World language

[Anonymous]

If you have to pressure your kid to do this stuff (take 4+ years of FL, take hard math) the kid probably isn’t meant for the top schools anyway. These schools are elite. They aren’t meant for average students who have to overextend themselves to get there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 The Common Data Set. A great resource. The point is to have the coursework to be successful in the desired college major. If a major is going to require extensive foreign language, it was available to the student in HS, and they didn't take it. Why not? A STEM or engineering major, isn't going to need much/any FL and it's ok if their HS record reflects that.

For those of you that have kids just finishing college or finished in the last few years.. What's the practical value of a FL education? How has that made a difference in their work lives or given them a leg up in getting a job?

Haven't YOU lived in the world? Of course it is an advantage to speak more than one language.

It opens places for travel and work. For example, when you visit other countries, if you want to leave major cities, you often need to speak the native language (with a few exceptions, such as Scandinavia). It exposes you to new foods and culture/art/literature. It helps you understand linguistic nuance, and other perspectives.

What a sad, odd question.

Spanish 1-4 in hs isn’t going to get a kid anywhere close to that level of fluency. A minor in Spanish in college (That’s shoved down my kid’s throat constantly) won’t either.

You're so right. The previous poster is delusional about gaining fluency with merely high school Spanish. Spanish was the most common Foreign Language taken at my high school, so basically 90% of all students were on this track. I know of 1 PERSON who started from scratch in high school with no Spanish skills or heritage, and went on to speaking it at a high level. She didn't just stop taking that language, she actually majored in it and also had to go abroad for at least 1 semester. That's nearly 8+ years of complete dedication to the language to be able to gain fluency. Now she works at a job that requires her to use it every day so it continues to be easy for her to maintain her skills. Most kids take it because they have to in high school, and then don't use it daily or have any reason to continue taking it in college, these kids cannot speak Spanish. That's just absurd to imply that high school FL can create bilinguals. Kids whose parents have resources to send them to other countries in the summers, hire tutors or nannies, have a much higher chance of gaining mastery. To suggest that any random kid taking high school classes can just suddenly be able to speak that language is absurd. It takes a lot of outside work and commitment that goes far beyond what happens in the classrooms.

[Anonymous]

No one implied that high school FL confer fluency. Perhaps you need to go back and re-read the previous posts, more slowly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 The Common Data Set. A great resource. The point is to have the coursework to be successful in the desired college major. If a major is going to require extensive foreign language, it was available to the student in HS, and they didn't take it. Why not? A STEM or engineering major, isn't going to need much/any FL and it's ok if their HS record reflects that.

For those of you that have kids just finishing college or finished in the last few years.. What's the practical value of a FL education? How has that made a difference in their work lives or given them a leg up in getting a job?

Haven't YOU lived in the world? Of course it is an advantage to speak more than one language.

It opens places for travel and work. For example, when you visit other countries, if you want to leave major cities, you often need to speak the native language (with a few exceptions, such as Scandinavia). It exposes you to new foods and culture/art/literature. It helps you understand linguistic nuance, and other perspectives.

What a sad, odd question.

Spanish 1-4 in hs isn’t going to get a kid anywhere close to that level of fluency. A minor in Spanish in college (That’s shoved down my kid’s throat constantly) won’t either.

You're so right. The previous poster is delusional about gaining fluency with merely high school Spanish. Spanish was the most common Foreign Language taken at my high school, so basically 90% of all students were on this track. I know of 1 PERSON who started from scratch in high school with no Spanish skills or heritage, and went on to speaking it at a high level. She didn't just stop taking that language, she actually majored in it and also had to go abroad for at least 1 semester. That's nearly 8+ years of complete dedication to the language to be able to gain fluency. Now she works at a job that requires her to use it every day so it continues to be easy for her to maintain her skills. Most kids take it because they have to in high school, and then don't use it daily or have any reason to continue taking it in college, these kids cannot speak Spanish. That's just absurd to imply that high school FL can create bilinguals. Kids whose parents have resources to send them to other countries in the summers, hire tutors or nannies, have a much higher chance of gaining mastery. To suggest that any random kid taking high school classes can just suddenly be able to speak that language is absurd. It takes a lot of outside work and commitment that goes far beyond what happens in the classrooms.

+ I am the PP that somehow offended another poster because I didn't engage in cultural discourse with a Mexican day laborer.. This is exactly my point. If kids are not gaining fluency with 4 years of language in HS, what is it that college expect them to do when they arrive in college? Read books to homeless spanish children via Zoom? Most kids will try to waive taking spanish in college and even if they don't I bet the requirement is no more than one year of language. Why do they insist on this pretentiousness?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 The Common Data Set. A great resource. The point is to have the coursework to be successful in the desired college major. If a major is going to require extensive foreign language, it was available to the student in HS, and they didn't take it. Why not? A STEM or engineering major, isn't going to need much/any FL and it's ok if their HS record reflects that.

For those of you that have kids just finishing college or finished in the last few years.. What's the practical value of a FL education? How has that made a difference in their work lives or given them a leg up in getting a job?

I speak another language that is not Spanish. Doesn't do anything for me. It helps that I can speak to my family but that's it. When I visit my birth country I can speak to the people and order things, but that's as far as usefulness go. Job? No, doesn't help me there.

If you are talking monetary or job prospects, I can tell you that Spanish skills will give you a very good advantage in fields like education and social services. In education especially, besides nepotism/favoritism, Spanish skills will set you far above the other candidates. Don't have to worry about finding a job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No one implied that high school FL confer fluency. Perhaps you need to go back and re-read the previous posts, more slowly.

Being able to actually take to people in Spanish-speaking countries is fluency. And hs FL won’t get you that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 The Common Data Set. A great resource. The point is to have the coursework to be successful in the desired college major. If a major is going to require extensive foreign language, it was available to the student in HS, and they didn't take it. Why not? A STEM or engineering major, isn't going to need much/any FL and it's ok if their HS record reflects that.

For those of you that have kids just finishing college or finished in the last few years.. What's the practical value of a FL education? How has that made a difference in their work lives or given them a leg up in getting a job?

Haven't YOU lived in the world? Of course it is an advantage to speak more than one language.

It opens places for travel and work. For example, when you visit other countries, if you want to leave major cities, you often need to speak the native language (with a few exceptions, such as Scandinavia). It exposes you to new foods and culture/art/literature. It helps you understand linguistic nuance, and other perspectives.

What a sad, odd question.

Spanish 1-4 in hs isn’t going to get a kid anywhere close to that level of fluency. A minor in Spanish in college (That’s shoved down my kid’s throat constantly) won’t either.

You're so right. The previous poster is delusional about gaining fluency with merely high school Spanish. Spanish was the most common Foreign Language taken at my high school, so basically 90% of all students were on this track. I know of 1 PERSON who started from scratch in high school with no Spanish skills or heritage, and went on to speaking it at a high level. She didn't just stop taking that language, she actually majored in it and also had to go abroad for at least 1 semester. That's nearly 8+ years of complete dedication to the language to be able to gain fluency. Now she works at a job that requires her to use it every day so it continues to be easy for her to maintain her skills. Most kids take it because they have to in high school, and then don't use it daily or have any reason to continue taking it in college, these kids cannot speak Spanish. That's just absurd to imply that high school FL can create bilinguals. Kids whose parents have resources to send them to other countries in the summers, hire tutors or nannies, have a much higher chance of gaining mastery. To suggest that any random kid taking high school classes can just suddenly be able to speak that language is absurd. It takes a lot of outside work and commitment that goes far beyond what happens in the classrooms.

+ I am the PP that somehow offended another poster because I didn't engage in cultural discourse with a Mexican day laborer.. This is exactly my point. If kids are not gaining fluency with 4 years of language in HS, what is it that college expect them to do when they arrive in college? Read books to homeless spanish children via Zoom? Most kids will try to waive taking spanish in college and even if they don't I bet the requirement is no more than one year of language. Why do they insist on this pretentiousness?

They're looking for things to be outraged about that's why. So if I order Chinese food, I am required to discuss the food industry with any Chinese-speaking staff member? So stupid.

I believe colleges want to see "rigor." And that is what they define as "rigor." Whether you agree with them or not is beside the point.

[Anonymous]

NP here. There's the ideal, and there's reality. I travel. I've worked internationally. I've lived in foreign countries. I've worked had to learn foreign language(s) and I'm pretty terrible at it. Do I hope my children are better? Yes!! Will they have that an a strength? I don't know. But knowing something is ideal doesn't make it happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one implied that high school FL confer fluency. Perhaps you need to go back and re-read the previous posts, more slowly.

Being able to actually take to people in Spanish-speaking countries is fluency. And hs FL won’t get you that.

Agreed. This poster claimed you often need to speak to people in their native language if you are outside of the major cities. I can say "Hola." I guess that counts . My Spanish classes were not in vain!!

I speak another language that is not Spanish. I visit my birth country several times over the last decade, and saw all kinds of foreigners who don't speak a lick of my language walking around just fine.

They don't need to know crap. Many people travel to places where they don't speak the language ALL THE TIME. Would it be more convenient? Yes it would. But is that worth spending years and years of your life on potential convenience for traveling maybe a few times a year max?

Even if you want a job teaching a foreign language, which is actually a good reason to pursue FL fluency, many districts who can afford to be more selective won't hire people who are not native speakers anyway regardless of how good they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one implied that high school FL confer fluency. Perhaps you need to go back and re-read the previous posts, more slowly.

Being able to actually take to people in Spanish-speaking countries is fluency. And hs FL won’t get you that.

Agreed. This poster claimed you often need to speak to people in their native language if you are outside of the major cities. I can say "Hola." I guess that counts . My Spanish classes were not in vain!!

I speak another language that is not Spanish. I visit my birth country several times over the last decade, and saw all kinds of foreigners who don't speak a lick of my language walking around just fine.

They don't need to know crap. Many people travel to places where they don't speak the language ALL THE TIME. Would it be more convenient? Yes it would. But is that worth spending years and years of your life on potential convenience for traveling maybe a few times a year max?

Even if you want a job teaching a foreign language, which is actually a good reason to pursue FL fluency, many districts who can afford to be more selective won't hire people who are not native speakers anyway regardless of how good they are.

+1 I went to sh*tty public schools and none of my Spanish teachers were native speakers. It was a joke. On another note, I really wish that curriculums were standardized across school districts, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 The Common Data Set. A great resource. The point is to have the coursework to be successful in the desired college major. If a major is going to require extensive foreign language, it was available to the student in HS, and they didn't take it. Why not? A STEM or engineering major, isn't going to need much/any FL and it's ok if their HS record reflects that.

For those of you that have kids just finishing college or finished in the last few years.. What's the practical value of a FL education? How has that made a difference in their work lives or given them a leg up in getting a job?

I speak another language that is not Spanish. Doesn't do anything for me. It helps that I can speak to my family but that's it. When I visit my birth country I can speak to the people and order things, but that's as far as usefulness go. Job? No, doesn't help me there.

If you are talking monetary or job prospects, I can tell you that Spanish skills will give you a very good advantage in fields like education and social services. In education especially, besides nepotism/favoritism, Spanish skills will set you far above the other candidates. Don't have to worry about finding a job.

Thank you! This is the kind of information I was looking for..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here. There's the ideal, and there's reality. I travel. I've worked internationally. I've lived in foreign countries. I've worked had to learn foreign language(s) and I'm pretty terrible at it. Do I hope my children are better? Yes!! Will they have that an a strength? I don't know. But knowing something is ideal doesn't make it happen.

Absolutely agree with this.. As long as the kid loves languages and wants to learn, that's great. If it is to check a box and potentially not do other things you really love, that's stupidity.

[Anonymous]

If kids learn a language that they are genuinely interested in, then they are more likely to seek out opportunities to practice and maintain what they learned. Learning a language for the purpose of "necessity" - you have to learn it to get a job or be able to speak to your grandparents - is also something that will help kids be more motivated to do things outside the classroom that will help them become fluent.

But most people don't have any of those reasons. Most kids don't know what kinds of careers they want in 9th grade. And then there is a "requirement" that they must take FL regardless of whether or not they are interested in it. Kids are FORCED to take it to check off a box for high school graduation or college entrance.

Even colleges REQUIRE 2 semesters or more. My undergrad required 4 semesters - but you could test out of a few credits or all the credits if your skills were strong enough or you had AP language credits. The system is pointless. Depending on your skills or credits, you are potentially paying for 12 credits to check off a box whether you want to or not. That's not to mention the amount of time and energy you need to put in to get a decent grade. But if you want to get that degree, gotta play the game and get those classes done.

So yes, a lot of kids in both HS and college are required to participate in this "stupidity" merely to check off a box.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If kids learn a language that they are genuinely interested in, then they are more likely to seek out opportunities to practice and maintain what they learned. Learning a language for the purpose of "necessity" - you have to learn it to get a job or be able to speak to your grandparents - is also something that will help kids be more motivated to do things outside the classroom that will help them become fluent.

But most people don't have any of those reasons. Most kids don't know what kinds of careers they want in 9th grade. And then there is a "requirement" that they must take FL regardless of whether or not they are interested in it. Kids are FORCED to take it to check off a box for high school graduation or college entrance.

Even colleges REQUIRE 2 semesters or more. My undergrad required 4 semesters - but you could test out of a few credits or all the credits if your skills were strong enough or you had AP language credits. The system is pointless. Depending on your skills or credits, you are potentially paying for 12 credits to check off a box whether you want to or not. That's not to mention the amount of time and energy you need to put in to get a decent grade. But if you want to get that degree, gotta play the game and get those classes done.

So yes, a lot of kids in both HS and college are required to participate in this "stupidity" merely to check off a box.

My kid’s college uses a standardized placement test and it literally only had 4 questions. 4. And they were all multiple choice.

[Anonymous]

Most strong school districts start world languages in 6th or 7th. That's been the standard for decades (I started in 6th myself).

If your kid is average, continue the language work in HS and fulfill whatever the requirements are. If your kid is above average, they should probably be able to exceed the requirements. If your child is exceptional, they should be able to blow the requirements away.