Test is gone

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eh, some states don’t even require law school.

FWIW, I’m an attorney. Law school did not teach me how to actually practice law. I had no classes in client consultations, deposition prep, depositions, mother drafting, drafting and reviewing discovery, preparing settlement agreements or retainers, etc.

I assure you that going to law school does not assure competence. It assures a standard amount of basic general legal knowledge but really nothing more than that.

But you still have to pass the bar.

Not sure how that answers the competency question, but yes. A new lawyer has had zero training in the actual practice of law.

It's a minimum. You should be able to meet some standard. Should airline pilots have to show they can fly a plane or not? As someone mentioned, should we eliminate the driving test? A passing score on the road test does not prove that you're a good driver, just that you understand the minimum of how to actually drive a car and the rules of the road.

I feel we will come full circle with testing. SOLs or common core tests were put in place to make sure that students of all schools, poor or not receive the same education and that teachers are actually teaching a set forth curriculum.

The TJ test is no different. It is a minimum bar.

NP: I think tests are important but the TJ test is not a minimum bar. If students needed to achieve a minimum score on the test to be considered for admissions your analogy would work. That may be the solution for TJ and the SATs for college admissions. What is the minimum score to succeed (B avg?) at TJ? What is the minimum SAT score for Ivies, top 30, flagship state school, etc.?

By this logic if I can catch a football and run 50 yards I should be eligible to be selected for the varsity football team. Shouldn’t matter that someone else can do it better than I can! As long as we both meet that “minimum requirement” then I deserve a slot on the team same as the guy who has “prepped” by playing in peewee league or who can throw a spiral with 90% accuracy.
Why are we pretending that every candidate has academic talent/ability that is equivalent to every other candidate who meets an arbitrary minimum? We don’t do that in sports? Why do that in academics?

I was responding to the OP, maybe you, that used pilots and driving as examples. The tests for those examples are minimum standards. The TJ test is not a "minimum bar" as stated in the original posts because the goal is to get the highest score for admittance.

The goal of professional sports is to win with the best players. That is not the goal of education in general or most professions. My friend, who is an excellent doctor and went to a top 5 medical school and was top of his class still acknowledges that his cohort that graduated from medical school at the bottom of the class are still doctors. Now I admit that I would want to see the best doctor if I were sick but our educational system, at least in the US, is not based on the highest scores or most talented, like sports, music, etc.

I think there should be a test but no fee. I just think the analogy used above is weak and also doesn't acknowledge the reality of the US education system and the values/beliefs that it is based on.

TJ is a magnet school for those with exceptional talents in STEM - a high school for the BEST stem Player.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eh, some states don’t even require law school.

FWIW, I’m an attorney. Law school did not teach me how to actually practice law. I had no classes in client consultations, deposition prep, depositions, mother drafting, drafting and reviewing discovery, preparing settlement agreements or retainers, etc.

I assure you that going to law school does not assure competence. It assures a standard amount of basic general legal knowledge but really nothing more than that.

But you still have to pass the bar.

Not sure how that answers the competency question, but yes. A new lawyer has had zero training in the actual practice of law.

It's a minimum. You should be able to meet some standard. Should airline pilots have to show they can fly a plane or not? As someone mentioned, should we eliminate the driving test? A passing score on the road test does not prove that you're a good driver, just that you understand the minimum of how to actually drive a car and the rules of the road.

I feel we will come full circle with testing. SOLs or common core tests were put in place to make sure that students of all schools, poor or not receive the same education and that teachers are actually teaching a set forth curriculum.

The TJ test is no different. It is a minimum bar.

NP: I think tests are important but the TJ test is not a minimum bar. If students needed to achieve a minimum score on the test to be considered for admissions your analogy would work. That may be the solution for TJ and the SATs for college admissions. What is the minimum score to succeed (B avg?) at TJ? What is the minimum SAT score for Ivies, top 30, flagship state school, etc.?

By this logic if I can catch a football and run 50 yards I should be eligible to be selected for the varsity football team. Shouldn’t matter that someone else can do it better than I can! As long as we both meet that “minimum requirement” then I deserve a slot on the team same as the guy who has “prepped” by playing in peewee league or who can throw a spiral with 90% accuracy.
Why are we pretending that every candidate has academic talent/ability that is equivalent to every other candidate who meets an arbitrary minimum? We don’t do that in sports? Why do that in academics?

I was responding to the OP, maybe you, that used pilots and driving as examples. The tests for those examples are minimum standards. The TJ test is not a "minimum bar" as stated in the original posts because the goal is to get the highest score for admittance.

The goal of professional sports is to win with the best players. That is not the goal of education in general or most professions. My friend, who is an excellent doctor and went to a top 5 medical school and was top of his class still acknowledges that his cohort that graduated from medical school at the bottom of the class are still doctors. Now I admit that I would want to see the best doctor if I were sick but our educational system, at least in the US, is not based on the highest scores or most talented, like sports, music, etc.

I think there should be a test but no fee. I just think the analogy used above is weak and also doesn't acknowledge the reality of the US education system and the values/beliefs that it is based on.

TJ is a magnet school for those with exceptional talents in STEM - a high school for the BEST stem Player.

Read the mission statement:

Mission Statement
The mission of Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology is to provide students with a challenging learning environment focused on math, science, and technology, to inspire joy at the prospect of discovery, and to foster a culture of innovation based on ethical behavior and the shared interests of humanity. https://tjhsst.fcps.edu/about

Nothing about a school for the best STEM students or even gifted students. FCPS decides what TJ is as a magnet and who it is for. Your definition of the school doesn't match with the FCPS's objectives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eh, some states don’t even require law school.

FWIW, I’m an attorney. Law school did not teach me how to actually practice law. I had no classes in client consultations, deposition prep, depositions, mother drafting, drafting and reviewing discovery, preparing settlement agreements or retainers, etc.

I assure you that going to law school does not assure competence. It assures a standard amount of basic general legal knowledge but really nothing more than that.

But you still have to pass the bar.

Not sure how that answers the competency question, but yes. A new lawyer has had zero training in the actual practice of law.

It's a minimum. You should be able to meet some standard. Should airline pilots have to show they can fly a plane or not? As someone mentioned, should we eliminate the driving test? A passing score on the road test does not prove that you're a good driver, just that you understand the minimum of how to actually drive a car and the rules of the road.

I feel we will come full circle with testing. SOLs or common core tests were put in place to make sure that students of all schools, poor or not receive the same education and that teachers are actually teaching a set forth curriculum.

The TJ test is no different. It is a minimum bar.

NP: I think tests are important but the TJ test is not a minimum bar. If students needed to achieve a minimum score on the test to be considered for admissions your analogy would work. That may be the solution for TJ and the SATs for college admissions. What is the minimum score to succeed (B avg?) at TJ? What is the minimum SAT score for Ivies, top 30, flagship state school, etc.?

By this logic if I can catch a football and run 50 yards I should be eligible to be selected for the varsity football team. Shouldn’t matter that someone else can do it better than I can! As long as we both meet that “minimum requirement” then I deserve a slot on the team same as the guy who has “prepped” by playing in peewee league or who can throw a spiral with 90% accuracy.
Why are we pretending that every candidate has academic talent/ability that is equivalent to every other candidate who meets an arbitrary minimum? We don’t do that in sports? Why do that in academics?

I was responding to the OP, maybe you, that used pilots and driving as examples. The tests for those examples are minimum standards. The TJ test is not a "minimum bar" as stated in the original posts because the goal is to get the highest score for admittance.

The goal of professional sports is to win with the best players. That is not the goal of education in general or most professions. My friend, who is an excellent doctor and went to a top 5 medical school and was top of his class still acknowledges that his cohort that graduated from medical school at the bottom of the class are still doctors. Now I admit that I would want to see the best doctor if I were sick but our educational system, at least in the US, is not based on the highest scores or most talented, like sports, music, etc.

I think there should be a test but no fee. I just think the analogy used above is weak and also doesn't acknowledge the reality of the US education system and the values/beliefs that it is based on.

TJ is a magnet school for those with exceptional talents in STEM - a high school for the BEST stem Player.

Read the mission statement:

Mission Statement
The mission of Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology is to provide students with a challenging learning environment focused on math, science, and technology, to inspire joy at the prospect of discovery, and to foster a culture of innovation based on ethical behavior and the shared interests of humanity. https://tjhsst.fcps.edu/about

Nothing about a school for the best STEM students or even gifted students. FCPS decides what TJ is as a magnet and who it is for. Your definition of the school doesn't match with the FCPS's objectives.

You should also know that the mission statement changes every few years to suits the political needs of the school board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eh, some states don’t even require law school.

FWIW, I’m an attorney. Law school did not teach me how to actually practice law. I had no classes in client consultations, deposition prep, depositions, mother drafting, drafting and reviewing discovery, preparing settlement agreements or retainers, etc.

I assure you that going to law school does not assure competence. It assures a standard amount of basic general legal knowledge but really nothing more than that.

But you still have to pass the bar.

Not sure how that answers the competency question, but yes. A new lawyer has had zero training in the actual practice of law.

It's a minimum. You should be able to meet some standard. Should airline pilots have to show they can fly a plane or not? As someone mentioned, should we eliminate the driving test? A passing score on the road test does not prove that you're a good driver, just that you understand the minimum of how to actually drive a car and the rules of the road.

I feel we will come full circle with testing. SOLs or common core tests were put in place to make sure that students of all schools, poor or not receive the same education and that teachers are actually teaching a set forth curriculum.

The TJ test is no different. It is a minimum bar.

NP: I think tests are important but the TJ test is not a minimum bar. If students needed to achieve a minimum score on the test to be considered for admissions your analogy would work. That may be the solution for TJ and the SATs for college admissions. What is the minimum score to succeed (B avg?) at TJ? What is the minimum SAT score for Ivies, top 30, flagship state school, etc.?

By this logic if I can catch a football and run 50 yards I should be eligible to be selected for the varsity football team. Shouldn’t matter that someone else can do it better than I can! As long as we both meet that “minimum requirement” then I deserve a slot on the team same as the guy who has “prepped” by playing in peewee league or who can throw a spiral with 90% accuracy.
Why are we pretending that every candidate has academic talent/ability that is equivalent to every other candidate who meets an arbitrary minimum? We don’t do that in sports? Why do that in academics?

I was responding to the OP, maybe you, that used pilots and driving as examples. The tests for those examples are minimum standards. The TJ test is not a "minimum bar" as stated in the original posts because the goal is to get the highest score for admittance.

The goal of professional sports is to win with the best players. That is not the goal of education in general or most professions. My friend, who is an excellent doctor and went to a top 5 medical school and was top of his class still acknowledges that his cohort that graduated from medical school at the bottom of the class are still doctors. Now I admit that I would want to see the best doctor if I were sick but our educational system, at least in the US, is not based on the highest scores or most talented, like sports, music, etc.

I think there should be a test but no fee. I just think the analogy used above is weak and also doesn't acknowledge the reality of the US education system and the values/beliefs that it is based on.

TJ is a magnet school for those with exceptional talents in STEM - a high school for the BEST stem Player.

Read the mission statement:

Mission Statement
The mission of Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology is to provide students with a challenging learning environment focused on math, science, and technology, to inspire joy at the prospect of discovery, and to foster a culture of innovation based on ethical behavior and the shared interests of humanity. https://tjhsst.fcps.edu/about

Nothing about a school for the best STEM students or even gifted students. FCPS decides what TJ is as a magnet and who it is for. Your definition of the school doesn't match with the FCPS's objectives.

You should also know that the mission statement changes every few years to suits the political needs of the school board.

You're right, which doesn't change my point. If the school board can change the mission of the school than they can decide who the school is for. TJ doesn't equal Best STEM player. Again, comparing to sports is pointless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eh, some states don’t even require law school.

FWIW, I’m an attorney. Law school did not teach me how to actually practice law. I had no classes in client consultations, deposition prep, depositions, mother drafting, drafting and reviewing discovery, preparing settlement agreements or retainers, etc.

I assure you that going to law school does not assure competence. It assures a standard amount of basic general legal knowledge but really nothing more than that.

But you still have to pass the bar.

Not sure how that answers the competency question, but yes. A new lawyer has had zero training in the actual practice of law.

It's a minimum. You should be able to meet some standard. Should airline pilots have to show they can fly a plane or not? As someone mentioned, should we eliminate the driving test? A passing score on the road test does not prove that you're a good driver, just that you understand the minimum of how to actually drive a car and the rules of the road.

I feel we will come full circle with testing. SOLs or common core tests were put in place to make sure that students of all schools, poor or not receive the same education and that teachers are actually teaching a set forth curriculum.

The TJ test is no different. It is a minimum bar.

NP: I think tests are important but the TJ test is not a minimum bar. If students needed to achieve a minimum score on the test to be considered for admissions your analogy would work. That may be the solution for TJ and the SATs for college admissions. What is the minimum score to succeed (B avg?) at TJ? What is the minimum SAT score for Ivies, top 30, flagship state school, etc.?

By this logic if I can catch a football and run 50 yards I should be eligible to be selected for the varsity football team. Shouldn’t matter that someone else can do it better than I can! As long as we both meet that “minimum requirement” then I deserve a slot on the team same as the guy who has “prepped” by playing in peewee league or who can throw a spiral with 90% accuracy.
Why are we pretending that every candidate has academic talent/ability that is equivalent to every other candidate who meets an arbitrary minimum? We don’t do that in sports? Why do that in academics?

I was responding to the OP, maybe you, that used pilots and driving as examples. The tests for those examples are minimum standards. The TJ test is not a "minimum bar" as stated in the original posts because the goal is to get the highest score for admittance.

The goal of professional sports is to win with the best players. That is not the goal of education in general or most professions. My friend, who is an excellent doctor and went to a top 5 medical school and was top of his class still acknowledges that his cohort that graduated from medical school at the bottom of the class are still doctors. Now I admit that I would want to see the best doctor if I were sick but our educational system, at least in the US, is not based on the highest scores or most talented, like sports, music, etc.

I think there should be a test but no fee. I just think the analogy used above is weak and also doesn't acknowledge the reality of the US education system and the values/beliefs that it is based on.

TJ is a magnet school for those with exceptional talents in STEM - a high school for the BEST stem Player.

Read the mission statement:

Mission Statement
The mission of Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology is to provide students with a challenging learning environment focused on math, science, and technology, to inspire joy at the prospect of discovery, and to foster a culture of innovation based on ethical behavior and the shared interests of humanity. https://tjhsst.fcps.edu/about

Nothing about a school for the best STEM students or even gifted students. FCPS decides what TJ is as a magnet and who it is for. Your definition of the school doesn't match with the FCPS's objectives.

You should also know that the mission statement changes every few years to suits the political needs of the school board.

You're right, which doesn't change my point. If the school board can change the mission of the school than they can decide who the school is for. TJ doesn't equal Best STEM player. Again, comparing to sports is pointless.

Wrong. It's a Governor's School. From the Virginia DOE website:


Purpose of the Governor's Schools
Governor's Schools give gifted students academic and visual and performing arts opportunities beyond those normally available in the students' home schools. Students are able to focus on a specific area of intellectual or artistic strength and interest and to study in a way that best suits the gifted learner's needs. Each program stresses non-traditional teaching and learning techniques. For example, small-group instruction, hands-on-experiences, research, field studies, or realistic or artistic productions are major elements in the instructional design at all schools. Students become scientists, writers, artists, and performers as they work with professional mentors and instructors. Every effort is made to tailor learning to needs of the community of learners that compose the program.

The Virginia Governor's School Program has been designed to assist divisions as they meet the needs of a small population of students whose learning levels are remarkably different from their age-level peers. The foundation of the Virginia Governor's School Program centers on best practices in the field of gifted education and the presentation of advanced content to able learners.

History of the Governor’s School
The Virginia Governor's School Program began in 1973 when Governor Linwood Holton established the first summer residential programs for 400 gifted students from across the commonwealth. From its beginnings, with three summer schools in 1973, the program has expanded to more than 40 sites throughout the commonwealth.

Virginia Governor's Schools provide some of the state's most able students academically and artistically challenging programs beyond those offered in their home schools. With the support of the Virginia Board of Education and the General Assembly, the Governor's Schools presently include summer residential, summer regional, and academic-year programs serving more than 7,500 gifted students from all parts of the commonwealth.

The years since 1973 have brought refinement and change to the programs, yet one aspect, the student, has remained constant. Each year, hundreds of outstanding young people come to one of the different Governor's Schools in search of knowledge and eager to accept the challenge of acquiring advanced skills. Each group makes the Governor's School programs a special experience by creating a community of learners who demonstrate their remarkable talents in diverse and meaningful ways.

Three types of Governor's Schools provide appropriate learning endeavors for gifted students throughout the commonwealth: Academic-Year Governor's Schools (AYGS), Summer Residential Governor's Schools (SRsGS) and the Summer Regional Governor's Schools (SRgGS).

Academic-Year Governor's Schools
Summer Residential Governor's Schools
Summer Regional Governor's Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eh, some states don’t even require law school.

FWIW, I’m an attorney. Law school did not teach me how to actually practice law. I had no classes in client consultations, deposition prep, depositions, mother drafting, drafting and reviewing discovery, preparing settlement agreements or retainers, etc.

I assure you that going to law school does not assure competence. It assures a standard amount of basic general legal knowledge but really nothing more than that.

But you still have to pass the bar.

Not sure how that answers the competency question, but yes. A new lawyer has had zero training in the actual practice of law.

It's a minimum. You should be able to meet some standard. Should airline pilots have to show they can fly a plane or not? As someone mentioned, should we eliminate the driving test? A passing score on the road test does not prove that you're a good driver, just that you understand the minimum of how to actually drive a car and the rules of the road.

I feel we will come full circle with testing. SOLs or common core tests were put in place to make sure that students of all schools, poor or not receive the same education and that teachers are actually teaching a set forth curriculum.

The TJ test is no different. It is a minimum bar.

NP: I think tests are important but the TJ test is not a minimum bar. If students needed to achieve a minimum score on the test to be considered for admissions your analogy would work. That may be the solution for TJ and the SATs for college admissions. What is the minimum score to succeed (B avg?) at TJ? What is the minimum SAT score for Ivies, top 30, flagship state school, etc.?

By this logic if I can catch a football and run 50 yards I should be eligible to be selected for the varsity football team. Shouldn’t matter that someone else can do it better than I can! As long as we both meet that “minimum requirement” then I deserve a slot on the team same as the guy who has “prepped” by playing in peewee league or who can throw a spiral with 90% accuracy.
Why are we pretending that every candidate has academic talent/ability that is equivalent to every other candidate who meets an arbitrary minimum? We don’t do that in sports? Why do that in academics?

I was responding to the OP, maybe you, that used pilots and driving as examples. The tests for those examples are minimum standards. The TJ test is not a "minimum bar" as stated in the original posts because the goal is to get the highest score for admittance.

The goal of professional sports is to win with the best players. That is not the goal of education in general or most professions. My friend, who is an excellent doctor and went to a top 5 medical school and was top of his class still acknowledges that his cohort that graduated from medical school at the bottom of the class are still doctors. Now I admit that I would want to see the best doctor if I were sick but our educational system, at least in the US, is not based on the highest scores or most talented, like sports, music, etc.

I think there should be a test but no fee. I just think the analogy used above is weak and also doesn't acknowledge the reality of the US education system and the values/beliefs that it is based on.

TJ is a magnet school for those with exceptional talents in STEM - a high school for the BEST stem Player.

Read the mission statement:

Mission Statement
The mission of Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology is to provide students with a challenging learning environment focused on math, science, and technology, to inspire joy at the prospect of discovery, and to foster a culture of innovation based on ethical behavior and the shared interests of humanity. https://tjhsst.fcps.edu/about

Nothing about a school for the best STEM students or even gifted students. FCPS decides what TJ is as a magnet and who it is for. Your definition of the school doesn't match with the FCPS's objectives.

You should also know that the mission statement changes every few years to suits the political needs of the school board.

You're right, which doesn't change my point. If the school board can change the mission of the school than they can decide who the school is for. TJ doesn't equal Best STEM player. Again, comparing to sports is pointless.

Ok TJ is for the average stem players despite it being ranked as the best high school in the country with the highest average sat scores and the most post ap courses and the best research equipments and labs including a super computer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eh, some states don’t even require law school.

FWIW, I’m an attorney. Law school did not teach me how to actually practice law. I had no classes in client consultations, deposition prep, depositions, mother drafting, drafting and reviewing discovery, preparing settlement agreements or retainers, etc.

I assure you that going to law school does not assure competence. It assures a standard amount of basic general legal knowledge but really nothing more than that.

But you still have to pass the bar.

Not sure how that answers the competency question, but yes. A new lawyer has had zero training in the actual practice of law.

It's a minimum. You should be able to meet some standard. Should airline pilots have to show they can fly a plane or not? As someone mentioned, should we eliminate the driving test? A passing score on the road test does not prove that you're a good driver, just that you understand the minimum of how to actually drive a car and the rules of the road.

I feel we will come full circle with testing. SOLs or common core tests were put in place to make sure that students of all schools, poor or not receive the same education and that teachers are actually teaching a set forth curriculum.

The TJ test is no different. It is a minimum bar.

NP: I think tests are important but the TJ test is not a minimum bar. If students needed to achieve a minimum score on the test to be considered for admissions your analogy would work. That may be the solution for TJ and the SATs for college admissions. What is the minimum score to succeed (B avg?) at TJ? What is the minimum SAT score for Ivies, top 30, flagship state school, etc.?

By this logic if I can catch a football and run 50 yards I should be eligible to be selected for the varsity football team. Shouldn’t matter that someone else can do it better than I can! As long as we both meet that “minimum requirement” then I deserve a slot on the team same as the guy who has “prepped” by playing in peewee league or who can throw a spiral with 90% accuracy.
Why are we pretending that every candidate has academic talent/ability that is equivalent to every other candidate who meets an arbitrary minimum? We don’t do that in sports? Why do that in academics?

I was responding to the OP, maybe you, that used pilots and driving as examples. The tests for those examples are minimum standards. The TJ test is not a "minimum bar" as stated in the original posts because the goal is to get the highest score for admittance.

The goal of professional sports is to win with the best players. That is not the goal of education in general or most professions. My friend, who is an excellent doctor and went to a top 5 medical school and was top of his class still acknowledges that his cohort that graduated from medical school at the bottom of the class are still doctors. Now I admit that I would want to see the best doctor if I were sick but our educational system, at least in the US, is not based on the highest scores or most talented, like sports, music, etc.

I think there should be a test but no fee. I just think the analogy used above is weak and also doesn't acknowledge the reality of the US education system and the values/beliefs that it is based on.

TJ is a magnet school for those with exceptional talents in STEM - a high school for the BEST stem Player.

Read the mission statement:

Mission Statement
The mission of Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology is to provide students with a challenging learning environment focused on math, science, and technology, to inspire joy at the prospect of discovery, and to foster a culture of innovation based on ethical behavior and the shared interests of humanity. https://tjhsst.fcps.edu/about

Nothing about a school for the best STEM students or even gifted students. FCPS decides what TJ is as a magnet and who it is for. Your definition of the school doesn't match with the FCPS's objectives.

You should also know that the mission statement changes every few years to suits the political needs of the school board.

You're right, which doesn't change my point. If the school board can change the mission of the school than they can decide who the school is for. TJ doesn't equal Best STEM player. Again, comparing to sports is pointless.

Wrong. It's a Governor's School. From the Virginia DOE website:


Purpose of the Governor's Schools
Governor's Schools give gifted students academic and visual and performing arts opportunities beyond those normally available in the students' home schools. Students are able to focus on a specific area of intellectual or artistic strength and interest and to study in a way that best suits the gifted learner's needs. Each program stresses non-traditional teaching and learning techniques. For example, small-group instruction, hands-on-experiences, research, field studies, or realistic or artistic productions are major elements in the instructional design at all schools. Students become scientists, writers, artists, and performers as they work with professional mentors and instructors. Every effort is made to tailor learning to needs of the community of learners that compose the program.

The Virginia Governor's School Program has been designed to assist divisions as they meet the needs of a small population of students whose learning levels are remarkably different from their age-level peers. The foundation of the Virginia Governor's School Program centers on best practices in the field of gifted education and the presentation of advanced content to able learners.

History of the Governor’s School
The Virginia Governor's School Program began in 1973 when Governor Linwood Holton established the first summer residential programs for 400 gifted students from across the commonwealth. From its beginnings, with three summer schools in 1973, the program has expanded to more than 40 sites throughout the commonwealth.

Virginia Governor's Schools provide some of the state's most able students academically and artistically challenging programs beyond those offered in their home schools. With the support of the Virginia Board of Education and the General Assembly, the Governor's Schools presently include summer residential, summer regional, and academic-year programs serving more than 7,500 gifted students from all parts of the commonwealth.

The years since 1973 have brought refinement and change to the programs, yet one aspect, the student, has remained constant. Each year, hundreds of outstanding young people come to one of the different Governor's Schools in search of knowledge and eager to accept the challenge of acquiring advanced skills. Each group makes the Governor's School programs a special experience by creating a community of learners who demonstrate their remarkable talents in diverse and meaningful ways.

Three types of Governor's Schools provide appropriate learning endeavors for gifted students throughout the commonwealth: Academic-Year Governor's Schools (AYGS), Summer Residential Governor's Schools (SRsGS) and the Summer Regional Governor's Schools (SRgGS).

Academic-Year Governor's Schools
Summer Residential Governor's Schools
Summer Regional Governor's Schools

Good point. It says it right there in black and white: "The Virginia Governor's School Program has been designed to assist divisions as they meet the needs of a small population of students whose learning levels are remarkably different from their age-level peers. The foundation of the Virginia Governor's School Program centers on best practices in the field of gifted education and the presentation of advanced content to able learners."

[Anonymous]

The current mission statement aligns with the Virginia guidelines.

Read them more carefully. And think about who might be the recipient of a Macarthur Award. Is it someone who is "the best STEM student" or someone who has benefitted from a school described in the current mission statement?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eh, some states don’t even require law school.

FWIW, I’m an attorney. Law school did not teach me how to actually practice law. I had no classes in client consultations, deposition prep, depositions, mother drafting, drafting and reviewing discovery, preparing settlement agreements or retainers, etc.

I assure you that going to law school does not assure competence. It assures a standard amount of basic general legal knowledge but really nothing more than that.

But you still have to pass the bar.

Not sure how that answers the competency question, but yes. A new lawyer has had zero training in the actual practice of law.

It's a minimum. You should be able to meet some standard. Should airline pilots have to show they can fly a plane or not? As someone mentioned, should we eliminate the driving test? A passing score on the road test does not prove that you're a good driver, just that you understand the minimum of how to actually drive a car and the rules of the road.

I feel we will come full circle with testing. SOLs or common core tests were put in place to make sure that students of all schools, poor or not receive the same education and that teachers are actually teaching a set forth curriculum.

The TJ test is no different. It is a minimum bar.

NP: I think tests are important but the TJ test is not a minimum bar. If students needed to achieve a minimum score on the test to be considered for admissions your analogy would work. That may be the solution for TJ and the SATs for college admissions. What is the minimum score to succeed (B avg?) at TJ? What is the minimum SAT score for Ivies, top 30, flagship state school, etc.?

By this logic if I can catch a football and run 50 yards I should be eligible to be selected for the varsity football team. Shouldn’t matter that someone else can do it better than I can! As long as we both meet that “minimum requirement” then I deserve a slot on the team same as the guy who has “prepped” by playing in peewee league or who can throw a spiral with 90% accuracy.
Why are we pretending that every candidate has academic talent/ability that is equivalent to every other candidate who meets an arbitrary minimum? We don’t do that in sports? Why do that in academics?

I was responding to the OP, maybe you, that used pilots and driving as examples. The tests for those examples are minimum standards. The TJ test is not a "minimum bar" as stated in the original posts because the goal is to get the highest score for admittance.

The goal of professional sports is to win with the best players. That is not the goal of education in general or most professions. My friend, who is an excellent doctor and went to a top 5 medical school and was top of his class still acknowledges that his cohort that graduated from medical school at the bottom of the class are still doctors. Now I admit that I would want to see the best doctor if I were sick but our educational system, at least in the US, is not based on the highest scores or most talented, like sports, music, etc.

I think there should be a test but no fee. I just think the analogy used above is weak and also doesn't acknowledge the reality of the US education system and the values/beliefs that it is based on.

TJ is a magnet school for those with exceptional talents in STEM - a high school for the BEST stem Player.

Read the mission statement:

Mission Statement
The mission of Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology is to provide students with a challenging learning environment focused on math, science, and technology, to inspire joy at the prospect of discovery, and to foster a culture of innovation based on ethical behavior and the shared interests of humanity. https://tjhsst.fcps.edu/about

Nothing about a school for the best STEM students or even gifted students. FCPS decides what TJ is as a magnet and who it is for. Your definition of the school doesn't match with the FCPS's objectives.

You should also know that the mission statement changes every few years to suits the political needs of the school board.

You're right, which doesn't change my point. If the school board can change the mission of the school than they can decide who the school is for. TJ doesn't equal Best STEM player. Again, comparing to sports is pointless.

Wrong. It's a Governor's School. From the Virginia DOE website:


Purpose of the Governor's Schools
Governor's Schools give gifted students academic and visual and performing arts opportunities beyond those normally available in the students' home schools. Students are able to focus on a specific area of intellectual or artistic strength and interest and to study in a way that best suits the gifted learner's needs. Each program stresses non-traditional teaching and learning techniques. For example, small-group instruction, hands-on-experiences, research, field studies, or realistic or artistic productions are major elements in the instructional design at all schools. Students become scientists, writers, artists, and performers as they work with professional mentors and instructors. Every effort is made to tailor learning to needs of the community of learners that compose the program.

The Virginia Governor's School Program has been designed to assist divisions as they meet the needs of a small population of students whose learning levels are remarkably different from their age-level peers. The foundation of the Virginia Governor's School Program centers on best practices in the field of gifted education and the presentation of advanced content to able learners.

History of the Governor’s School
The Virginia Governor's School Program began in 1973 when Governor Linwood Holton established the first summer residential programs for 400 gifted students from across the commonwealth. From its beginnings, with three summer schools in 1973, the program has expanded to more than 40 sites throughout the commonwealth.

Virginia Governor's Schools provide some of the state's most able students academically and artistically challenging programs beyond those offered in their home schools. With the support of the Virginia Board of Education and the General Assembly, the Governor's Schools presently include summer residential, summer regional, and academic-year programs serving more than 7,500 gifted students from all parts of the commonwealth.

The years since 1973 have brought refinement and change to the programs, yet one aspect, the student, has remained constant. Each year, hundreds of outstanding young people come to one of the different Governor's Schools in search of knowledge and eager to accept the challenge of acquiring advanced skills. Each group makes the Governor's School programs a special experience by creating a community of learners who demonstrate their remarkable talents in diverse and meaningful ways.

Three types of Governor's Schools provide appropriate learning endeavors for gifted students throughout the commonwealth: Academic-Year Governor's Schools (AYGS), Summer Residential Governor's Schools (SRsGS) and the Summer Regional Governor's Schools (SRgGS).

Academic-Year Governor's Schools
Summer Residential Governor's Schools
Summer Regional Governor's Schools

Good point. It says it right there in black and white: "The Virginia Governor's School Program has been designed to assist divisions as they meet the needs of a small population of students whose learning levels are remarkably different from their age-level peers. The foundation of the Virginia Governor's School Program centers on best practices in the field of gifted education and the presentation of advanced content to able learners."

FCPS Board doesn't care. Give it up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eh, some states don’t even require law school.

FWIW, I’m an attorney. Law school did not teach me how to actually practice law. I had no classes in client consultations, deposition prep, depositions, mother drafting, drafting and reviewing discovery, preparing settlement agreements or retainers, etc.

I assure you that going to law school does not assure competence. It assures a standard amount of basic general legal knowledge but really nothing more than that.

But you still have to pass the bar.

Not sure how that answers the competency question, but yes. A new lawyer has had zero training in the actual practice of law.

It's a minimum. You should be able to meet some standard. Should airline pilots have to show they can fly a plane or not? As someone mentioned, should we eliminate the driving test? A passing score on the road test does not prove that you're a good driver, just that you understand the minimum of how to actually drive a car and the rules of the road.

I feel we will come full circle with testing. SOLs or common core tests were put in place to make sure that students of all schools, poor or not receive the same education and that teachers are actually teaching a set forth curriculum.

The TJ test is no different. It is a minimum bar.

NP: I think tests are important but the TJ test is not a minimum bar. If students needed to achieve a minimum score on the test to be considered for admissions your analogy would work. That may be the solution for TJ and the SATs for college admissions. What is the minimum score to succeed (B avg?) at TJ? What is the minimum SAT score for Ivies, top 30, flagship state school, etc.?

By this logic if I can catch a football and run 50 yards I should be eligible to be selected for the varsity football team. Shouldn’t matter that someone else can do it better than I can! As long as we both meet that “minimum requirement” then I deserve a slot on the team same as the guy who has “prepped” by playing in peewee league or who can throw a spiral with 90% accuracy.
Why are we pretending that every candidate has academic talent/ability that is equivalent to every other candidate who meets an arbitrary minimum? We don’t do that in sports? Why do that in academics?

I was responding to the OP, maybe you, that used pilots and driving as examples. The tests for those examples are minimum standards. The TJ test is not a "minimum bar" as stated in the original posts because the goal is to get the highest score for admittance.

The goal of professional sports is to win with the best players. That is not the goal of education in general or most professions. My friend, who is an excellent doctor and went to a top 5 medical school and was top of his class still acknowledges that his cohort that graduated from medical school at the bottom of the class are still doctors. Now I admit that I would want to see the best doctor if I were sick but our educational system, at least in the US, is not based on the highest scores or most talented, like sports, music, etc.

I think there should be a test but no fee. I just think the analogy used above is weak and also doesn't acknowledge the reality of the US education system and the values/beliefs that it is based on.

TJ is a magnet school for those with exceptional talents in STEM - a high school for the BEST stem Player.

Read the mission statement:

Mission Statement
The mission of Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology is to provide students with a challenging learning environment focused on math, science, and technology, to inspire joy at the prospect of discovery, and to foster a culture of innovation based on ethical behavior and the shared interests of humanity. https://tjhsst.fcps.edu/about

Nothing about a school for the best STEM students or even gifted students. FCPS decides what TJ is as a magnet and who it is for. Your definition of the school doesn't match with the FCPS's objectives.

You should also know that the mission statement changes every few years to suits the political needs of the school board.

You're right, which doesn't change my point. If the school board can change the mission of the school than they can decide who the school is for. TJ doesn't equal Best STEM player. Again, comparing to sports is pointless.

Wrong. It's a Governor's School. From the Virginia DOE website:


Purpose of the Governor's Schools
Governor's Schools give gifted students academic and visual and performing arts opportunities beyond those normally available in the students' home schools. Students are able to focus on a specific area of intellectual or artistic strength and interest and to study in a way that best suits the gifted learner's needs. Each program stresses non-traditional teaching and learning techniques. For example, small-group instruction, hands-on-experiences, research, field studies, or realistic or artistic productions are major elements in the instructional design at all schools. Students become scientists, writers, artists, and performers as they work with professional mentors and instructors. Every effort is made to tailor learning to needs of the community of learners that compose the program.

The Virginia Governor's School Program has been designed to assist divisions as they meet the needs of a small population of students whose learning levels are remarkably different from their age-level peers. The foundation of the Virginia Governor's School Program centers on best practices in the field of gifted education and the presentation of advanced content to able learners.

History of the Governor’s School
The Virginia Governor's School Program began in 1973 when Governor Linwood Holton established the first summer residential programs for 400 gifted students from across the commonwealth. From its beginnings, with three summer schools in 1973, the program has expanded to more than 40 sites throughout the commonwealth.

Virginia Governor's Schools provide some of the state's most able students academically and artistically challenging programs beyond those offered in their home schools. With the support of the Virginia Board of Education and the General Assembly, the Governor's Schools presently include summer residential, summer regional, and academic-year programs serving more than 7,500 gifted students from all parts of the commonwealth.

The years since 1973 have brought refinement and change to the programs, yet one aspect, the student, has remained constant. Each year, hundreds of outstanding young people come to one of the different Governor's Schools in search of knowledge and eager to accept the challenge of acquiring advanced skills. Each group makes the Governor's School programs a special experience by creating a community of learners who demonstrate their remarkable talents in diverse and meaningful ways.

Three types of Governor's Schools provide appropriate learning endeavors for gifted students throughout the commonwealth: Academic-Year Governor's Schools (AYGS), Summer Residential Governor's Schools (SRsGS) and the Summer Regional Governor's Schools (SRgGS).

Academic-Year Governor's Schools
Summer Residential Governor's Schools
Summer Regional Governor's Schools

Good point. It says it right there in black and white: "The Virginia Governor's School Program has been designed to assist divisions as they meet the needs of a small population of students whose learning levels are remarkably different from their age-level peers. The foundation of the Virginia Governor's School Program centers on best practices in the field of gifted education and the presentation of advanced content to able learners."

FCPS Board doesn't care. Give it up.

Court in edva, court of appeals for the fourth circuit and the Supreme Court will care so no there is no giving up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eh, some states don’t even require law school.

FWIW, I’m an attorney. Law school did not teach me how to actually practice law. I had no classes in client consultations, deposition prep, depositions, mother drafting, drafting and reviewing discovery, preparing settlement agreements or retainers, etc.

I assure you that going to law school does not assure competence. It assures a standard amount of basic general legal knowledge but really nothing more than that.

But you still have to pass the bar.

Not sure how that answers the competency question, but yes. A new lawyer has had zero training in the actual practice of law.

It's a minimum. You should be able to meet some standard. Should airline pilots have to show they can fly a plane or not? As someone mentioned, should we eliminate the driving test? A passing score on the road test does not prove that you're a good driver, just that you understand the minimum of how to actually drive a car and the rules of the road.

I feel we will come full circle with testing. SOLs or common core tests were put in place to make sure that students of all schools, poor or not receive the same education and that teachers are actually teaching a set forth curriculum.

The TJ test is no different. It is a minimum bar.

NP: I think tests are important but the TJ test is not a minimum bar. If students needed to achieve a minimum score on the test to be considered for admissions your analogy would work. That may be the solution for TJ and the SATs for college admissions. What is the minimum score to succeed (B avg?) at TJ? What is the minimum SAT score for Ivies, top 30, flagship state school, etc.?

By this logic if I can catch a football and run 50 yards I should be eligible to be selected for the varsity football team. Shouldn’t matter that someone else can do it better than I can! As long as we both meet that “minimum requirement” then I deserve a slot on the team same as the guy who has “prepped” by playing in peewee league or who can throw a spiral with 90% accuracy.
Why are we pretending that every candidate has academic talent/ability that is equivalent to every other candidate who meets an arbitrary minimum? We don’t do that in sports? Why do that in academics?

I was responding to the OP, maybe you, that used pilots and driving as examples. The tests for those examples are minimum standards. The TJ test is not a "minimum bar" as stated in the original posts because the goal is to get the highest score for admittance.

The goal of professional sports is to win with the best players. That is not the goal of education in general or most professions. My friend, who is an excellent doctor and went to a top 5 medical school and was top of his class still acknowledges that his cohort that graduated from medical school at the bottom of the class are still doctors. Now I admit that I would want to see the best doctor if I were sick but our educational system, at least in the US, is not based on the highest scores or most talented, like sports, music, etc.

I think there should be a test but no fee. I just think the analogy used above is weak and also doesn't acknowledge the reality of the US education system and the values/beliefs that it is based on.

TJ is a magnet school for those with exceptional talents in STEM - a high school for the BEST stem Player.

Read the mission statement:

Mission Statement
The mission of Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology is to provide students with a challenging learning environment focused on math, science, and technology, to inspire joy at the prospect of discovery, and to foster a culture of innovation based on ethical behavior and the shared interests of humanity. https://tjhsst.fcps.edu/about

Nothing about a school for the best STEM students or even gifted students. FCPS decides what TJ is as a magnet and who it is for. Your definition of the school doesn't match with the FCPS's objectives.

You should also know that the mission statement changes every few years to suits the political needs of the school board.

You're right, which doesn't change my point. If the school board can change the mission of the school than they can decide who the school is for. TJ doesn't equal Best STEM player. Again, comparing to sports is pointless.

Ok TJ is for the average stem players despite it being ranked as the best high school in the country with the highest average sat scores and the most post ap courses and the best research equipments and labs including a super computer.

I give up-- your thinking is myopic and you don't seem to understand that your arguments use circular reasoning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eh, some states don’t even require law school.

FWIW, I’m an attorney. Law school did not teach me how to actually practice law. I had no classes in client consultations, deposition prep, depositions, mother drafting, drafting and reviewing discovery, preparing settlement agreements or retainers, etc.

I assure you that going to law school does not assure competence. It assures a standard amount of basic general legal knowledge but really nothing more than that.

But you still have to pass the bar.

Not sure how that answers the competency question, but yes. A new lawyer has had zero training in the actual practice of law.

It's a minimum. You should be able to meet some standard. Should airline pilots have to show they can fly a plane or not? As someone mentioned, should we eliminate the driving test? A passing score on the road test does not prove that you're a good driver, just that you understand the minimum of how to actually drive a car and the rules of the road.

I feel we will come full circle with testing. SOLs or common core tests were put in place to make sure that students of all schools, poor or not receive the same education and that teachers are actually teaching a set forth curriculum.

The TJ test is no different. It is a minimum bar.

NP: I think tests are important but the TJ test is not a minimum bar. If students needed to achieve a minimum score on the test to be considered for admissions your analogy would work. That may be the solution for TJ and the SATs for college admissions. What is the minimum score to succeed (B avg?) at TJ? What is the minimum SAT score for Ivies, top 30, flagship state school, etc.?

By this logic if I can catch a football and run 50 yards I should be eligible to be selected for the varsity football team. Shouldn’t matter that someone else can do it better than I can! As long as we both meet that “minimum requirement” then I deserve a slot on the team same as the guy who has “prepped” by playing in peewee league or who can throw a spiral with 90% accuracy.
Why are we pretending that every candidate has academic talent/ability that is equivalent to every other candidate who meets an arbitrary minimum? We don’t do that in sports? Why do that in academics?

I was responding to the OP, maybe you, that used pilots and driving as examples. The tests for those examples are minimum standards. The TJ test is not a "minimum bar" as stated in the original posts because the goal is to get the highest score for admittance.

The goal of professional sports is to win with the best players. That is not the goal of education in general or most professions. My friend, who is an excellent doctor and went to a top 5 medical school and was top of his class still acknowledges that his cohort that graduated from medical school at the bottom of the class are still doctors. Now I admit that I would want to see the best doctor if I were sick but our educational system, at least in the US, is not based on the highest scores or most talented, like sports, music, etc.

I think there should be a test but no fee. I just think the analogy used above is weak and also doesn't acknowledge the reality of the US education system and the values/beliefs that it is based on.

TJ is a magnet school for those with exceptional talents in STEM - a high school for the BEST stem Player.

Read the mission statement:

Mission Statement
The mission of Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology is to provide students with a challenging learning environment focused on math, science, and technology, to inspire joy at the prospect of discovery, and to foster a culture of innovation based on ethical behavior and the shared interests of humanity. https://tjhsst.fcps.edu/about

Nothing about a school for the best STEM students or even gifted students. FCPS decides what TJ is as a magnet and who it is for. Your definition of the school doesn't match with the FCPS's objectives.

You should also know that the mission statement changes every few years to suits the political needs of the school board.

You're right, which doesn't change my point. If the school board can change the mission of the school than they can decide who the school is for. TJ doesn't equal Best STEM player. Again, comparing to sports is pointless.

Wrong. It's a Governor's School. From the Virginia DOE website:


Purpose of the Governor's Schools
Governor's Schools give gifted students academic and visual and performing arts opportunities beyond those normally available in the students' home schools. Students are able to focus on a specific area of intellectual or artistic strength and interest and to study in a way that best suits the gifted learner's needs. Each program stresses non-traditional teaching and learning techniques. For example, small-group instruction, hands-on-experiences, research, field studies, or realistic or artistic productions are major elements in the instructional design at all schools. Students become scientists, writers, artists, and performers as they work with professional mentors and instructors. Every effort is made to tailor learning to needs of the community of learners that compose the program.

The Virginia Governor's School Program has been designed to assist divisions as they meet the needs of a small population of students whose learning levels are remarkably different from their age-level peers. The foundation of the Virginia Governor's School Program centers on best practices in the field of gifted education and the presentation of advanced content to able learners.

History of the Governor’s School
The Virginia Governor's School Program began in 1973 when Governor Linwood Holton established the first summer residential programs for 400 gifted students from across the commonwealth. From its beginnings, with three summer schools in 1973, the program has expanded to more than 40 sites throughout the commonwealth.

Virginia Governor's Schools provide some of the state's most able students academically and artistically challenging programs beyond those offered in their home schools. With the support of the Virginia Board of Education and the General Assembly, the Governor's Schools presently include summer residential, summer regional, and academic-year programs serving more than 7,500 gifted students from all parts of the commonwealth.

The years since 1973 have brought refinement and change to the programs, yet one aspect, the student, has remained constant. Each year, hundreds of outstanding young people come to one of the different Governor's Schools in search of knowledge and eager to accept the challenge of acquiring advanced skills. Each group makes the Governor's School programs a special experience by creating a community of learners who demonstrate their remarkable talents in diverse and meaningful ways.

Three types of Governor's Schools provide appropriate learning endeavors for gifted students throughout the commonwealth: Academic-Year Governor's Schools (AYGS), Summer Residential Governor's Schools (SRsGS) and the Summer Regional Governor's Schools (SRgGS).

Academic-Year Governor's Schools
Summer Residential Governor's Schools
Summer Regional Governor's Schools

Good point. It says it right there in black and white: "The Virginia Governor's School Program has been designed to assist divisions as they meet the needs of a small population of students whose learning levels are remarkably different from their age-level peers. The foundation of the Virginia Governor's School Program centers on best practices in the field of gifted education and the presentation of advanced content to able learners."

FCPS Board doesn't care. Give it up.

Court in edva, court of appeals for the fourth circuit and the Supreme Court will care so no there is no giving up.

I guess we'll see if they care. Obviously, nothing will happen in time to help your kids get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eh, some states don’t even require law school.

FWIW, I’m an attorney. Law school did not teach me how to actually practice law. I had no classes in client consultations, deposition prep, depositions, mother drafting, drafting and reviewing discovery, preparing settlement agreements or retainers, etc.

I assure you that going to law school does not assure competence. It assures a standard amount of basic general legal knowledge but really nothing more than that.

But you still have to pass the bar.

Not sure how that answers the competency question, but yes. A new lawyer has had zero training in the actual practice of law.

It's a minimum. You should be able to meet some standard. Should airline pilots have to show they can fly a plane or not? As someone mentioned, should we eliminate the driving test? A passing score on the road test does not prove that you're a good driver, just that you understand the minimum of how to actually drive a car and the rules of the road.

I feel we will come full circle with testing. SOLs or common core tests were put in place to make sure that students of all schools, poor or not receive the same education and that teachers are actually teaching a set forth curriculum.

The TJ test is no different. It is a minimum bar.

NP: I think tests are important but the TJ test is not a minimum bar. If students needed to achieve a minimum score on the test to be considered for admissions your analogy would work. That may be the solution for TJ and the SATs for college admissions. What is the minimum score to succeed (B avg?) at TJ? What is the minimum SAT score for Ivies, top 30, flagship state school, etc.?

By this logic if I can catch a football and run 50 yards I should be eligible to be selected for the varsity football team. Shouldn’t matter that someone else can do it better than I can! As long as we both meet that “minimum requirement” then I deserve a slot on the team same as the guy who has “prepped” by playing in peewee league or who can throw a spiral with 90% accuracy.
Why are we pretending that every candidate has academic talent/ability that is equivalent to every other candidate who meets an arbitrary minimum? We don’t do that in sports? Why do that in academics?

I was responding to the OP, maybe you, that used pilots and driving as examples. The tests for those examples are minimum standards. The TJ test is not a "minimum bar" as stated in the original posts because the goal is to get the highest score for admittance.

The goal of professional sports is to win with the best players. That is not the goal of education in general or most professions. My friend, who is an excellent doctor and went to a top 5 medical school and was top of his class still acknowledges that his cohort that graduated from medical school at the bottom of the class are still doctors. Now I admit that I would want to see the best doctor if I were sick but our educational system, at least in the US, is not based on the highest scores or most talented, like sports, music, etc.

I think there should be a test but no fee. I just think the analogy used above is weak and also doesn't acknowledge the reality of the US education system and the values/beliefs that it is based on.

TJ is a magnet school for those with exceptional talents in STEM - a high school for the BEST stem Player.

Read the mission statement:

Mission Statement
The mission of Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology is to provide students with a challenging learning environment focused on math, science, and technology, to inspire joy at the prospect of discovery, and to foster a culture of innovation based on ethical behavior and the shared interests of humanity. https://tjhsst.fcps.edu/about

Nothing about a school for the best STEM students or even gifted students. FCPS decides what TJ is as a magnet and who it is for. Your definition of the school doesn't match with the FCPS's objectives.

You should also know that the mission statement changes every few years to suits the political needs of the school board.

You're right, which doesn't change my point. If the school board can change the mission of the school than they can decide who the school is for. TJ doesn't equal Best STEM player. Again, comparing to sports is pointless.

Wrong. It's a Governor's School. From the Virginia DOE website:


Purpose of the Governor's Schools
Governor's Schools give gifted students academic and visual and performing arts opportunities beyond those normally available in the students' home schools. Students are able to focus on a specific area of intellectual or artistic strength and interest and to study in a way that best suits the gifted learner's needs. Each program stresses non-traditional teaching and learning techniques. For example, small-group instruction, hands-on-experiences, research, field studies, or realistic or artistic productions are major elements in the instructional design at all schools. Students become scientists, writers, artists, and performers as they work with professional mentors and instructors. Every effort is made to tailor learning to needs of the community of learners that compose the program.

The Virginia Governor's School Program has been designed to assist divisions as they meet the needs of a small population of students whose learning levels are remarkably different from their age-level peers. The foundation of the Virginia Governor's School Program centers on best practices in the field of gifted education and the presentation of advanced content to able learners.

History of the Governor’s School
The Virginia Governor's School Program began in 1973 when Governor Linwood Holton established the first summer residential programs for 400 gifted students from across the commonwealth. From its beginnings, with three summer schools in 1973, the program has expanded to more than 40 sites throughout the commonwealth.

Virginia Governor's Schools provide some of the state's most able students academically and artistically challenging programs beyond those offered in their home schools. With the support of the Virginia Board of Education and the General Assembly, the Governor's Schools presently include summer residential, summer regional, and academic-year programs serving more than 7,500 gifted students from all parts of the commonwealth.

The years since 1973 have brought refinement and change to the programs, yet one aspect, the student, has remained constant. Each year, hundreds of outstanding young people come to one of the different Governor's Schools in search of knowledge and eager to accept the challenge of acquiring advanced skills. Each group makes the Governor's School programs a special experience by creating a community of learners who demonstrate their remarkable talents in diverse and meaningful ways.

Three types of Governor's Schools provide appropriate learning endeavors for gifted students throughout the commonwealth: Academic-Year Governor's Schools (AYGS), Summer Residential Governor's Schools (SRsGS) and the Summer Regional Governor's Schools (SRgGS).

Academic-Year Governor's Schools
Summer Residential Governor's Schools
Summer Regional Governor's Schools

Good point. It says it right there in black and white: "The Virginia Governor's School Program has been designed to assist divisions as they meet the needs of a small population of students whose learning levels are remarkably different from their age-level peers. The foundation of the Virginia Governor's School Program centers on best practices in the field of gifted education and the presentation of advanced content to able learners."

FCPS Board doesn't care. Give it up.

Court in edva, court of appeals for the fourth circuit and the Supreme Court will care so no there is no giving up.

I guess we'll see if they care. Obviously, nothing will happen in time to help your kids get in.

My kid graduated long time ago so it won’t affect my kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

FCPS Board doesn't care. Give it up.

Court in edva, court of appeals for the fourth circuit and the Supreme Court will care so no there is no giving up.

I guess we'll see if they care. Obviously, nothing will happen in time to help your kids get in.

DP. Maybe, maybe not. Since PP's DC is only 4, it might be litigated in time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eh, some states don’t even require law school.

FWIW, I’m an attorney. Law school did not teach me how to actually practice law. I had no classes in client consultations, deposition prep, depositions, mother drafting, drafting and reviewing discovery, preparing settlement agreements or retainers, etc.

I assure you that going to law school does not assure competence. It assures a standard amount of basic general legal knowledge but really nothing more than that.

But you still have to pass the bar.

Not sure how that answers the competency question, but yes. A new lawyer has had zero training in the actual practice of law.

It's a minimum. You should be able to meet some standard. Should airline pilots have to show they can fly a plane or not? As someone mentioned, should we eliminate the driving test? A passing score on the road test does not prove that you're a good driver, just that you understand the minimum of how to actually drive a car and the rules of the road.

I feel we will come full circle with testing. SOLs or common core tests were put in place to make sure that students of all schools, poor or not receive the same education and that teachers are actually teaching a set forth curriculum.

The TJ test is no different. It is a minimum bar.

NP: I think tests are important but the TJ test is not a minimum bar. If students needed to achieve a minimum score on the test to be considered for admissions your analogy would work. That may be the solution for TJ and the SATs for college admissions. What is the minimum score to succeed (B avg?) at TJ? What is the minimum SAT score for Ivies, top 30, flagship state school, etc.?

By this logic if I can catch a football and run 50 yards I should be eligible to be selected for the varsity football team. Shouldn’t matter that someone else can do it better than I can! As long as we both meet that “minimum requirement” then I deserve a slot on the team same as the guy who has “prepped” by playing in peewee league or who can throw a spiral with 90% accuracy.
Why are we pretending that every candidate has academic talent/ability that is equivalent to every other candidate who meets an arbitrary minimum? We don’t do that in sports? Why do that in academics?

I was responding to the OP, maybe you, that used pilots and driving as examples. The tests for those examples are minimum standards. The TJ test is not a "minimum bar" as stated in the original posts because the goal is to get the highest score for admittance.

The goal of professional sports is to win with the best players. That is not the goal of education in general or most professions. My friend, who is an excellent doctor and went to a top 5 medical school and was top of his class still acknowledges that his cohort that graduated from medical school at the bottom of the class are still doctors. Now I admit that I would want to see the best doctor if I were sick but our educational system, at least in the US, is not based on the highest scores or most talented, like sports, music, etc.

I think there should be a test but no fee. I just think the analogy used above is weak and also doesn't acknowledge the reality of the US education system and the values/beliefs that it is based on.

TJ is a magnet school for those with exceptional talents in STEM - a high school for the BEST stem Player.

Read the mission statement:

Mission Statement
The mission of Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology is to provide students with a challenging learning environment focused on math, science, and technology, to inspire joy at the prospect of discovery, and to foster a culture of innovation based on ethical behavior and the shared interests of humanity. https://tjhsst.fcps.edu/about

Nothing about a school for the best STEM students or even gifted students. FCPS decides what TJ is as a magnet and who it is for. Your definition of the school doesn't match with the FCPS's objectives.

You should also know that the mission statement changes every few years to suits the political needs of the school board.

You're right, which doesn't change my point. If the school board can change the mission of the school than they can decide who the school is for. TJ doesn't equal Best STEM player. Again, comparing to sports is pointless.

Wrong. It's a Governor's School. From the Virginia DOE website:


Purpose of the Governor's Schools
Governor's Schools give gifted students academic and visual and performing arts opportunities beyond those normally available in the students' home schools. Students are able to focus on a specific area of intellectual or artistic strength and interest and to study in a way that best suits the gifted learner's needs. Each program stresses non-traditional teaching and learning techniques. For example, small-group instruction, hands-on-experiences, research, field studies, or realistic or artistic productions are major elements in the instructional design at all schools. Students become scientists, writers, artists, and performers as they work with professional mentors and instructors. Every effort is made to tailor learning to needs of the community of learners that compose the program.

The Virginia Governor's School Program has been designed to assist divisions as they meet the needs of a small population of students whose learning levels are remarkably different from their age-level peers. The foundation of the Virginia Governor's School Program centers on best practices in the field of gifted education and the presentation of advanced content to able learners.

History of the Governor’s School
The Virginia Governor's School Program began in 1973 when Governor Linwood Holton established the first summer residential programs for 400 gifted students from across the commonwealth. From its beginnings, with three summer schools in 1973, the program has expanded to more than 40 sites throughout the commonwealth.

Virginia Governor's Schools provide some of the state's most able students academically and artistically challenging programs beyond those offered in their home schools. With the support of the Virginia Board of Education and the General Assembly, the Governor's Schools presently include summer residential, summer regional, and academic-year programs serving more than 7,500 gifted students from all parts of the commonwealth.

The years since 1973 have brought refinement and change to the programs, yet one aspect, the student, has remained constant. Each year, hundreds of outstanding young people come to one of the different Governor's Schools in search of knowledge and eager to accept the challenge of acquiring advanced skills. Each group makes the Governor's School programs a special experience by creating a community of learners who demonstrate their remarkable talents in diverse and meaningful ways.

Three types of Governor's Schools provide appropriate learning endeavors for gifted students throughout the commonwealth: Academic-Year Governor's Schools (AYGS), Summer Residential Governor's Schools (SRsGS) and the Summer Regional Governor's Schools (SRgGS).

Academic-Year Governor's Schools
Summer Residential Governor's Schools
Summer Regional Governor's Schools

Good point. It says it right there in black and white: "The Virginia Governor's School Program has been designed to assist divisions as they meet the needs of a small population of students whose learning levels are remarkably different from their age-level peers. The foundation of the Virginia Governor's School Program centers on best practices in the field of gifted education and the presentation of advanced content to able learners."

FCPS Board doesn't care. Give it up.

Court in edva, court of appeals for the fourth circuit and the Supreme Court will care so no there is no giving up.

I guess we'll see if they care. Obviously, nothing will happen in time to help your kids get in.

My kid graduated long time ago so it won’t affect my kids.

Then you don't even know what the issue is...