What are we still afraid of?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:huh, an anecdote in the wapo that pushes an agenda which leads directly to increased market share for amazon. im shocked.

A friend lost her dad 59 and sister just 30 to COVID. Neither were high risk.

My mom’s neighbor in Florida is 75 and didn’t know she had Covid until she tested positive for it before going in for an elective procedure. She was completely asymptomatic.

We all have anecdotes, and we all use them to support our preconceived notions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Covid-19 has killed over 200,000 Americans in SIX MONTHS. That's more per month/year than any war. How are we still pretending it is no big deal?

This virus is a formidable enemy. We need to unite to fight it, not whine about masks and skipping pedicures.


War -- Number of American deaths
American Civil War (1861-1865) 620,000
World War II (1939-1945) 405,399
World War I (1917-1918) 116,516
Vietnam War (1965-1973) 58,209
Korean War (1950-1953) 36,516
American Revolutionary War (1775-1783) 25,000
War of 1812 (1812-1815) 20,000
Mexican-American War (1846-1848) 13,283
War on Terror** (2001-present) 7,053
SpanishAmerican War (1898) 2,446
Gulf War (1990-1991) 258

group the war deaths and covid deaths by age ranges to get a better understanding of why not everyone feels the way you do. otherwise this is a completely disingenuous comparison void of any critical thinking.

So elderly lives and those of minorities and the lives of people with co-morbidities are worth....what? What about the overall health of athletes who may have long term effects, covid long haulers, and people who survive but are nearly disabled from their hospital stay? They are worth...what?

The point is that, in this pandemic, we’re asking the people who are not really at risk to give up a lot, emotionally, economically and socially, in order to protect other people, and not really offering them anything in return.

Why should a health 25 year old shut themselves away for some indeterminate time period in order to protect someone they don’t know?

Because that is how an advanced society works. We work together to help all - both the healthy and the infirm. We recognize that the infirm have much to offer even though they may not be healthy, and their loss would be a loss to society. I mean my god, just look at all the artists, great thinkers, etc we've lost in the last six months due to a disease that can be prevented or at least the risk is lowered if people follow common-sense safety precautions while scientists do the work of finding therapeutics and preventatives for the long-term. Who's to say that person with diabetes or heart disease isn't making a valuable contribution to society that is forever lost because we can't handle being in our house for a few months. My god, the lack of empathy and forethought is astounding.

[Anonymous]

Because that is how an advanced society works. We work together to help all - both the healthy and the infirm. We recognize that the infirm have much to offer even though they may not be healthy, and their loss would be a loss to society. I mean my god, just look at all the artists, great thinkers, etc we've lost in the last six months due to a disease that can be prevented or at least the risk is lowered if people follow common-sense safety precautions while scientists do the work of finding therapeutics and preventatives for the long-term. Who's to say that person with diabetes or heart disease isn't making a valuable contribution to society that is forever lost because we can't handle being in our house for a few months. My god, the lack of empathy and forethought is astounding.

Our society has never worked in the way you described. It was pretty clear to me that Americans would never rally around the cause, in this situation.

I’m surprised you would find it “astounding.” Our current situation was inevitable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Covid-19 has killed over 200,000 Americans in SIX MONTHS. That's more per month/year than any war. How are we still pretending it is no big deal?

This virus is a formidable enemy. We need to unite to fight it, not whine about masks and skipping pedicures.


War -- Number of American deaths
American Civil War (1861-1865) 620,000
World War II (1939-1945) 405,399
World War I (1917-1918) 116,516
Vietnam War (1965-1973) 58,209
Korean War (1950-1953) 36,516
American Revolutionary War (1775-1783) 25,000
War of 1812 (1812-1815) 20,000
Mexican-American War (1846-1848) 13,283
War on Terror** (2001-present) 7,053
SpanishAmerican War (1898) 2,446
Gulf War (1990-1991) 258

group the war deaths and covid deaths by age ranges to get a better understanding of why not everyone feels the way you do. otherwise this is a completely disingenuous comparison void of any critical thinking.

So elderly lives and those of minorities and the lives of people with co-morbidities are worth....what? What about the overall health of athletes who may have long term effects, covid long haulers, and people who survive but are nearly disabled from their hospital stay? They are worth...what?

The point is that, in this pandemic, we’re asking the people who are not really at risk to give up a lot, emotionally, economically and socially, in order to protect other people, and not really offering them anything in return.

Why should a health 25 year old shut themselves away for some indeterminate time period in order to protect someone they don’t know?

Because that is how an advanced society works. We work together to help all - both the healthy and the infirm. We recognize that the infirm have much to offer even though they may not be healthy, and their loss would be a loss to society. I mean my god, just look at all the artists, great thinkers, etc we've lost in the last six months due to a disease that can be prevented or at least the risk is lowered if people follow common-sense safety precautions while scientists do the work of finding therapeutics and preventatives for the long-term. Who's to say that person with diabetes or heart disease isn't making a valuable contribution to society that is forever lost because we can't handle being in our house for a few months. My god, the lack of empathy and forethought is astounding.

And what do you do in non-pandemic times to support the “infirm”? Or do you just pat yourself on the back because you stay home and order from Door Dash?

[Anonymous]

This is worth sharing: https://dangoodspeed.com/covid/total-cases-since-june

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is worth sharing: https://dangoodspeed.com/covid/total-cases-since-june

nicely done cherry picking a starting point to avoid the time when the blue states of NY, NJ, CT, MA, RI, PA, MD, VA, DE, MI, ME, and any other north east state i cant remember actually had their outbreak. the way the author waves it off is quite clever.

now do deaths per million!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Covid-19 has killed over 200,000 Americans in SIX MONTHS. That's more per month/year than any war. How are we still pretending it is no big deal?

This virus is a formidable enemy. We need to unite to fight it, not whine about masks and skipping pedicures.


War -- Number of American deaths
American Civil War (1861-1865) 620,000
World War II (1939-1945) 405,399
World War I (1917-1918) 116,516
Vietnam War (1965-1973) 58,209
Korean War (1950-1953) 36,516
American Revolutionary War (1775-1783) 25,000
War of 1812 (1812-1815) 20,000
Mexican-American War (1846-1848) 13,283
War on Terror** (2001-present) 7,053
SpanishAmerican War (1898) 2,446
Gulf War (1990-1991) 258

group the war deaths and covid deaths by age ranges to get a better understanding of why not everyone feels the way you do. otherwise this is a completely disingenuous comparison void of any critical thinking.

So elderly lives and those of minorities and the lives of people with co-morbidities are worth....what? What about the overall health of athletes who may have long term effects, covid long haulers, and people who survive but are nearly disabled from their hospital stay? They are worth...what?

The point is that, in this pandemic, we’re asking the people who are not really at risk to give up a lot, emotionally, economically and socially, in order to protect other people, and not really offering them anything in return.

Why should a health 25 year old shut themselves away for some indeterminate time period in order to protect someone they don’t know?

Because that is how an advanced society works. We work together to help all - both the healthy and the infirm. We recognize that the infirm have much to offer even though they may not be healthy, and their loss would be a loss to society. I mean my god, just look at all the artists, great thinkers, etc we've lost in the last six months due to a disease that can be prevented or at least the risk is lowered if people follow common-sense safety precautions while scientists do the work of finding therapeutics and preventatives for the long-term. Who's to say that person with diabetes or heart disease isn't making a valuable contribution to society that is forever lost because we can't handle being in our house for a few months. My god, the lack of empathy and forethought is astounding.

Thanks, PP. I'm the PP who posted the numbers.

To those saying this is irrelevant, "void of critical thinking," etc., it is absolutely not. In every more traditional war in recent history, we send our most able into harm's way, so that those of us less strong can live in safety.

We KNOW how to fight this. We CAN partly reopen and improve people's mental health and economic well being, but ONLY if we *all* follow safety advice while scientists work on a coordinated response.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Covid-19 has killed over 200,000 Americans in SIX MONTHS. That's more per month/year than any war. How are we still pretending it is no big deal?

This virus is a formidable enemy. We need to unite to fight it, not whine about masks and skipping pedicures.


War -- Number of American deaths
American Civil War (1861-1865) 620,000
World War II (1939-1945) 405,399
World War I (1917-1918) 116,516
Vietnam War (1965-1973) 58,209
Korean War (1950-1953) 36,516
American Revolutionary War (1775-1783) 25,000
War of 1812 (1812-1815) 20,000
Mexican-American War (1846-1848) 13,283
War on Terror** (2001-present) 7,053
SpanishAmerican War (1898) 2,446
Gulf War (1990-1991) 258

group the war deaths and covid deaths by age ranges to get a better understanding of why not everyone feels the way you do. otherwise this is a completely disingenuous comparison void of any critical thinking.

So elderly lives and those of minorities and the lives of people with co-morbidities are worth....what? What about the overall health of athletes who may have long term effects, covid long haulers, and people who survive but are nearly disabled from their hospital stay? They are worth...what?

The point is that, in this pandemic, we’re asking the people who are not really at risk to give up a lot, emotionally, economically and socially, in order to protect other people, and not really offering them anything in return.

Why should a health 25 year old shut themselves away for some indeterminate time period in order to protect someone they don’t know?

Could the healthy 25 year old at least wear an f’ing mask??? I think it has been projected we’d have 80k fewer deaths by the end of the year if most people wear masks regularly.

[Anonymous]

There is a big difference between shutting oneself and following social distancing guidelines (which should be rules, but that's for another thread).

We could all EASILY do the following

1) Wear a mask

2) Stay 6-9ft apart from everyone except our pods/families

3) Eat out only outdoors

4) Move as many services as possible outdoors

5) Only socialize with/organize life with small pods (up to 10 people)

6) Get the flu shot

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Covid-19 has killed over 200,000 Americans in SIX MONTHS. That's more per month/year than any war. How are we still pretending it is no big deal?

This virus is a formidable enemy. We need to unite to fight it, not whine about masks and skipping pedicures.


War -- Number of American deaths
American Civil War (1861-1865) 620,000
World War II (1939-1945) 405,399
World War I (1917-1918) 116,516
Vietnam War (1965-1973) 58,209
Korean War (1950-1953) 36,516
American Revolutionary War (1775-1783) 25,000
War of 1812 (1812-1815) 20,000
Mexican-American War (1846-1848) 13,283
War on Terror** (2001-present) 7,053
SpanishAmerican War (1898) 2,446
Gulf War (1990-1991) 258

group the war deaths and covid deaths by age ranges to get a better understanding of why not everyone feels the way you do. otherwise this is a completely disingenuous comparison void of any critical thinking.

So elderly lives and those of minorities and the lives of people with co-morbidities are worth....what? What about the overall health of athletes who may have long term effects, covid long haulers, and people who survive but are nearly disabled from their hospital stay? They are worth...what?

The point is that, in this pandemic, we’re asking the people who are not really at risk to give up a lot, emotionally, economically and socially, in order to protect other people, and not really offering them anything in return.

Why should a health 25 year old shut themselves away for some indeterminate time period in order to protect someone they don’t know?

Could the healthy 25 year old at least wear an f’ing mask??? I think it has been projected we’d have 80k fewer deaths by the end of the year if most people wear masks regularly.

yes, it was projected by an absolute garbage model that has already (just 4 weeks later!) reduced their death projection by half. that IHME projection was outside of their given confidence intervals in less than 2 weeks!. it is completely fabricated and is why their is such distrust of the media and "the science" on this issue.

what happens when masking does not produce any noticeable reduction or impact in the virus? whats the next mandate? schools closed next year too? stay at home orders? masks are the line that is drawn so that the argument does not move to the next stage of draconian orders. nationwide, masks have shown to have no impact on the course of an outbreak.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Why should a health 25 year old shut themselves away for some indeterminate time period in order to protect someone they don’t know?

Because they're not psychopaths?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why should a health 25 year old shut themselves away for some indeterminate time period in order to protect someone they don’t know?

Because they're not psychopaths?

Not to mention if you don't care about the lives of older Americans and those with co-morbidities, you might want to care about a generation of parentless children who will need support and assistance because you didn't want to be bothered to follow moderately burdensome public health guidance for a relatively short period. No one likes this, but we have to manage it as well as we can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why should a health 25 year old shut themselves away for some indeterminate time period in order to protect someone they don’t know?

Because they're not psychopaths?

Not to mention if you don't care about the lives of older Americans and those with co-morbidities, you might want to care about a generation of parentless children who will need support and assistance because you didn't want to be bothered to follow moderately burdensome public health guidance for a relatively short period. No one likes this, but we have to manage it as well as we can.

dramatic ad hominem arguments like these deserve numbers and science to bring them back into reality. define this "generation of parentless children" we should worry about. by the CDC numbers, 16,206 people ages 25-54 (an age range that may stilll have children) are counted in the current covid mortality numbers. all of these deaths are tragic. but that is not the same magnitude of deaths that your argument implies. of that 16k, how many are of vs with covid? how many had severe comorbidities? how much greater or lower than expected deaths has this event caused for that age range? how much impact do school closures really have on that number?

applying statistics and risk assessments to this situation does not belittle the tragedy of the individual deaths

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why should a health 25 year old shut themselves away for some indeterminate time period in order to protect someone they don’t know?

Because they're not psychopaths?

Not to mention if you don't care about the lives of older Americans and those with co-morbidities, you might want to care about a generation of parentless children who will need support and assistance because you didn't want to be bothered to follow moderately burdensome public health guidance for a relatively short period. No one likes this, but we have to manage it as well as we can.

dramatic ad hominem arguments like these deserve numbers and science to bring them back into reality. define this "generation of parentless children" we should worry about. by the CDC numbers, 16,206 people ages 25-54 (an age range that may stilll have children) are counted in the current covid mortality numbers. all of these deaths are tragic. but that is not the same magnitude of deaths that your argument implies. of that 16k, how many are of vs with covid? how many had severe comorbidities? how much greater or lower than expected deaths has this event caused for that age range? how much impact do school closures really have on that number?

applying statistics and risk assessments to this situation does not belittle the tragedy of the individual deaths

I wasn't aware that one stopped being a parent at 54. You realize that there are plenty of people older than 55 who still have children under 18 right? And that many 18 to 25 year old rely on their parents for support? And even so, the numbers don't support the post I was responding to, which was that younger people shouldn't have to endure any restrictions on their liberty. The death rate is what is is now because of those restrictions. In addition, we are nowhere near done with all of this.

[Anonymous]

25-54 seemed a reasonable age range to cover "a generation of parentless children" given that you provided no additional context. should i extend it to 85?