Heavy Christmas emphasis at non-religious pre-school, WWYD?

[Anonymous]

PP sounds like she is the one reading into other people's post. OP never said the school told her they don't celebrate Christmas. All she said is that it is a non-religious pre-school (I took this to mean that it just isn't affiliated with a church). I doubt they lied to her and said they don't ever mention Christmas.

And PP - you know what - for many Americans, Christmas actually is NOT about Jesus Christ. Yes, I know exactly where the holiday is derived from, but that doesn't mean it hasn't morphed into a less religious (and more cultural) tradition for many people. You seem to be implying that only people who are celebrating the religious holiday of Christmas have any right to it and that the rest of us should instead by calling it a winter festival or something.

I'm sorry, but time to wake up and smell the egg nog, to many of us, Christmas is just as much about Christmas trees, decorating with ornaments, reindeer and Santa then it about the birth of Jesus. Sorry - but that is just how it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
NOT AT ALL!!!! You have not captured the logic of my post. You were being snide about Christ being in all of us all the time so I wasn't about to engage with you. My post said Christmas is not (or at least shouldn't be) about Rudolph. Sure, I love Rudolph and Santa and all of the other traditions, but they are not what Christmas is about. I also said that I am perfectly fine with people not acknowledging Christ and celebrating his birthday. OP has every right not to want to do that and has options. Confront the teachers (if in fact they advertizes that their curriculum is non-religious) or take her child to a different school. I have no problem with that whatsoever even though I celebrate Christmas. What I do have a problem with is people saying that Christmas is purely cultural and reducing it down to Rudolph and Santa. In my family we actually focus on the religious part of Christmas. Do we not think Hanukah is a religious Jewish holiday any longer? Is Eid not a RELIGIOUS holiday any longer?
Secondly, my post was not for OP but for the Muslim family. I think that OP realizes that Christmas is a religious holiday and doesn't want her child exposed at such a young age. Again, no problem there. I didn't suggest that she take her child out in any of my posts so I have no idea where you're getting that. If you have a problem with Christianity or religion that's one thing. But it doesn't change the fact that Dec 25 is celebrated as a birth date of Jesus.

Nobody ever said that. People have said they like to celebrate Christmas differently from you, including a purely secular celebration of it. There's a difference.

Yeah the difference is I know what Christmas is and you don't.

"What Christmas is" differs for everyone, and every family. Just because others don't share your vision doesn't make them wrong. Maybe you think Christmas should be only about celebrating the birth of Christ - but that doesn't make it so. As an aside, I think people who try to force religion down others' throats (cough, ahem, cough) should be forced to move to Alaska and re-elect Sarah Palin as their governor. Sadly, that isn't going to happen. I've dealt with the disappointment - hope you can do the same.

Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Christ. Anything else attached to this religious holiday is a tradition or clever marketing. There is nothing wrong with appreciating some of the traditions, music, decor associated with Christmas, but it really doesn't change the fact that it is about the birth of Jesus. Jesus was born way before Santa Claus or Christmas trees were even ideas in someone's head. If you celebrate Christmas that you are celebrating the birth of Christ.

As for the OPs dilemma. If the school made claims about holidays and they are not standing behind them, the OP should bring it to their attention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Christ. Anything else attached to this religious holiday is a tradition or clever marketing. There is nothing wrong with appreciating some of the traditions, music, decor associated with Christmas, but it really doesn't change the fact that it is about the birth of Jesus. Jesus was born way before Santa Claus or Christmas trees were even ideas in someone's head. If you celebrate Christmas that you are celebrating the birth of Christ.
As for the OPs dilemma. If the school made claims about holidays and they are not standing behind them, the OP should bring it to their attention.

If you are religious and Christian, then yes, you are. If not, you might just be celebrating a fun time of year.

[Anonymous]

Can you ask the staff celebrate different religious traditions too, so everyone is covered? That way you can talk about different traditions with different families. If you celebrate something in December you can talk about your traditions.

[Anonymous]

I am not Chirstian and therefore do not celebrate Christmas. I think when people say that they celebrate it but see it as cultural/secular, they mean that they are Christian by birth or culture but they aren't religious. Since I actually belong to another religion, I could never view it as secular or cultural. And it's not my culture, even though it is part of the predominant religion in the U.S. and this is my country. I have always viewed Christmas as a religious holiday, though I recognize that some people choose to celebrate it even though they aren't religious at other times of the year.

[Anonymous]

I am a militant atheist of Jewish origins, but I can't understand for the life of me why anyone would be offended by the type of celebrations OP described.

I loved all the Christmas traditions and music growing up, and I still do - including much with a Christ-heavy component. I want my children to enjoy this too. It is part of the cultural and religious heritage of the country they are growing up in. I think it is a real shame if we move towards a bland de-Jesused Holiday celebration.

I really don't think there is any danger of my children being "infected" and believing any of the religious nonsense. And even if they did, so what? They will eventually have to make up there own minds about this. If they are bright, I am sure they will see religion for what it is. If they are stupid, then it doesn't really matter what they believe, since religion will be a symptom rather than a diagnosis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP sounds like she is the one reading into other people's post. OP never said the school told her they don't celebrate Christmas. All she said is that it is a non-religious pre-school (I took this to mean that it just isn't affiliated with a church). I doubt they lied to her and said they don't ever mention Christmas.

And PP - you know what - for many Americans, Christmas actually is NOT about Jesus Christ. Yes, I know exactly where the holiday is derived from, but that doesn't mean it hasn't morphed into a less religious (and more cultural) tradition for many people. You seem to be implying that only people who are celebrating the religious holiday of Christmas have any right to it and that the rest of us should instead by calling it a winter festival or something.

I'm sorry, but time to wake up and smell the egg nog, to many of us, Christmas is just as much about Christmas trees, decorating with ornaments, reindeer and Santa then it about the birth of Jesus. Sorry - but that is just how it is.

That's fine. Let's not start a religious war. Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Christ-you can't change that, but go ahead and enjoy all the traditions that surround it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

That's fine. Let's not start a religious war. Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Christ-you can't change that, but go ahead and enjoy all the traditions that surround it.

And Saturday is a celebration of the god Saturn. You can't change that.

But that doesn't mean I sacrifice an ox to him every weekend.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm in the get over camp. It doesn't sound like the preschool is inundating the students with lectures on Jesus, just talking about some aspects of Christmas that kids generally enjoy (e.g., the Christmas tree). Not sure why anybody would really be bothered by that...

I also think OP is going to be fighting this fight a LOT unless she just chills out about it. I would think it is better to not make a huge deal and single your kid out. She may not notice now, but when OP starts doing it in elementary school, OP's kid is going to feel embarrassed which is exactly the wrong message...

The OP does not need to chill out about it. If her child goes to public school, she is protected by the constitution. Public schools are able hold holiday programs which include the singing of explicitly religious songs and the use of religious themes only if it is a part of an educational curriculum which is designed to explain to students the religious and cultural heritage. There is still the separation of church and state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm in the get over camp. It doesn't sound like the preschool is inundating the students with lectures on Jesus, just talking about some aspects of Christmas that kids generally enjoy (e.g., the Christmas tree). Not sure why anybody would really be bothered by that...

I also think OP is going to be fighting this fight a LOT unless she just chills out about it. I would think it is better to not make a huge deal and single your kid out. She may not notice now, but when OP starts doing it in elementary school, OP's kid is going to feel embarrassed which is exactly the wrong message...

The OP does not need to chill out about it. If her child goes to public school, she is protected by the constitution. Public schools are able hold holiday programs which include the singing of explicitly religious songs and the use of religious themes only if it is a part of an educational curriculum which is designed to explain to students the religious and cultural heritage. There is still the separation of church and state.

I think that the public schools can sort of celebrate Christmas in the sense that the kids can do Christmas themed art projects, etc. but I think that they usually also learn about non-Christian holidays too.

I don't think OP is being unreasonable, and there is no reason for her to get over it when she can change schools (presumably). We all have different tolerance levels for what our kids are exposed to whether it is religions we aren't a part of or anything else (non-organic food, violent tv shows, etc.). There are kids at my child's religious preschool who belong to a different religion. They are perfectlly comfortable there, though I wouldn't be if I were in their shoes.

She is uncomfortable. It seems that the school is just a bad fit for her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Christ. Anything else attached to this religious holiday is a tradition or clever marketing. There is nothing wrong with appreciating some of the traditions, music, decor associated with Christmas, but it really doesn't change the fact that it is about the birth of Jesus. Jesus was born way before Santa Claus or Christmas trees were even ideas in someone's head. If you celebrate Christmas that you are celebrating the birth of Christ.
As for the OPs dilemma. If the school made claims about holidays and they are not standing behind them, the OP should bring it to their attention.

If you are religious and Christian, then yes, you are. If not, you might just be celebrating a fun time of year.

"Ahem - really? You really want to go down that path? Christmas is a bastardization of the Pagan Winter Solstice, right down to the date - the lights, and many of the traditions pre-date Christianity. That we now call it Christmas because millions of Christians celebrate it as such does not mean that people who do not believe that Jesus was the lord and savior cannot enjoy the festivities as much as the fervent evangelical. The people who want to "Keep the Christ in Christmas" are just as bogus as the people who don't want Christmas celebrated anywhere but a Christian hurch. And you're both relatively Scroogish. It's fun, and happy, and bright, and keeps the winter darkness and dreariness away for a few weeks, which I am sure that we could all benefit from.

[Anonymous]

I love that this is people's biggest problems. It is a good life, this American life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Christ. Anything else attached to this religious holiday is a tradition or clever marketing. There is nothing wrong with appreciating some of the traditions, music, decor associated with Christmas, but it really doesn't change the fact that it is about the birth of Jesus. Jesus was born way before Santa Claus or Christmas trees were even ideas in someone's head. If you celebrate Christmas that you are celebrating the birth of Christ.
As for the OPs dilemma. If the school made claims about holidays and they are not standing behind them, the OP should bring it to their attention.

If you are religious and Christian, then yes, you are. If not, you might just be celebrating a fun time of year.

"Ahem - really? You really want to go down that path? Christmas is a bastardization of the Pagan Winter Solstice, right down to the date - the lights, and many of the traditions pre-date Christianity. That we now call it Christmas because millions of Christians celebrate it as such does not mean that people who do not believe that Jesus was the lord and savior cannot enjoy the festivities as much as the fervent evangelical. The people who want to "Keep the Christ in Christmas" are just as bogus as the people who don't want Christmas celebrated anywhere but a Christian hurch. And you're both relatively Scroogish. It's fun, and happy, and bright, and keeps the winter darkness and dreariness away for a few weeks, which I am sure that we could all benefit from.

What are you droning on about? It's different things to different people. Simple as that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Christ. Anything else attached to this religious holiday is a tradition or clever marketing. There is nothing wrong with appreciating some of the traditions, music, decor associated with Christmas, but it really doesn't change the fact that it is about the birth of Jesus. Jesus was born way before Santa Claus or Christmas trees were even ideas in someone's head. If you celebrate Christmas that you are celebrating the birth of Christ.
As for the OPs dilemma. If the school made claims about holidays and they are not standing behind them, the OP should bring it to their attention.

If you are religious and Christian, then yes, you are. If not, you might just be celebrating a fun time of year.

"Ahem - really? You really want to go down that path? Christmas is a bastardization of the Pagan Winter Solstice, right down to the date - the lights, and many of the traditions pre-date Christianity. That we now call it Christmas because millions of Christians celebrate it as such does not mean that people who do not believe that Jesus was the lord and savior cannot enjoy the festivities as much as the fervent evangelical. The people who want to "Keep the Christ in Christmas" are just as bogus as the people who don't want Christmas celebrated anywhere but a Christian hurch. And you're both relatively Scroogish. It's fun, and happy, and bright, and keeps the winter darkness and dreariness away for a few weeks, which I am sure that we could all benefit from.

What are you droning on about? It's different things to different people. Simple as that.

I agree- it is different things to different people. OP doesn't want her child to celebrate it. School wants to celebrate it. Hopefully she can find a new school that doesn't celebrate it.

[Anonymous]

op, which faith do you do (if any)?