Huge turnover at Churchill

[Anonymous]

My children used Naviance to narrow down the choices of schools based on location, size, and majors. It made recommendations at times of schools my children and I didn't know about but worth consideration. We then decided which schools to visit. At then end, my children prioritized their applications based on where they wanted to go.

I don't know what a paid consultant could have done but whatever floats your boat. My children were happy with their final choices. They found the universities that were the best fit for them.

[Anonymous]

A paid consultant can help you with some of the strategizing. There are some schools that disproportionately take kids who apply early decision. There are schools that don’t like certain high schools. There are schools that won’t take kids who are overqualified because they know from past yield numbers that these kids are unlikely to matriculate. There are schools that are by-the-numbers, and schools that really have the bandwidth and interest in considering a student as a whole. Then there’s second early—in-the-know kids might choose to have a second-early decision choice if their first choice rejects them. Some kids need to get creative about scholarships to make early decision a worthwhile gamble. These are all just examples, but not everyone is savvy. I am a school counselor and can give this type of advice, but not because of any specialized training or grad school course or PD in MCPS. I know my colleagues wouldn’t be able to do the same, though they certainly have strengths in other areas that I lack. This isn’t meant to be a boast—I just took a personal interest in the topic, maybe because I find it a fun challenge to figure out the system—to the extent possible, it’s pretty broken. Anyway, the college and career counselor can guide groups at a time but there’s just one person and no way they can give individualized help to 350-500 graduating high school seniors.

[Anonymous]

A good counselor also knows your kid, how they learn and knows a lot about the schools, the culture and the kind of kids that go there. They can be very helpful in finding a school that is the correct fit for your child. It is a large expense and defining part of your child's life. It pays to do what you can to get it right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A paid consultant can help you with some of the strategizing. There are some schools that disproportionately take kids who apply early decision. There are schools that don’t like certain high schools. There are schools that won’t take kids who are overqualified because they know from past yield numbers that these kids are unlikely to matriculate. There are schools that are by-the-numbers, and schools that really have the bandwidth and interest in considering a student as a whole. Then there’s second early—in-the-know kids might choose to have a second-early decision choice if their first choice rejects them. Some kids need to get creative about scholarships to make early decision a worthwhile gamble. These are all just examples, but not everyone is savvy. I am a school counselor and can give this type of advice, but not because of any specialized training or grad school course or PD in MCPS. I know my colleagues wouldn’t be able to do the same, though they certainly have strengths in other areas that I lack. This isn’t meant to be a boast—I just took a personal interest in the topic, maybe because I find it a fun challenge to figure out the system—to the extent possible, it’s pretty broken. Anyway, the college and career counselor can guide groups at a time but there’s just one person and no way they can give individualized help to 350-500 graduating high school seniors.

How do you feel about the required counselor letter for seniors? It seems like such a joke. My DD (rising senior) has spent 5 minutes total with her counselor as he signed her class schedule 3 times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A paid consultant can help you with some of the strategizing. There are some schools that disproportionately take kids who apply early decision. There are schools that don’t like certain high schools. There are schools that won’t take kids who are overqualified because they know from past yield numbers that these kids are unlikely to matriculate. There are schools that are by-the-numbers, and schools that really have the bandwidth and interest in considering a student as a whole. Then there’s second early—in-the-know kids might choose to have a second-early decision choice if their first choice rejects them. Some kids need to get creative about scholarships to make early decision a worthwhile gamble. These are all just examples, but not everyone is savvy. I am a school counselor and can give this type of advice, but not because of any specialized training or grad school course or PD in MCPS. I know my colleagues wouldn’t be able to do the same, though they certainly have strengths in other areas that I lack. This isn’t meant to be a boast—I just took a personal interest in the topic, maybe because I find it a fun challenge to figure out the system—to the extent possible, it’s pretty broken. Anyway, the college and career counselor can guide groups at a time but there’s just one person and no way they can give individualized help to 350-500 graduating high school seniors.

How do you feel about the required counselor letter for seniors? It seems like such a joke. My DD (rising senior) has spent 5 minutes total with her counselor as he signed her class schedule 3 times.

Yes, that seems useless. Who requires it, MCPS or colleges?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s an issue at every school in MCPS. MCPS is really difficult to work for.

I’d say new teachers last about 5 years or so and then have to move on.

MCPS expects too much and doesn’t support teachers well. So they try to move on in the hopes that it will improve.

Could you imaging working for MCPS? With its abysmal leadership and horrible policies?

As an an MCPS teacher, I can say this is hyperbole. Is working for MCPS tough? Yes, it can be depending on the situation. Leaving a position after 5 years in a school is quite normal. It looks like most of the staff leaving either had a promotion or want to work closer to home for various reasons.

I think parents have to understand that working in a school can be very similar to working in the private sector. You can get people that don't get along, new/bad managers, promotions, pregnancies, home purchases, etc. all leading to changing assignments. In my experience it is very rare for teachers to live in the school zone where they teach, so teachers may not have loyalty to the community, and it should not be expected. Most staff don't stay at the same school until retirement. I can think of only a few teachers who are "lifers" at a one school most of their career.

I disagree. You don't leave a decent paying position after 5 years if you're happy and have good leadership. Not in the private sector and not in the public sector.

I think people who say this don’t understand how teaching positions work in MCPS. I was at a school where advancement in my department was not possible because of the age of the RT and the fact he had no desire to become an admin. He had 15 more years minimum before he could retire and lived 10 min from the school. There was no incentive for him to leave his position, so none of us could move up if we stayed. So one by one, we left. It had nothing to do with the leadership being poor and the pay isn’t determined by the school site. So leaving a non-ILT position at Churchill for an ILT position at Einstein makes career sense even if commuting is not a factor.

But isn’t that a problem in and of itself? It would be beneficial to the kids to have more experienced teachers (teachers who have experience in the classroom, but also in that particular school).

Still not how it works. I have three times the experience as a classroom teacher as another person who has been at my current school for five years. Most parents would rather have the 15 year veteran than the five year one. We’re the same age so middle-aged-stuck-in-her-ways versus young-and-energetic is not a factor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A paid consultant can help you with some of the strategizing. There are some schools that disproportionately take kids who apply early decision. There are schools that don’t like certain high schools. There are schools that won’t take kids who are overqualified because they know from past yield numbers that these kids are unlikely to matriculate. There are schools that are by-the-numbers, and schools that really have the bandwidth and interest in considering a student as a whole. Then there’s second early—in-the-know kids might choose to have a second-early decision choice if their first choice rejects them. Some kids need to get creative about scholarships to make early decision a worthwhile gamble. These are all just examples, but not everyone is savvy. I am a school counselor and can give this type of advice, but not because of any specialized training or grad school course or PD in MCPS. I know my colleagues wouldn’t be able to do the same, though they certainly have strengths in other areas that I lack. This isn’t meant to be a boast—I just took a personal interest in the topic, maybe because I find it a fun challenge to figure out the system—to the extent possible, it’s pretty broken. Anyway, the college and career counselor can guide groups at a time but there’s just one person and no way they can give individualized help to 350-500 graduating high school seniors.

How do you feel about the required counselor letter for seniors? It seems like such a joke. My DD (rising senior) has spent 5 minutes total with her counselor as he signed her class schedule 3 times.

Yes, that seems useless. Who requires it, MCPS or colleges?

Colleges...every single one. Students and their parents have to provide the information since the counselors typically have nothing more than the transcript.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A paid consultant can help you with some of the strategizing. There are some schools that disproportionately take kids who apply early decision. There are schools that don’t like certain high schools. There are schools that won’t take kids who are overqualified because they know from past yield numbers that these kids are unlikely to matriculate. There are schools that are by-the-numbers, and schools that really have the bandwidth and interest in considering a student as a whole. Then there’s second early—in-the-know kids might choose to have a second-early decision choice if their first choice rejects them. Some kids need to get creative about scholarships to make early decision a worthwhile gamble. These are all just examples, but not everyone is savvy. I am a school counselor and can give this type of advice, but not because of any specialized training or grad school course or PD in MCPS. I know my colleagues wouldn’t be able to do the same, though they certainly have strengths in other areas that I lack. This isn’t meant to be a boast—I just took a personal interest in the topic, maybe because I find it a fun challenge to figure out the system—to the extent possible, it’s pretty broken. Anyway, the college and career counselor can guide groups at a time but there’s just one person and no way they can give individualized help to 350-500 graduating high school seniors.

How do you feel about the required counselor letter for seniors? It seems like such a joke. My DD (rising senior) has spent 5 minutes total with her counselor as he signed her class schedule 3 times.

Yes, that seems useless. Who requires it, MCPS or colleges?

Not useless at all. The colleges require it and I think the staff does a good job trying to write personal information about the kids. They solicit information from both the parents and the kids. Some schools refuse to write them because the counselors don't know the kids and that really hurts them in admissions. This is a good compromise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A paid consultant can help you with some of the strategizing. There are some schools that disproportionately take kids who apply early decision. There are schools that don’t like certain high schools. There are schools that won’t take kids who are overqualified because they know from past yield numbers that these kids are unlikely to matriculate. There are schools that are by-the-numbers, and schools that really have the bandwidth and interest in considering a student as a whole. Then there’s second early—in-the-know kids might choose to have a second-early decision choice if their first choice rejects them. Some kids need to get creative about scholarships to make early decision a worthwhile gamble. These are all just examples, but not everyone is savvy. I am a school counselor and can give this type of advice, but not because of any specialized training or grad school course or PD in MCPS. I know my colleagues wouldn’t be able to do the same, though they certainly have strengths in other areas that I lack. This isn’t meant to be a boast—I just took a personal interest in the topic, maybe because I find it a fun challenge to figure out the system—to the extent possible, it’s pretty broken. Anyway, the college and career counselor can guide groups at a time but there’s just one person and no way they can give individualized help to 350-500 graduating high school seniors.

How do you feel about the required counselor letter for seniors? It seems like such a joke. My DD (rising senior) has spent 5 minutes total with her counselor as he signed her class schedule 3 times.

Yes, that seems useless. Who requires it, MCPS or colleges?

Not useless at all. The colleges require it and I think the staff does a good job trying to write personal information about the kids. They solicit information from both the parents and the kids. Some schools refuse to write them because the counselors don't know the kids and that really hurts them in admissions. This is a good compromise.

How is it not useless to ask a virtual stranger to write a recommendation you have to supply with all the info for. A recommendation from someone who actually knows you is much more useful. At My kids school the teacher (who will right their own letters later) also have to supply the counselors with info to help. I was at an info session at an ivy league school and they talked about the counselor letter. A public school student asked about the situation where they did not know their counselor. The admission staff encouraged them to schedule a series of meetings so they could get to know each other better. He was completely out of touch with reality for many students. Public school counselors do not have time for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A paid consultant can help you with some of the strategizing. There are some schools that disproportionately take kids who apply early decision. There are schools that don’t like certain high schools. There are schools that won’t take kids who are overqualified because they know from past yield numbers that these kids are unlikely to matriculate. There are schools that are by-the-numbers, and schools that really have the bandwidth and interest in considering a student as a whole. Then there’s second early—in-the-know kids might choose to have a second-early decision choice if their first choice rejects them. Some kids need to get creative about scholarships to make early decision a worthwhile gamble. These are all just examples, but not everyone is savvy. I am a school counselor and can give this type of advice, but not because of any specialized training or grad school course or PD in MCPS. I know my colleagues wouldn’t be able to do the same, though they certainly have strengths in other areas that I lack. This isn’t meant to be a boast—I just took a personal interest in the topic, maybe because I find it a fun challenge to figure out the system—to the extent possible, it’s pretty broken. Anyway, the college and career counselor can guide groups at a time but there’s just one person and no way they can give individualized help to 350-500 graduating high school seniors.

How do you feel about the required counselor letter for seniors? It seems like such a joke. My DD (rising senior) has spent 5 minutes total with her counselor as he signed her class schedule 3 times.

Yes, that seems useless. Who requires it, MCPS or colleges?

Not useless at all. The colleges require it and I think the staff does a good job trying to write personal information about the kids. They solicit information from both the parents and the kids. Some schools refuse to write them because the counselors don't know the kids and that really hurts them in admissions. This is a good compromise.

How is it not useless to ask a virtual stranger to write a recommendation you have to supply with all the info for. A recommendation from someone who actually knows you is much more useful. At My kids school the teacher (who will right their own letters later) also have to supply the counselors with info to help. I was at an info session at an ivy league school and they talked about the counselor letter. A public school student asked about the situation where they did not know their counselor. The admission staff encouraged them to schedule a series of meetings so they could get to know each other better. He was completely out of touch with reality for many students. Public school counselors do not have time for that.

That's a college policy, not an MCPS policy. Knowing this was coming, I've been encouraging my daughter to go see her counselor. I think that MCPS makes an effort to provide as personal recommendations as they can given how many kids they have. This is not unique to MCPS. Many public schools are like this. I think the fact the at MCPS they ask for help writing the recommendation is actually a good thing and can give you an opportunity to include the information you want the college to see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A paid consultant can help you with some of the strategizing. There are some schools that disproportionately take kids who apply early decision. There are schools that don’t like certain high schools. There are schools that won’t take kids who are overqualified because they know from past yield numbers that these kids are unlikely to matriculate. There are schools that are by-the-numbers, and schools that really have the bandwidth and interest in considering a student as a whole. Then there’s second early—in-the-know kids might choose to have a second-early decision choice if their first choice rejects them. Some kids need to get creative about scholarships to make early decision a worthwhile gamble. These are all just examples, but not everyone is savvy. I am a school counselor and can give this type of advice, but not because of any specialized training or grad school course or PD in MCPS. I know my colleagues wouldn’t be able to do the same, though they certainly have strengths in other areas that I lack. This isn’t meant to be a boast—I just took a personal interest in the topic, maybe because I find it a fun challenge to figure out the system—to the extent possible, it’s pretty broken. Anyway, the college and career counselor can guide groups at a time but there’s just one person and no way they can give individualized help to 350-500 graduating high school seniors.

How do you feel about the required counselor letter for seniors? It seems like such a joke. My DD (rising senior) has spent 5 minutes total with her counselor as he signed her class schedule 3 times.

Yes, that seems useless. Who requires it, MCPS or colleges?

Not useless at all. The colleges require it and I think the staff does a good job trying to write personal information about the kids. They solicit information from both the parents and the kids. Some schools refuse to write them because the counselors don't know the kids and that really hurts them in admissions. This is a good compromise.

How is it not useless to ask a virtual stranger to write a recommendation you have to supply with all the info for. A recommendation from someone who actually knows you is much more useful. At My kids school the teacher (who will right their own letters later) also have to supply the counselors with info to help. I was at an info session at an ivy league school and they talked about the counselor letter. A public school student asked about the situation where they did not know their counselor. The admission staff encouraged them to schedule a series of meetings so they could get to know each other better. He was completely out of touch with reality for many students. Public school counselors do not have time for that.

That's a college policy, not an MCPS policy. Knowing this was coming, I've been encouraging my daughter to go see her counselor. I think that MCPS makes an effort to provide as personal recommendations as they can given how many kids they have. This is not unique to MCPS. Many public schools are like this. I think the fact the at MCPS they ask for help writing the recommendation is actually a good thing and can give you an opportunity to include the information you want the college to see.

Good luck with that one. My DD went to see her counselor in 11th grade to "get to know her" and was basically told, unless you have a problem, I don't have time to talk with you. Yup, this really happened and I'm sure the heavy case load is a big part of the problem. Agreed that all colleges ask for the counselor recommendations, but it truly is ridiculous for someone to write one for a student they don't know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A paid consultant can help you with some of the strategizing. There are some schools that disproportionately take kids who apply early decision. There are schools that don’t like certain high schools. There are schools that won’t take kids who are overqualified because they know from past yield numbers that these kids are unlikely to matriculate. There are schools that are by-the-numbers, and schools that really have the bandwidth and interest in considering a student as a whole. Then there’s second early—in-the-know kids might choose to have a second-early decision choice if their first choice rejects them. Some kids need to get creative about scholarships to make early decision a worthwhile gamble. These are all just examples, but not everyone is savvy. I am a school counselor and can give this type of advice, but not because of any specialized training or grad school course or PD in MCPS. I know my colleagues wouldn’t be able to do the same, though they certainly have strengths in other areas that I lack. This isn’t meant to be a boast—I just took a personal interest in the topic, maybe because I find it a fun challenge to figure out the system—to the extent possible, it’s pretty broken. Anyway, the college and career counselor can guide groups at a time but there’s just one person and no way they can give individualized help to 350-500 graduating high school seniors.

How do you feel about the required counselor letter for seniors? It seems like such a joke. My DD (rising senior) has spent 5 minutes total with her counselor as he signed her class schedule 3 times.

Yes, that seems useless. Who requires it, MCPS or colleges?

Not useless at all. The colleges require it and I think the staff does a good job trying to write personal information about the kids. They solicit information from both the parents and the kids. Some schools refuse to write them because the counselors don't know the kids and that really hurts them in admissions. This is a good compromise.

How is it not useless to ask a virtual stranger to write a recommendation you have to supply with all the info for. A recommendation from someone who actually knows you is much more useful. At My kids school the teacher (who will right their own letters later) also have to supply the counselors with info to help. I was at an info session at an ivy league school and they talked about the counselor letter. A public school student asked about the situation where they did not know their counselor. The admission staff encouraged them to schedule a series of meetings so they could get to know each other better. He was completely out of touch with reality for many students. Public school counselors do not have time for that.

That's a college policy, not an MCPS policy. Knowing this was coming, I've been encouraging my daughter to go see her counselor. I think that MCPS makes an effort to provide as personal recommendations as they can given how many kids they have. This is not unique to MCPS. Many public schools are like this. I think the fact the at MCPS they ask for help writing the recommendation is actually a good thing and can give you an opportunity to include the information you want the college to see.

I guess it depends on the counselor. My daughter's counselor encouraged the kids to come meet with her so she could get to know them. (She's also one of the ones who just left for a promotion)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A paid consultant can help you with some of the strategizing. There are some schools that disproportionately take kids who apply early decision. There are schools that don’t like certain high schools. There are schools that won’t take kids who are overqualified because they know from past yield numbers that these kids are unlikely to matriculate. There are schools that are by-the-numbers, and schools that really have the bandwidth and interest in considering a student as a whole. Then there’s second early—in-the-know kids might choose to have a second-early decision choice if their first choice rejects them. Some kids need to get creative about scholarships to make early decision a worthwhile gamble. These are all just examples, but not everyone is savvy. I am a school counselor and can give this type of advice, but not because of any specialized training or grad school course or PD in MCPS. I know my colleagues wouldn’t be able to do the same, though they certainly have strengths in other areas that I lack. This isn’t meant to be a boast—I just took a personal interest in the topic, maybe because I find it a fun challenge to figure out the system—to the extent possible, it’s pretty broken. Anyway, the college and career counselor can guide groups at a time but there’s just one person and no way they can give individualized help to 350-500 graduating high school seniors.

How do you feel about the required counselor letter for seniors? It seems like such a joke. My DD (rising senior) has spent 5 minutes total with her counselor as he signed her class schedule 3 times.

Counselor here that you're addressing. I personally "interviewed" my students to ensure I wrote as positive and thorough and personal a recommendation as possible, but I would agree that teacher recs are likely far more substantive. But this is what schools want, so please encourage your children to get to know their counselor. One misconception kids have is that they need to have a problem to see us. Our whole day is often putting out fires, and we love to just chat and be a source of support for students who simply want to know and have another trusted adult in the building. Even if we leave the school and don't end up writing their recommendation letter, it's always a positive for students to feel a connection with a range of educators.

[Anonymous]

Counselor letter is required because the counselor typically puts in big-picture material. Did your kid take more AP classes than is typical at the school? Did they take the most rigorous path or shortcuts? (For instance, in our school there are a couple of classes that are known to be just as challenging as APs but they don't have the AP label. The counselor can point these out.)

So it's not very personalized, but it does provide the data that a teacher might not.

I also heard from a friend whose kid is at TJ in Virginia that the counselor basically asks the parent to write the personal part of the letter. The friend said she was sure that all schools did that (I've no idea, since my oldest is just a rising junior). To me, that seems like just another way for certain profiles of kids to get an edge over others. If parents are engaged/educated enough to write a great letter, surely those letters end up better than the those in which parents didn't submit any info or did a very cursory job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A paid consultant can help you with some of the strategizing. There are some schools that disproportionately take kids who apply early decision. There are schools that don’t like certain high schools. There are schools that won’t take kids who are overqualified because they know from past yield numbers that these kids are unlikely to matriculate. There are schools that are by-the-numbers, and schools that really have the bandwidth and interest in considering a student as a whole. Then there’s second early—in-the-know kids might choose to have a second-early decision choice if their first choice rejects them. Some kids need to get creative about scholarships to make early decision a worthwhile gamble. These are all just examples, but not everyone is savvy. I am a school counselor and can give this type of advice, but not because of any specialized training or grad school course or PD in MCPS. I know my colleagues wouldn’t be able to do the same, though they certainly have strengths in other areas that I lack. This isn’t meant to be a boast—I just took a personal interest in the topic, maybe because I find it a fun challenge to figure out the system—to the extent possible, it’s pretty broken. Anyway, the college and career counselor can guide groups at a time but there’s just one person and no way they can give individualized help to 350-500 graduating high school seniors.

How do you feel about the required counselor letter for seniors? It seems like such a joke. My DD (rising senior) has spent 5 minutes total with her counselor as he signed her class schedule 3 times.

Counselor here that you're addressing. I personally "interviewed" my students to ensure I wrote as positive and thorough and personal a recommendation as possible, but I would agree that teacher recs are likely far more substantive. But this is what schools want, so please encourage your children to get to know their counselor. One misconception kids have is that they need to have a problem to see us. Our whole day is often putting out fires, and we love to just chat and be a source of support for students who simply want to know and have another trusted adult in the building. Even if we leave the school and don't end up writing their recommendation letter, it's always a positive for students to feel a connection with a range of educators.

LOL - We can't even get ours to return an email. You will be served at MCPS if your child is a star or troubled. The rest of you must fend for yourselves.