (2001-present) 7,053
SpanishAmerican War (1898) 2,446
Gulf War (1990-1991) 258

group the war deaths and covid deaths by age ranges to get a better understanding of why not everyone feels the way you do. otherwise this is a completely disingenuous comparison void of any critical thinking.

So elderly lives and those of minorities and the lives of people with co-morbidities are worth....what? What about the overall health of athletes who may have long term effects, covid long haulers, and people who survive but are nearly disabled from their hospital stay? They are worth...what?

The point is that, in this pandemic, we’re asking the people who are not really at risk to give up a lot, emotionally, economically and socially, in order to protect other people, and not really offering them anything in return.

Why should a health 25 year old shut themselves away for some indeterminate time period in order to protect someone they don’t know?

You're arguing that that's different than a war? That healthy young people aren't sent to war to protect other people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Covid-19 has killed over 200,000 Americans in SIX MONTHS. That's more per month/year than any war. How are we still pretending it is no big deal?

This virus is a formidable enemy. We need to unite to fight it, not whine about masks and skipping pedicures.


War -- Number of American deaths
American Civil War (1861-1865) 620,000
World War II (1939-1945) 405,399
World War I (1917-1918) 116,516
Vietnam War (1965-1973) 58,209
Korean War (1950-1953) 36,516
American Revolutionary War (1775-1783) 25,000
War of 1812 (1812-1815) 20,000
Mexican-American War (1846-1848) 13,283
War on Terror** (2001-present) 7,053
SpanishAmerican War (1898) 2,446
Gulf War (1990-1991) 258

group the war deaths and covid deaths by age ranges to get a better understanding of why not everyone feels the way you do. otherwise this is a completely disingenuous comparison void of any critical thinking.

So elderly lives and those of minorities and the lives of people with co-morbidities are worth....what? What about the overall health of athletes who may have long term effects, covid long haulers, and people who survive but are nearly disabled from their hospital stay? They are worth...what?

The point is that, in this pandemic, we’re asking the people who are not really at risk to give up a lot, emotionally, economically and socially, in order to protect other people, and not really offering them anything in return.

Why should a health 25 year old shut themselves away for some indeterminate time period in order to protect someone they don’t know?

You're arguing that that's different than a war? That healthy young people aren't sent to war to protect other people?

Well yes they are, but they’ve also signed for a job. I don’t want anyone to go to war but these particular young people signed up and are getting pay checks and job training in exchange for the possibility of going to war.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a big difference between shutting oneself and following social distancing guidelines (which should be rules, but that's for another thread).

We could all EASILY do the following

1) Wear a mask

2) Stay 6-9ft apart from everyone except our pods/families

3) Eat out only outdoors

4) Move as many services as possible outdoors

5) Only socialize with/organize life with small pods (up to 10 people)

6) Get the flu shot

PP, i mostly agree with you, but you're missing the huge, huge sources or interaction that are in person work, school, and child care. Just canceling school and child care (because that leads to a network larger than 10 people, even with smaller class sizes) and expecting parents to somehow juggle full time work at regular productivity along with it is putting SO MUCH on the backs of kids and parents. I could do it in "emergency mode" this spring, but now my boss's expectations have ramped up and the emergency flexibilities are evaporating. I feel like my only choices are day care or asking for a demotion. It's not really about "socializing" with our chosen pods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a big difference between shutting oneself and following social distancing guidelines (which should be rules, but that's for another thread).

We could all EASILY do the following

1) Wear a mask

2) Stay 6-9ft apart from everyone except our pods/families

3) Eat out only outdoors

4) Move as many services as possible outdoors

5) Only socialize with/organize life with small pods (up to 10 people)

6) Get the flu shot

PP, i mostly agree with you, but you're missing the huge, huge sources or interaction that are in person work, school, and child care. Just canceling school and child care (because that leads to a network larger than 10 people, even with smaller class sizes) and expecting parents to somehow juggle full time work at regular productivity along with it is putting SO MUCH on the backs of kids and parents. I could do it in "emergency mode" this spring, but now my boss's expectations have ramped up and the emergency flexibilities are evaporating. I feel like my only choices are day care or asking for a demotion. It's not really about "socializing" with our chosen pods.

This is very true. Where I am, the supervisors gave us flexibilities and showed patience and grace for a while. But that's not the case anymore and there's an expectation that you are working as normal, even if it's still at home, and even if you have kids who need your help with school.

I've also seen it in a supervisor who now sits next to me at home (my DH) who in early Sept. was ready to hit the ceiling over an employee who missed a 9am meeting. When she explained she lost track of time because she was getting her two elementary school kids going with their online school, he wasn't very sympathetic until I explained to him that he doesn't have to worry about that with our own kids, as I'm the parent taking care of that...right under his nose in our own home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Covid-19 has killed over 200,000 Americans in SIX MONTHS. That's more per month/year than any war. How are we still pretending it is no big deal?

This virus is a formidable enemy. We need to unite to fight it, not whine about masks and skipping pedicures.


War -- Number of American deaths
American Civil War (1861-1865) 620,000
World War II (1939-1945) 405,399
World War I (1917-1918) 116,516
Vietnam War (1965-1973) 58,209
Korean War (1950-1953) 36,516
American Revolutionary War (1775-1783) 25,000
War of 1812 (1812-1815) 20,000
Mexican-American War (1846-1848) 13,283
War on Terror** (2001-present) 7,053
SpanishAmerican War (1898) 2,446
Gulf War (1990-1991) 258

group the war deaths and covid deaths by age ranges to get a better understanding of why not everyone feels the way you do. otherwise this is a completely disingenuous comparison void of any critical thinking.

So elderly lives and those of minorities and the lives of people with co-morbidities are worth....what? What about the overall health of athletes who may have long term effects, covid long haulers, and people who survive but are nearly disabled from their hospital stay? They are worth...what?

The point is that, in this pandemic, we’re asking the people who are not really at risk to give up a lot, emotionally, economically and socially, in order to protect other people, and not really offering them anything in return.

Why should a health 25 year old shut themselves away for some indeterminate time period in order to protect someone they don’t know?

Because that is how an advanced society works. We work together to help all - both the healthy and the infirm. We recognize that the infirm have much to offer even though they may not be healthy, and their loss would be a loss to society. I mean my god, just look at all the artists, great thinkers, etc we've lost in the last six months due to a disease that can be prevented or at least the risk is lowered if people follow common-sense safety precautions while scientists do the work of finding therapeutics and preventatives for the long-term. Who's to say that person with diabetes or heart disease isn't making a valuable contribution to society that is forever lost because we can't handle being in our house for a few months. My god, the lack of empathy and forethought is astounding.

Plus a million. I cannot imagine the level of selfish prick one has to be to say what the PP says. God forbid you have to care about others in society -especially a vulnerable population- because you can't be bothered not to go to a bar. Or to take precautions to stay home. I'm disgusted with people like the PP. Truly sad times for America the as Leader in anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Covid-19 has killed over 200,000 Americans in SIX MONTHS. That's more per month/year than any war. How are we still pretending it is no big deal?

This virus is a formidable enemy. We need to unite to fight it, not whine about masks and skipping pedicures.


War -- Number of American deaths
American Civil War (1861-1865) 620,000
World War II (1939-1945) 405,399
World War I (1917-1918) 116,516
Vietnam War (1965-1973) 58,209
Korean War (1950-1953) 36,516
American Revolutionary War (1775-1783) 25,000
War of 1812 (1812-1815) 20,000
Mexican-American War (1846-1848) 13,283
War on Terror** (2001-present) 7,053
SpanishAmerican War (1898) 2,446
Gulf War (1990-1991) 258

group the war deaths and covid deaths by age ranges to get a better understanding of why not everyone feels the way you do. otherwise this is a completely disingenuous comparison void of any critical thinking.

So elderly lives and those of minorities and the lives of people with co-morbidities are worth....what? What about the overall health of athletes who may have long term effects, covid long haulers, and people who survive but are nearly disabled from their hospital stay? They are worth...what?

The point is that, in this pandemic, we’re asking the people who are not really at risk to give up a lot, emotionally, economically and socially, in order to protect other people, and not really offering them anything in return.

Why should a health 25 year old shut themselves away for some indeterminate time period in order to protect someone they don’t know?

You're arguing that that's different than a war? That healthy young people aren't sent to war to protect other people?

Well yes they are, but they’ve also signed for a job. I don’t want anyone to go to war but these particular young people signed up and are getting pay checks and job training in exchange for the possibility of going to war.

Everyone who went to Vietnam "signed up" to be there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Covid-19 has killed over 200,000 Americans in SIX MONTHS. That's more per month/year than any war. How are we still pretending it is no big deal?

This virus is a formidable enemy. We need to unite to fight it, not whine about masks and skipping pedicures.


War -- Number of American deaths
American Civil War (1861-1865) 620,000
World War II (1939-1945) 405,399
World War I (1917-1918) 116,516
Vietnam War (1965-1973) 58,209
Korean War (1950-1953) 36,516
American Revolutionary War (1775-1783) 25,000
War of 1812 (1812-1815) 20,000
Mexican-American War (1846-1848) 13,283
War on Terror** (2001-present) 7,053
SpanishAmerican War (1898) 2,446
Gulf War (1990-1991) 258

group the war deaths and covid deaths by age ranges to get a better understanding of why not everyone feels the way you do. otherwise this is a completely disingenuous comparison void of any critical thinking.

So elderly lives and those of minorities and the lives of people with co-morbidities are worth....what? What about the overall health of athletes who may have long term effects, covid long haulers, and people who survive but are nearly disabled from their hospital stay? They are worth...what?

The point is that, in this pandemic, we’re asking the people who are not really at risk to give up a lot, emotionally, economically and socially, in order to protect other people, and not really offering them anything in return.

Why should a health 25 year old shut themselves away for some indeterminate time period in order to protect someone they don’t know?

You're arguing that that's different than a war? That healthy young people aren't sent to war to protect other people?

Yes, it’s different than war. Our current military are all volunteers, who agreed to the potential sacrifices, in return for certain benefits. Even our conscripted soldiers during WW2 were rewarded for their sacrifices with programs like the GI Bill, subsidized home loans and the like.

Now, older people are demanding that younger people continue to make sacrifices and put their lives on hold for an undetermined period in order to protect older people. And there’s no talk of any potential benefit or reward for doing so, just a constant drumbeat of scolding from the gerontocracy that runs this country.

And older people wonder why the young have basically shrugged their shoulders and decided to move on with their lives. I guaranty you, if this was a disease that primarily affected the young, there’s no way Baby Boomers would have agreed to make sacrifices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Covid-19 has killed over 200,000 Americans in SIX MONTHS. That's more per month/year than any war. How are we still pretending it is no big deal?

This virus is a formidable enemy. We need to unite to fight it, not whine about masks and skipping pedicures.


War -- Number of American deaths
American Civil War (1861-1865) 620,000
World War II (1939-1945) 405,399
World War I (1917-1918) 116,516
Vietnam War (1965-1973) 58,209
Korean War (1950-1953) 36,516
American Revolutionary War (1775-1783) 25,000
War of 1812 (1812-1815) 20,000
Mexican-American War (1846-1848) 13,283
War on Terror** (2001-present) 7,053
SpanishAmerican War (1898) 2,446
Gulf War (1990-1991) 258

group the war deaths and covid deaths by age ranges to get a better understanding of why not everyone feels the way you do. otherwise this is a completely disingenuous comparison void of any critical thinking.

So elderly lives and those of minorities and the lives of people with co-morbidities are worth....what? What about the overall health of athletes who may have long term effects, covid long haulers, and people who survive but are nearly disabled from their hospital stay? They are worth...what?

The point is that, in this pandemic, we’re asking the people who are not really at risk to give up a lot, emotionally, economically and socially, in order to protect other people, and not really offering them anything in return.

Why should a health 25 year old shut themselves away for some indeterminate time period in order to protect someone they don’t know?

You're arguing that that's different than a war? That healthy young people aren't sent to war to protect other people?

Yes, it’s different than war. Our current military are all volunteers, who agreed to the potential sacrifices, in return for certain benefits. Even our conscripted soldiers during WW2 were rewarded for their sacrifices with programs like the GI Bill, subsidized home loans and the like.

Now, older people are demanding that younger people continue to make sacrifices and put their lives on hold for an undetermined period in order to protect older people. And there’s no talk of any potential benefit or reward for doing so, just a constant drumbeat of scolding from the gerontocracy that runs this country.

And older people wonder why the young have basically shrugged their shoulders and decided to move on with their lives. I guaranty you, if this was a disease that primarily affected the young, there’s no way Baby Boomers would have agreed to make sacrifices.

This is a new disease. They are still learning about long term damage to the heart and lungs, even in young people with mild symptoms. Don’t assume only old people are at risk of some life-altering effect if they get sick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Covid-19 has killed over 200,000 Americans in SIX MONTHS. That's more per month/year than any war. How are we still pretending it is no big deal?

This virus is a formidable enemy. We need to unite to fight it, not whine about masks and skipping pedicures.


War -- Number of American deaths
American Civil War (1861-1865) 620,000
World War II (1939-1945) 405,399
World War I (1917-1918) 116,516
Vietnam War (1965-1973) 58,209
Korean War (1950-1953) 36,516
American Revolutionary War (1775-1783) 25,000
War of 1812 (1812-1815) 20,000
Mexican-American War (1846-1848) 13,283
War on Terror** (2001-present) 7,053
SpanishAmerican War (1898) 2,446
Gulf War (1990-1991) 258

group the war deaths and covid deaths by age ranges to get a better understanding of why not everyone feels the way you do. otherwise this is a completely disingenuous comparison void of any critical thinking.

So elderly lives and those of minorities and the lives of people with co-morbidities are worth....what? What about the overall health of athletes who may have long term effects, covid long haulers, and people who survive but are nearly disabled from their hospital stay? They are worth...what?

The point is that, in this pandemic, we’re asking the people who are not really at risk to give up a lot, emotionally, economically and socially, in order to protect other people, and not really offering them anything in return.

Why should a health 25 year old shut themselves away for some indeterminate time period in order to protect someone they don’t know?

You're arguing that that's different than a war? That healthy young people aren't sent to war to protect other people?

Yes, it’s different than war. Our current military are all volunteers, who agreed to the potential sacrifices, in return for certain benefits. Even our conscripted soldiers during WW2 were rewarded for their sacrifices with programs like the GI Bill, subsidized home loans and the like.

Now, older people are demanding that younger people continue to make sacrifices and put their lives on hold for an undetermined period in order to protect older people. And there’s no talk of any potential benefit or reward for doing so, just a constant drumbeat of scolding from the gerontocracy that runs this country.

And older people wonder why the young have basically shrugged their shoulders and decided to move on with their lives. I guaranty you, if this was a disease that primarily affected the young, there’s no way Baby Boomers would have agreed to make sacrifices.

This is a new disease. They are still learning about long term damage to the heart and lungs, even in young people with mild symptoms. Don’t assume only old people are at risk of some life-altering effect if they get sick.

There's ever indication that the vast majority of people have a full recovery. It might take a couple weeks or a few months, but very few will have lasting damage past that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Covid-19 has killed over 200,000 Americans in SIX MONTHS. That's more per month/year than any war. How are we still pretending it is no big deal?

This virus is a formidable enemy. We need to unite to fight it, not whine about masks and skipping pedicures.


War -- Number of American deaths
American Civil War (1861-1865) 620,000
World War II (1939-1945) 405,399
World War I (1917-1918) 116,516
Vietnam War (1965-1973) 58,209
Korean War (1950-1953) 36,516
American Revolutionary War (1775-1783) 25,000
War of 1812 (1812-1815) 20,000
Mexican-American War (1846-1848) 13,283
War on Terror** (2001-present) 7,053
SpanishAmerican War (1898) 2,446
Gulf War (1990-1991) 258

group the war deaths and covid deaths by age ranges to get a better understanding of why not everyone feels the way you do. otherwise this is a completely disingenuous comparison void of any critical thinking.

So elderly lives and those of minorities and the lives of people with co-morbidities are worth....what? What about the overall health of athletes who may have long term effects, covid long haulers, and people who survive but are nearly disabled from their hospital stay? They are worth...what?

The point is that, in this pandemic, we’re asking the people who are not really at risk to give up a lot, emotionally, economically and socially, in order to protect other people, and not really offering them anything in return.

Why should a health 25 year old shut themselves away for some indeterminate time period in order to protect someone they don’t know?

You're arguing that that's different than a war? That healthy young people aren't sent to war to protect other people?

Yes, it’s different than war. Our current military are all volunteers, who agreed to the potential sacrifices, in return for certain benefits. Even our conscripted soldiers during WW2 were rewarded for their sacrifices with programs like the GI Bill, subsidized home loans and the like.

Now, older people are demanding that younger people continue to make sacrifices and put their lives on hold for an undetermined period in order to protect older people. And there’s no talk of any potential benefit or reward for doing so, just a constant drumbeat of scolding from the gerontocracy that runs this country.

And older people wonder why the young have basically shrugged their shoulders and decided to move on with their lives. I guaranty you, if this was a disease that primarily affected the young, there’s no way Baby Boomers would have agreed to make sacrifices.

This. We basically already know older generations wouldn't make these sacrifices because they didn't in 1957 or in the later, smaller epidemics.

And you're absolutely right that boomers won't do anything to help the young people who have been hit with long-term financial challenges due to the lockdowns.