Not Good Enough for Swim Teams

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What to do if 12 yo child did not make ASA Jr team but wants to swim 4 times a week? Wants to be on a team? Has the capacity and genetics (both bio parents were division one athletes) to excel but needs an opportunity to be taught and practice. He has some form issues that were not addressed in once a week stroke and turn clinics. He’s currently taking private lessons. He’s signed up to tryout for RMSC in August but that’s just as doubtful. I regret not accepting offered spots on teams when he was little but can’t do anything about that now. Do you have suggestions based on experience w your child?

OP, is this about your kid wanting to become a better swimmer or you wanting to raise an athlete?

I think if her 12 yo didn’t want to swim, he wouldn’t be attending tryouts. OP didn’t mean to say she was pushing him or something

OP. Since you asked, my son has told me he wants to swim —I am attempting to help him without breaking his desire (because he’s not making it with tryouts.) If I were pushing him I’d having him play football or basketball. I am following his lead.

Is he swimming daily now? Because honestly that is going to help him make the most progress fast. So I am going to suggest a different approach than maybe the path you're on. Keep working on finding a team, because it helps and going to meets definitely is invigorating, but he needs to be swimming now all the time to improve. He should be swimming daily at your local pool. He should be doing a series of timed sets on areas of focus. Does your pool have its own swim team or does your local public have a swim team with a coach? Ask that coach (pay him/her) to help you put together a 5-day series of timed sets that he can rotate through.

He will need to be self-motivating. I look at it like when one of my kids is out in the driveway shooting hoops for an hour after he gets home from practice or another kid is throwing lax balls against the side of the garage and he doesn't stop until he's done 200.

Your son will need to push himself. This won't be coasting along swimming easily. He will need to keep decreasing the times for his reps so that he is getting to the end of a set and he feels like he can't go another stroke. He will need to be taking his heart rate to hit his target so that he knows he is going as hard as he can. He will rest to get the HR back to normal and then he starts the next set. Use your D1 skillset to help him develop the internal motivation and rigor to go it alone until he makes a team.

FWIW, I didn't begin swimming until I was around 11. It was part of my physical rehab after an accident. I literally had not been a swimmer, just a splasher, before the accident so I had to learn to float before I could even start the rehab part! However, by the time I was in high school I was nationally ranked and I could have tried out to make the Olympic team if that had been my choice. My focus was on the outcome of swimming for my body and what it meant for my physical recovery so my focus was a little different than your son's. I didn't even know about sets and once I was ably swimming my PT wasn't even around so I was mostly swimming laps and telling myself 'the next one I want to do in x seconds.' So it is true to say that for the most part I did it alone until I was good enough that I made the various high school and competitive teams. Frankly, I don't know who was more surprised by all of that, me or my parents or the team of physicians monitoring my progress!

IMO swimming is a very forgiving sport so there is no time like the present to get in there and go.

Thank you for this thoughtful reply. What you say make sense. I will do this with him. My child is adopted and his of his bio birth parents were Div 1 athletes when he was born. Sadly neither I nor his dad are athletes!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What to do if 12 yo child did not make ASA Jr team but wants to swim 4 times a week? Wants to be on a team? Has the capacity and genetics (both bio parents were division one athletes) to excel but needs an opportunity to be taught and practice. He has some form issues that were not addressed in once a week stroke and turn clinics. He’s currently taking private lessons. He’s signed up to tryout for RMSC in August but that’s just as doubtful. I regret not accepting offered spots on teams when he was little but can’t do anything about that now. Do you have suggestions based on experience w your child?

OP, is this about your kid wanting to become a better swimmer or you wanting to raise an athlete?

I think if her 12 yo didn’t want to swim, he wouldn’t be attending tryouts. OP didn’t mean to say she was pushing him or something

OP. Since you asked, my son has told me he wants to swim —I am attempting to help him without breaking his desire (because he’s not making it with tryouts.) If I were pushing him I’d having him play football or basketball. I am following his lead.

Is he swimming daily now? Because honestly that is going to help him make the most progress fast. So I am going to suggest a different approach than maybe the path you're on. Keep working on finding a team, because it helps and going to meets definitely is invigorating, but he needs to be swimming now all the time to improve. He should be swimming daily at your local pool. He should be doing a series of timed sets on areas of focus. Does your pool have its own swim team or does your local public have a swim team with a coach? Ask that coach (pay him/her) to help you put together a 5-day series of timed sets that he can rotate through.

He will need to be self-motivating. I look at it like when one of my kids is out in the driveway shooting hoops for an hour after he gets home from practice or another kid is throwing lax balls against the side of the garage and he doesn't stop until he's done 200.

Your son will need to push himself. This won't be coasting along swimming easily. He will need to keep decreasing the times for his reps so that he is getting to the end of a set and he feels like he can't go another stroke. He will need to be taking his heart rate to hit his target so that he knows he is going as hard as he can. He will rest to get the HR back to normal and then he starts the next set. Use your D1 skillset to help him develop the internal motivation and rigor to go it alone until he makes a team.

FWIW, I didn't begin swimming until I was around 11. It was part of my physical rehab after an accident. I literally had not been a swimmer, just a splasher, before the accident so I had to learn to float before I could even start the rehab part! However, by the time I was in high school I was nationally ranked and I could have tried out to make the Olympic team if that had been my choice. My focus was on the outcome of swimming for my body and what it meant for my physical recovery so my focus was a little different than your son's. I didn't even know about sets and once I was ably swimming my PT wasn't even around so I was mostly swimming laps and telling myself 'the next one I want to do in x seconds.' So it is true to say that for the most part I did it alone until I was good enough that I made the various high school and competitive teams. Frankly, I don't know who was more surprised by all of that, me or my parents or the team of physicians monitoring my progress!

IMO swimming is a very forgiving sport so there is no time like the present to get in there and go.

Thank you for this thoughtful reply. What you say make sense. I will do this with him. My child is adopted and his of his bio birth parents were Div 1 athletes when he was born. Sadly neither I nor his dad are athletes!

*both of his

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you really want your son to swim and be successful you need to support him with driving at least for a year. I know families who drove for 2-3 years to more remote clubs just for their kids get better and be offered convenient times closer to home. US champions drive to specific coaches over 40 min because those coaches can make them do superior times, and week nights is not a bad idea for pre-teens. Training late pm is more easier on teens than 5am practices offered by most local teams, certainly gives more time for homework and friends after school. You seem like you don’t want to sacrifice your own convenience for your son

I’m asking for recommendations. Do you have some? It’s hard to say yes with vague, non specific recommendations.

Can you drive to McLean and Gaithersburg? If yes shoot me a message at [e-mail]. I can’t name the coaches or programs here

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, when you say he 'has some form issues" are you saying is not legal in all four strokes?

Because if he is at a least legal, there are several options.

Thanks. He is legal (I believe) in all but butterfly. He struggles w butterfly. Looks horrible. The dolphin movement is a challenge. He’s not flexible in that way.

Rmsc is not IM program and they might take him if he struggles with fly. Fly may only come at later age and some specialty swimmers don’t swim fly. Kevin Cordes never competed in fly, his career best was 1.08 SCY

[Anonymous]

Highly recommend Tollefsen for stroke and endurance. It’s expensive but gives excellent instruction.

[Anonymous]

(Adding that Tollefson allows for 1 or 2 stroke classes a week, I believe, and up to 4 training and endurance sessions. So you can certainly put together a schedule that provides plenty of pool time.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

.

Thank you for this thoughtful reply. What you say make sense. I will do this with him. My child is adopted and his of his bio birth parents were Div 1 athletes when he was born. Sadly neither I nor his dad are athletes!

Ah, understood! We also are adoptive parents. There are many ways that we are very similar to our kids but there are a couple where we're not … and sports is it for me. I can't dribble a basketball to save my life but one of our kids plays D1. I most definitely CAN, however, cite the rules for all levels of basketball from 4-5 through college, and I can talk strategy/tactics with you all day long if you have a mind to be bored to death by a basketball mom. It is a life!

It also may help you to know that my favorite swim coach couldn't swim a lick. It was a pleasure working with him because of his enthusiasm and intense desire to support me no matter what. He would read articles describing techniques and then discuss them with me but he was a firm believe in letting strokes develop in swimmers given their natural body predispositions (or something like that). So I adapted what made me go faster, and dropped what didn't. I guess what I'm trying to say is that your athletic ability (or not) should not be an impediment to your enthusiasm to support your son.

I think you're getting a lot of great advice here. Take up the offers some folks are giving you. Start subscribing to some of the swim magazines. Get ready to drive a lot and to sit at the side of the pool. I love what you're doing to try to help your son! Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you really want your son to swim and be successful you need to support him with driving at least for a year. I know families who drove for 2-3 years to more remote clubs just for their kids get better and be offered convenient times closer to home. US champions drive to specific coaches over 40 min because those coaches can make them do superior times, and week nights is not a bad idea for pre-teens. Training late pm is more easier on teens than 5am practices offered by most local teams, certainly gives more time for homework and friends after school. You seem like you don’t want to sacrifice your own convenience for your son

I’m asking for recommendations. Do you have some? It’s hard to say yes with vague, non specific recommendations.

I can’t privide specific info here email to [e-mail]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:(Adding that Tollefson allows for 1 or 2 stroke classes a week, I believe, and up to 4 training and endurance sessions. So you can certainly put together a schedule that provides plenty of pool time.)

Tollefson stroke classes are only 30’min long not much practice to improve. Swimming is repetitive sport one has to practice a lot to get somewhere

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, when you say he 'has some form issues" are you saying is not legal in all four strokes?

Because if he is at a least legal, there are several options.

Thanks. He is legal (I believe) in all but butterfly. He struggles w butterfly. Looks horrible. The dolphin movement is a challenge. He’s not flexible in that way.

OK then, based on where you live, you should look up The Capitol Sea Devils Age Group 3 and Bronze development groups, both expect him to be legal in three strokes, and both have 12 year olds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:(Adding that Tollefson allows for 1 or 2 stroke classes a week, I believe, and up to 4 training and endurance sessions. So you can certainly put together a schedule that provides plenty of pool time.)

Tollefson stroke classes are only 30’min long not much practice to improve. Swimming is repetitive sport one has to practice a lot to get somewhere

Agreed, but we found our kids improved a lot with that 30 min plus their excellent hour-long training and endurance. Have you had less success with them? Or are you making assumptions about how their program works?

[Anonymous]

I know some families that liked Tollefson and some that thought it was a huge waste of money. It probably depends on the coach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, when you say he 'has some form issues" are you saying is not legal in all four strokes?

Because if he is at a least legal, there are several options.

Thanks. He is legal (I believe) in all but butterfly. He struggles w butterfly. Looks horrible. The dolphin movement is a challenge. He’s not flexible in that way.

Rmsc is not IM program and they might take him if he struggles with fly. Fly may only come at later age and some specialty swimmers don’t swim fly. Kevin Cordes never competed in fly, his career best was 1.08 SCY

They will take a mini who cannot do fly. Most of the kids struggle with it. A junior, only if they are strong in all other areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know some families that liked Tollefson and some that thought it was a huge waste of money. It probably depends on the coach.

All of the groups are either really good or really bad depending on the coach. I used to wonder what was the issue posted here with RMSC till we got that coach I am sure everyone is referring to. That coach is a huge weak link.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you really want your son to swim and be successful you need to support him with driving at least for a year. I know families who drove for 2-3 years to more remote clubs just for their kids get better and be offered convenient times closer to home. US champions drive to specific coaches over 40 min because those coaches can make them do superior times, and week nights is not a bad idea for pre-teens. Training late pm is more easier on teens than 5am practices offered by most local teams, certainly gives more time for homework and friends after school. You seem like you don’t want to sacrifice your own convenience for your son

I’m asking for recommendations. Do you have some? It’s hard to say yes with vague, non specific recommendations.

Can you drive to McLean and Gaithersburg? If yes shoot me a message at [e-mail]. I can’t name the coaches or programs here

You don't need to do all this. You have to wonder why they cannot share here.