The value of a liberal arts degree?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The return on investment for a STEM degree is about double that of a LA egree, based on the same data set.

A STEM degree can be a liberal arts degree! You just get it at a school with a liberal arts core curriculum rather than a technical school or large university with specialized departments. I got a chem major at a liberal arts college. It's a liberal arts degree (and has served me well). My husband has a sociology major at a liberal arts college. It's also a liberal arts degree and has served him well.

Large universities can offer liberal arts educations. In fact, most of them do.

The difference is liberal arts colleges specialize in them, usually resulting in fewer graduate programs.

The largest school at UVA by far is the liberal arts college.

Oh my god. You people are so ignorant about this terminology.

A liberal arts college is a college without extensive graduate programs. That's why it's not considered a university.

That's in contrast to an undergrad college that sits within a university.

A college can be an independent institution (a Liberal Arts College) or a component of a university. In the case of UVA, the largest component by enrollment by far is the College of Arts and Sciences, which is focused on liberal arts. Here is the description from the website:

At our core, we believe a good liberal arts education must provide students with an extensive base of intellectual content and skills that enables them to explore ideas, evaluate evidence critically, draw reasoned conclusions, and communicate one’s thoughts in a clear, coherent manner.

Yeah, I get that.

However, typically "liberal arts college" refers to a separate institution, whereas "College of Arts and Sciences" refers to essentially a liberal arts college within a university.

People on this thread need to be clear as to what they're actually referring to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A humanities major from a directional state university is going to be outlearned by a STEM major from a similar second tier college. But most STEM majors are from directional state colleges and they don't outearn humanities majors at elite colleges. If your DC is among the brightest 1/2 percent of students and gets into a top tier school, you don't need to worry about what they choose to study and their future career options. They are smart enough to figure out their own path.

I can't even begin to unpack the blatant assumptions and generalizations on this post.

Example: You likely think UIUC is a "directional state college" (even though it's a university). It in fact has excellent STEM programs and a STEM grad from UIUC likely would outearn a humanities major at a so-called "elite" college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The return on investment for a STEM degree is about double that of a LA egree, based on the same data set.

A STEM degree can be a liberal arts degree! You just get it at a school with a liberal arts core curriculum rather than a technical school or large university with specialized departments. I got a chem major at a liberal arts college. It's a liberal arts degree (and has served me well). My husband has a sociology major at a liberal arts college. It's also a liberal arts degree and has served him well.

Large universities can offer liberal arts educations. In fact, most of them do.

The difference is liberal arts colleges specialize in them, usually resulting in fewer graduate programs.

The largest school at UVA by far is the liberal arts college.

Oh my god. You people are so ignorant about this terminology.

A liberal arts college is a college without extensive graduate programs. That's why it's not considered a university.

That's in contrast to an undergrad college that sits within a university.

A college can be an independent institution (a Liberal Arts College) or a component of a university. In the case of UVA, the largest component by enrollment by far is the College of Arts and Sciences, which is focused on liberal arts. Here is the description from the website:

At our core, we believe a good liberal arts education must provide students with an extensive base of intellectual content and skills that enables them to explore ideas, evaluate evidence critically, draw reasoned conclusions, and communicate one’s thoughts in a clear, coherent manner.

Yeah, I get that.

However, typically "liberal arts college" refers to a separate institution, whereas "College of Arts and Sciences" refers to essentially a liberal arts college within a university.

People on this thread need to be clear as to what they're actually referring to.

You were looking for something to criticize. I made it clear that it CLAS is a component of UVA, which is the same as what you say when you say "essentially a liberal arts college within a university."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The return on investment for a STEM degree is about double that of a LA egree, based on the same data set.

A STEM degree can be a liberal arts degree! You just get it at a school with a liberal arts core curriculum rather than a technical school or large university with specialized departments. I got a chem major at a liberal arts college. It's a liberal arts degree (and has served me well). My husband has a sociology major at a liberal arts college. It's also a liberal arts degree and has served him well.

Large universities can offer liberal arts educations. In fact, most of them do.

The difference is liberal arts colleges specialize in them, usually resulting in fewer graduate programs.

The largest school at UVA by far is the liberal arts college.

Oh my god. You people are so ignorant about this terminology.

A liberal arts college is a college without extensive graduate programs. That's why it's not considered a university.

That's in contrast to an undergrad college that sits within a university.

A college can be an independent institution (a Liberal Arts College) or a component of a university. In the case of UVA, the largest component by enrollment by far is the College of Arts and Sciences, which is focused on liberal arts. Here is the description from the website:

At our core, we believe a good liberal arts education must provide students with an extensive base of intellectual content and skills that enables them to explore ideas, evaluate evidence critically, draw reasoned conclusions, and communicate one’s thoughts in a clear, coherent manner.

Yeah, I get that.

However, typically "liberal arts college" refers to a separate institution, whereas "College of Arts and Sciences" refers to essentially a liberal arts college within a university.

People on this thread need to be clear as to what they're actually referring to.

You were looking for something to criticize. I made it clear that it CLAS is a component of UVA, which is the same as what you say when you say "essentially a liberal arts college within a university."

So why did you essentially just repeat what I posted?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I couldn’t agree more. I went to a liberal arts degree & worked in investment banking in ny. There were more colleagues with liberal arts degrees than finance/business majors (for undergrad). I loved having them on my team bc pretty much across the board they were great writers and stepped back and looked at various approaches to everything.

There’s a well documented reason for this, and spoiler alert, it’s not the inherent superiority of a liberal arts education.

And the reason is??

NP. Because the people who end up at those firms are from the rich and well-connected families where they don't actually need to get real degrees and real jobs to survive. Needing to actually support yourself (and your family) in life without inheritances or funded college funds or gifts from grandparents or handshakes from daddy to get you jobs means that you can't just study fluff and know that you'll be fine. The fact that you're apparently clueless about that really just proves the point. Most of us can't get 200k into debt in order to earn a degree that qualifies us to do exactly nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The return on investment for a STEM degree is about double that of a LA egree, based on the same data set.

A STEM degree can be a liberal arts degree! You just get it at a school with a liberal arts core curriculum rather than a technical school or large university with specialized departments. I got a chem major at a liberal arts college. It's a liberal arts degree (and has served me well). My husband has a sociology major at a liberal arts college. It's also a liberal arts degree and has served him well.

Large universities can offer liberal arts educations. In fact, most of them do.

The difference is liberal arts colleges specialize in them, usually resulting in fewer graduate programs.

The largest school at UVA by far is the liberal arts college.

Oh my god. You people are so ignorant about this terminology.

A liberal arts college is a college without extensive graduate programs. That's why it's not considered a university.

That's in contrast to an undergrad college that sits within a university.

A college can be an independent institution (a Liberal Arts College) or a component of a university. In the case of UVA, the largest component by enrollment by far is the College of Arts and Sciences, which is focused on liberal arts. Here is the description from the website:

At our core, we believe a good liberal arts education must provide students with an extensive base of intellectual content and skills that enables them to explore ideas, evaluate evidence critically, draw reasoned conclusions, and communicate one’s thoughts in a clear, coherent manner.

Yeah, I get that.

However, typically "liberal arts college" refers to a separate institution, whereas "College of Arts and Sciences" refers to essentially a liberal arts college within a university.

People on this thread need to be clear as to what they're actually referring to.

You were looking for something to criticize. I made it clear that it CLAS is a component of UVA, which is the same as what you say when you say "essentially a liberal arts college within a university."

So why did you essentially just repeat what I posted?

When you start with "Oh my god. You people are so ignorant about this terminology" and then go on to say the same damn thing, do you expect no one to take offense?

[Anonymous]

The PP was not using the term “liberal arts college” correctly.

Precision of language is important, and has been sorely lacking in this thread.

UVA does not have a liberal arts college; it has a CLAS. There is a key difference between the two.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I couldn’t agree more. I went to a liberal arts degree & worked in investment banking in ny. There were more colleagues with liberal arts degrees than finance/business majors (for undergrad). I loved having them on my team bc pretty much across the board they were great writers and stepped back and looked at various approaches to everything.

There’s a well documented reason for this, and spoiler alert, it’s not the inherent superiority of a liberal arts education.

And the reason is??

NP. Because the people who end up at those firms are from the rich and well-connected families where they don't actually need to get real degrees and real jobs to survive. Needing to actually support yourself (and your family) in life without inheritances or funded college funds or gifts from grandparents or handshakes from daddy to get you jobs means that you can't just study fluff and know that you'll be fine. The fact that you're apparently clueless about that really just proves the point. Most of us can't get 200k into debt in order to earn a degree that qualifies us to do exactly nothing.

Define “liberal arts degree” please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So many are angsty about the job prospects for liberal arts grads. The spin of this article tracks with my experience - that liberal arts grads tend to be critical thinkers and also better writers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/liberal-arts-education-waste-of-money-or-practical-investment-studys-conclusions-might-surprise-you/2020/01/13/5a197b14-3649-11ea-bb7b-265f4554af6d_story.html

Yes, and many are unemployed or underemployed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I couldn’t agree more. I went to a liberal arts degree & worked in investment banking in ny. There were more colleagues with liberal arts degrees than finance/business majors (for undergrad). I loved having them on my team bc pretty much across the board they were great writers and stepped back and looked at various approaches to everything.

There’s a well documented reason for this, and spoiler alert, it’s not the inherent superiority of a liberal arts education.

And the reason is??

NP. Because the people who end up at those firms are from the rich and well-connected families where they don't actually need to get real degrees and real jobs to survive. Needing to actually support yourself (and your family) in life without inheritances or funded college funds or gifts from grandparents or handshakes from daddy to get you jobs means that you can't just study fluff and know that you'll be fine. The fact that you're apparently clueless about that really just proves the point. Most of us can't get 200k into debt in order to earn a degree that qualifies us to do exactly nothing.

This post, with all its generalizations, stereotypes, incorrect assumptions, demonstrated lack of facts, bitterness, and total lack of citations, wins the prize for “the stupidest thing I will read all morning”.

Congrats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I couldn’t agree more. I went to a liberal arts degree & worked in investment banking in ny. There were more colleagues with liberal arts degrees than finance/business majors (for undergrad). I loved having them on my team bc pretty much across the board they were great writers and stepped back and looked at various approaches to everything.

There’s a well documented reason for this, and spoiler alert, it’s not the inherent superiority of a liberal arts education.

And the reason is??

NP. Because the people who end up at those firms are from the rich and well-connected families where they don't actually need to get real degrees and real jobs to survive. Needing to actually support yourself (and your family) in life without inheritances or funded college funds or gifts from grandparents or handshakes from daddy to get you jobs means that you can't just study fluff and know that you'll be fine. The fact that you're apparently clueless about that really just proves the point. Most of us can't get 200k into debt in order to earn a degree that qualifies us to do exactly nothing.

This post, with all its generalizations, stereotypes, incorrect assumptions, demonstrated lack of facts, bitterness, and total lack of citations, wins the prize for “the stupidest thing I will read all morning”.

Congrats.

I agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many are angsty about the job prospects for liberal arts grads. The spin of this article tracks with my experience - that liberal arts grads tend to be critical thinkers and also better writers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/liberal-arts-education-waste-of-money-or-practical-investment-studys-conclusions-might-surprise-you/2020/01/13/5a197b14-3649-11ea-bb7b-265f4554af6d_story.html

Yes, and many are unemployed or underemployed.

The ones posting on here making 200k trying to convince us that they are the norm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many are angsty about the job prospects for liberal arts grads. The spin of this article tracks with my experience - that liberal arts grads tend to be critical thinkers and also better writers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/liberal-arts-education-waste-of-money-or-practical-investment-studys-conclusions-might-surprise-you/2020/01/13/5a197b14-3649-11ea-bb7b-265f4554af6d_story.html

Yes, and many are unemployed or underemployed.

The ones posting on here making 200k trying to convince us that they are the norm

Explain to me what you think a liberal arts degree is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many are angsty about the job prospects for liberal arts grads. The spin of this article tracks with my experience - that liberal arts grads tend to be critical thinkers and also better writers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/liberal-arts-education-waste-of-money-or-practical-investment-studys-conclusions-might-surprise-you/2020/01/13/5a197b14-3649-11ea-bb7b-265f4554af6d_story.html

Yes, and many are unemployed or underemployed.

The ones posting on here making 200k trying to convince us that they are the norm

Explain to me what you think a liberal arts degree is.

+1. And where exactly is 200k the “norm” anyway?

[Anonymous]

I don't understand why you all argue over things you could just look up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_arts_education

Liberal arts is about the subject matter. It is not about the structure of the college or university. There are small colleges that are not liberal arts schools (e.g. Colorado School of Mines) because the subject matter they teach is technical professional training.