FCPS's "Obvious Elephant in the Room" - Does the West Potomac Expansion Foster Intolerance?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Corbett Sanders is pushing a huge addition at her school when she has been the single biggest impediment on the School Board to addressing overcrowding anywhere else in the county. Biggest hypocrite on the Board since Kathy Smith.

Corbett Sanders needs to go! Having school board meetings so well attended via the internet has really highlighted her failures as a leader.

I had never heard of Rachna before three months ago. But watching her in the school board meetings and seeing how carefully she thinks through the issues, I truly believe that Rachna should be the new chair. She is an amazing leader that is dedicated to science, the community and helping every child learn.

She also is a black woman, so this would be a PERFECT way for the board to show that they truly value BLM.

Rachna is the daughter of Indian immigrants.

She is not African American.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the point that the AAP situation justifies the addition to West Potomac?

I think it does.

Take the WSHS and LBSS en4ollment as an example.

Irving did not have an AAP center. Lake Braddock served all of the middle schools in that area, including Irving and Robinson.

6 years ago, Irving (still not a center) added a LLIV AAP class to its school.

Prior to that, the AAP kids would do everything they could to stay at Lake Braddock for high school, such as signing up for specific languages like Japanese that were only offered at LB, so they could stay at that school with all their friends, the only kids they went to school with since 3rd grade. Some would transfer back to WS, but many would stay at LB, even if they were zoned for WS.

That original pilot class at Irving was fairly small, around 24 kids. A good number of the kids who went to LB for AAP stayed there for high school.

The Irving program continued to grow. Last year it had 2 very full classes, and I suspect it will be up to 3 classes in the next year or two.

My neighbor has a rising 9th graders. A majority of that kids AAP classmates chose Irving for middle school over AAP because of attending WSHS for high school. It was the opposite when my oldest went to Irving 5 years ago. Most of their peers chose LB, because they expected to be able to find ways to continue at LB for high school with their friends.

I have a rising 7th grader, and all of the kids we know who were at the 2 AAP centers in our area have chosen Irving over LB for 7th grade AAP. One of the top 3 reasons given by their parents is that the kids want to go to the middle school that all their friends are going to so they can get to know kids they will be going to high school with.

The only 7th grade AAP kid i know who is zoned for WSHS and choosing Lake Braddock is the kid with older siblings already at LB, who are there on foreign language waivers. But even that parent has waffled a bit, because all of her kids friends are choosing Irving over LB.

The friends matter so much at that age.

If the AAP kids are with this same group from 3rd through 8th, they are going to do everything they can to stay with those friends for high school. And if the district allows them through back channels such as foreign language waivers, who can blame them.

FCPS needs to change that first, by making sure every pyramid has an AAP elementary and middle school feeder.

It won't fix the WestPo MV issue right away, but it will in 2 to 5 years, as a ever growing cohort of the advanced kids start to see MV as a viable option.

Look at the Irving to WS numbers.

Are you saying they need to add onto WestPo to fix this?

[Anonymous]

No idea what the Irving poster was going on and on about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No idea what the Irving poster was going on and on about.

The argument is apples and oranges as LBSS and WSHS are not similar to WPHS and MVHS. To compare West Springfield and Mount Vernon is confusing, as they don’t have the same challenges and resources.

[Anonymous]

Mount Vernon needs around 450 more students. The situation there is dire. Adding @ 450 seats to the adjacent school will put MV in even worse of a situation. Who is supporting the WestPo expansion and why? I haven’t seen anyone get behind it much less make the case for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mount Vernon needs around 450 more students. The situation there is dire. Adding @ 450 seats to the adjacent school will put MV in even worse of a situation. Who is supporting the WestPo expansion and why? I haven’t seen anyone get behind it much less make the case for it.

You haven't heard much about it because the School Board has discussed it as little as possible. To the extent it's gotten any attention, it's because a few members of the Board of Supervisors basically threw up in public when they heard about it.

The beneficiaries are cronies of two people: Karen Corbett Sanders (whose friends won't have to worry about icky Mount Vernon) and Jeff Platenberg (whose buddies in the construction industry will get a contract to add hundreds of unnecessary seats to a school that doesn't need them).

It is borderline, if not outright, corrupt - not to mention completely at odds with the intent of "One Fairfax" - and there should be an audit/investigation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the point that the AAP situation justifies the addition to West Potomac?

I think it does.

Take the WSHS and LBSS en4ollment as an example.

Irving did not have an AAP center. Lake Braddock served all of the middle schools in that area, including Irving and Robinson.

6 years ago, Irving (still not a center) added a LLIV AAP class to its school.

Prior to that, the AAP kids would do everything they could to stay at Lake Braddock for high school, such as signing up for specific languages like Japanese that were only offered at LB, so they could stay at that school with all their friends, the only kids they went to school with since 3rd grade. Some would transfer back to WS, but many would stay at LB, even if they were zoned for WS.

That original pilot class at Irving was fairly small, around 24 kids. A good number of the kids who went to LB for AAP stayed there for high school.

The Irving program continued to grow. Last year it had 2 very full classes, and I suspect it will be up to 3 classes in the next year or two.

My neighbor has a rising 9th graders. A majority of that kids AAP classmates chose Irving for middle school over AAP because of attending WSHS for high school. It was the opposite when my oldest went to Irving 5 years ago. Most of their peers chose LB, because they expected to be able to find ways to continue at LB for high school with their friends.

I have a rising 7th grader, and all of the kids we know who were at the 2 AAP centers in our area have chosen Irving over LB for 7th grade AAP. One of the top 3 reasons given by their parents is that the kids want to go to the middle school that all their friends are going to so they can get to know kids they will be going to high school with.

The only 7th grade AAP kid i know who is zoned for WSHS and choosing Lake Braddock is the kid with older siblings already at LB, who are there on foreign language waivers. But even that parent has waffled a bit, because all of her kids friends are choosing Irving over LB.

The friends matter so much at that age.

If the AAP kids are with this same group from 3rd through 8th, they are going to do everything they can to stay with those friends for high school. And if the district allows them through back channels such as foreign language waivers, who can blame them.

FCPS needs to change that first, by making sure every pyramid has an AAP elementary and middle school feeder.

It won't fix the WestPo MV issue right away, but it will in 2 to 5 years, as a ever growing cohort of the advanced kids start to see MV as a viable option.

Look at the Irving to WS numbers.

Are you saying they need to add onto WestPo to fix this?

Quite the opposite.

I am saying do not add on to West Potomac. That is a waste of resources better spent elsewhere.

I am saying establish an AAP program at whatever middle school feeds into Mount Vernon.

Establish an elementary school AAP program at one of the MV feeder elementary schools.

Do the same for Lee.

Eliminate IB and switch those schools to AP. Or make only one of the IB and make it an application based magnet.

Eliminate the option of going out of pyramid for AAP.

In 3 to 5 years, you will have a strong cohort of high achieving student rerurn to MV and Lee, without the need for crazy unnecessary additions at West Po, and without the need for distlruptive rezoning.

Go with the most logical, simplest, quickest and easiest solution first.

Give advanced students a reason to stay in their zoned pyramid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mount Vernon needs around 450 more students. The situation there is dire. Adding @ 450 seats to the adjacent school will put MV in even worse of a situation. Who is supporting the WestPo expansion and why? I haven’t seen anyone get behind it much less make the case for it.

This old article explains somewhat. I found it odd that but no where does it bring the extra capacity at MVHS into the equation, it is almost like it didn’t occur to anyone at this meeting.

https://coveringthecorridor.com/2018/10/west-potomac-overcrowding/

[Anonymous]

^^^ You can't just rezone advanced kids to that school without giving them comparable advanced options for learning. They will just go to private school or move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the point that the AAP situation justifies the addition to West Potomac?

I think it does.

Take the WSHS and LBSS en4ollment as an example.

Irving did not have an AAP center. Lake Braddock served all of the middle schools in that area, including Irving and Robinson.

6 years ago, Irving (still not a center) added a LLIV AAP class to its school.

Prior to that, the AAP kids would do everything they could to stay at Lake Braddock for high school, such as signing up for specific languages like Japanese that were only offered at LB, so they could stay at that school with all their friends, the only kids they went to school with since 3rd grade. Some would transfer back to WS, but many would stay at LB, even if they were zoned for WS.

That original pilot class at Irving was fairly small, around 24 kids. A good number of the kids who went to LB for AAP stayed there for high school.

The Irving program continued to grow. Last year it had 2 very full classes, and I suspect it will be up to 3 classes in the next year or two.

My neighbor has a rising 9th graders. A majority of that kids AAP classmates chose Irving for middle school over AAP because of attending WSHS for high school. It was the opposite when my oldest went to Irving 5 years ago. Most of their peers chose LB, because they expected to be able to find ways to continue at LB for high school with their friends.

I have a rising 7th grader, and all of the kids we know who were at the 2 AAP centers in our area have chosen Irving over LB for 7th grade AAP. One of the top 3 reasons given by their parents is that the kids want to go to the middle school that all their friends are going to so they can get to know kids they will be going to high school with.

The only 7th grade AAP kid i know who is zoned for WSHS and choosing Lake Braddock is the kid with older siblings already at LB, who are there on foreign language waivers. But even that parent has waffled a bit, because all of her kids friends are choosing Irving over LB.

The friends matter so much at that age.

If the AAP kids are with this same group from 3rd through 8th, they are going to do everything they can to stay with those friends for high school. And if the district allows them through back channels such as foreign language waivers, who can blame them.

FCPS needs to change that first, by making sure every pyramid has an AAP elementary and middle school feeder.

It won't fix the WestPo MV issue right away, but it will in 2 to 5 years, as a ever growing cohort of the advanced kids start to see MV as a viable option.

Look at the Irving to WS numbers.

Are you saying they need to add onto WestPo to fix this?

Quite the opposite.

I am saying do not add on to West Potomac. That is a waste of resources better spent elsewhere.

I am saying establish an AAP program at whatever middle school feeds into Mount Vernon.

Establish an elementary school AAP program at one of the MV feeder elementary schools.

Do the same for Lee.

Eliminate IB and switch those schools to AP. Or make only one of the IB and make it an application based magnet.

Eliminate the option of going out of pyramid for AAP.

In 3 to 5 years, you will have a strong cohort of high achieving student rerurn to MV and Lee, without the need for crazy unnecessary additions at West Po, and without the need for distlruptive rezoning.

Go with the most logical, simplest, quickest and easiest solution first.

Give advanced students a reason to stay in their zoned pyramid.

Everyone got confused because you replied "I think it does" in response to the question "Is the point that the AAP situation justifies the addition to West Potomac?"

Now you are saying the opposite, which makes more sense given the rest of your post(s).

But as others have noted the dynamic between Lake Braddock and West Springfield is very different from that between West Potomac and Mount Vernon. Everything FCPS does that touches on Mount Vernon makes it seem like even more of a pariah school to be avoided, and that hasn't been the case at all where West Springfield is concerned, even if WS loses some AAP kids to Lake Braddock.

[Anonymous]

True, WS is sitting at a much better starting point than MV.

But if there is no advanced options in that feeder pattern at elementary, middle or high school, why on earth would anyone expect parents of advanced or academically focused kids to not fight being sent to MV?

Fcps needs to show that there is a path for high achieving students in their pyramid. Right now there is nothing there for them, and the "advanced" program of IB only exists as a ticket to pupil place to the nearest AP school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^^ You can't just rezone advanced kids to that school without giving them comparable advanced options for learning. They will just go to private school or move.

Can you clarify - are you saying the solution is to build those advanced kids a $36 million addition to WestPo so they don’t leave and go to private school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ You can't just rezone advanced kids to that school without giving them comparable advanced options for learning. They will just go to private school or move.

Can you clarify - are you saying the solution is to build those advanced kids a $36 million addition to WestPo so they don’t leave and go to private school?

The solution is to create an AAP elementary program in one of the MV feeder schools, and an AAP program in the MV feeder middle school, and an AP program at MV, so advanced kids zoned for MV no longer have a reason to try to pupil place to West Potomac.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:True, WS is sitting at a much better starting point than MV.

But if there is no advanced options in that feeder pattern at elementary, middle or high school, why on earth would anyone expect parents of advanced or academically focused kids to not fight being sent to MV?

Fcps needs to show that there is a path for high achieving students in their pyramid. Right now there is nothing there for them, and the "advanced" program of IB only exists as a ticket to pupil place to the nearest AP school.

This is PP, and I agree with all this.

[Anonymous]

I've subbed frequently at MVHS, WPHS and Hayfield. Of the 3, I really like Hayfield and MVHS the most. Smaller footprint for the HS, less students, teachers that seem to be really engaged. MVHS especially has the great culinary arts academy program on-site, with its own restaurant that teachers can go to for lunch. I always made sure to sub at MVHS on those days. Great food and training for the kids!

I agree that if they were to add an AAP and AP programs to MVHS, it would make a big difference in convincing neighorhood families to stay. Whenever anyone is on the fence, it's the AP issue that seems to push them to WPHS or Hayfield as much as anything. If AP was offered and neighborhood families collectively decided to stay at MVHS in mass, the dynamics would become very similar to WPHS right off the bat.