My nephew wants to join the military. I think only suckers agree to fight Republican wars. Advice?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Go take a look at military benefits and pay. It’s pretty good. And the healthcare is free. And the lifestyle is great and you make life long friends.

Spoken like a military recruiter. Or someone who lives in VA and is not a grunt.
Lots of American lives have been broken in Iraq and Afghanistan. I've seen enough funerals to last a long time. And missing limbs. And brain damage.
Are you seriously arguing America hasn't paid any cost for our wars abroad?

All the important members of congress have relatives in the military or were in it. Biden, Lindsey Graham, McCain, Bushes.

Sure, all the old members of congress served in Vietnam or before, or served before Iraq War II like Graham. That's the point. Congress members are mostly NOT sending their kids to fight wars of choice in Iraq. They don't want to throw their kids' lives away for nothing (which is the result of the Iraq War). Why should anyone else?

I was in the military. And I can tell you so many of my male colleagues tell me how they wish they served when they were younger. It’s a thing that once you’ve done it is a real life event to remember. Plus the pay and benefits are great. The chances of dying in combat are low. It’s a risk for sure, but it was the most memorable thing I’ve done. And my colleagues only wish they had known true brotherhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I was in the military. And I can tell you so many of my male colleagues tell me how they wish they served when they were younger. It’s a thing that once you’ve done it is a real life event to remember. Plus the pay and benefits are great. The chances of dying in combat are low. It’s a risk for sure, but it was the most memorable thing I’ve done. And my colleagues only wish they had known true brotherhood.

Did you ask the 6,900 Americans killed in Iraq or Afghanistan? Or their parents? What did THEY say?

(It's easy for older military people to _wish_ they served in those wars. Just like it's easy for members of Congress to send those kids to war based on a lie. Fact is: they didn't serve there.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow. So much misinformation.

Go take a look at military benefits and pay. It’s pretty good. And the healthcare is free. And the lifestyle is great and you make life long friends. All the important members of congress have relatives in the military or were in it. Biden, Lindsey Graham, McCain, Bushes.

What the OP write is some kind of bizarre caricature.

The OP is a disgusting pig. I'm a liberal and my DH is a proud to call himself Army serving as an anesthesiologist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My nephew is from a red area.
He is thinking about joining the military. He (and his Mom) think that this a good way to improve himself.

But we’ve seen what’s happened with our military over the past two decades: a useless war in Iraq, boosted by neocons and for profit of guys like Cheney and Erik Prince. Inability to rebuild Afghanistan, which Bush failed to have an endgame for and got us stuck in it for decades. An endless war on terror initiatiated by the same for-profit republicans, that has created terrorists abroad who hate us. (To be fair, fighting terror is important. But sacrificing our values with Guantanamo, CIA-endorsed torture with no accountability, and unConstitutional domestic wiretaps without following the correct process were major errors.)

In all these misguided conflicts, thousands of American lives were wasted. Truly wasted, though no politician will say so. And the people killed are largely from red states. People in cities largely saw through Bush’s lies and stayed out of fighting. Turns out: they were right.

Now a war in Iran looms. Why would anyone agree to fight that stupid, useless war, run by idiots like Bolton who haven’t learned the mistakes of Iraq?

I have hinted at all this to my nephew. But I’m worried about him. I want to say “Don’t be a sucker. If there is a war in Iran created by the GOP, you’ll fight it and you’ll be throwing away your life for no reason.”

Don’t tell me to stay out of it. I’m close to him and to his dad. The only question is, how do I reach him with the truth? What’s the best strategy to break through the lies he hears all around him in he place he lives? What’s the best approach?

Most people in the military never see combat. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can tell you that in elite Republican circles (donors, politicians, lobbyists, think tanks, the people that control the party) they absolutely do denigrate the people who enlist in the military as stupid. Usually it’s just to lump them in with the other “useful fools” in the GOP base that they can control by controlling the news media and preachers.

But the people who start the wars do look down on people in the military as not being very smart. (As mentioned above: there’s a reason few politicans’ kids are in the military today. It was different 50 years ago.)

So you are saying Republicans are just like democrats?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Members of Congress know the truth too.
Very few Congress members, from both sides of the aisle, have relatives in the military.

This is very different than during Vietnam and WWII, when the sacrifice was much more shared between rich and poor.

Um, what?

19% of today's current Congress have served in the military. That is way higher than the National average for the general population. Lawmakers by far have one of the highest military representations of any career outside of commercial pilots and air traffic controllers.

You speak out of your ass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dear OP, your darling Clinton bombed the heck out of Serbia and Kosovo and Bosnia. Without the UN approval. I suppose this makes no difference to you as pilots were up in the air. and never set foot on the ground? Depleted uranium cluster bombs too, that shook the ground and people are suffering from cancers in % that are unheard of.
But all that we learned on dcum is that you are yet another preachy, judgy aunt that knows what's best for the whole world. Usually it is people like you that are quick to judge, and never there to lend a hand.

Do you have any points beside lame, wan whataboutism to deflect from the GOP's mistaken wars put on a credit card?

I wish there were two sides here. There were two sides in Vietnam, where both LBJ and Nixon bear massive responsibility (JFK much less, as it wasn't really clear how it would turn out in the early years.)

There are not two sides today. Republicans are at fault for getting American kids killed abroad in wars that were mistakes to start.

Two sides, with two Americans? I don't call that two sides in war. There were two sides, Vietnam and invaders of their country. The fact that you are seeing it as a US issue is so wrong and exactly what is wrong with Iran and US today. US is a bully, it causes wars where it has no place. For their own imperial reputation. Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that Democrats starts wars and not just republicans?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dear OP, your darling Clinton bombed the heck out of Serbia and Kosovo and Bosnia. Without the UN approval. I suppose this makes no difference to you as pilots were up in the air. and never set foot on the ground? Depleted uranium cluster bombs too, that shook the ground and people are suffering from cancers in % that are unheard of.
But all that we learned on dcum is that you are yet another preachy, judgy aunt that knows what's best for the whole world. Usually it is people like you that are quick to judge, and never there to lend a hand.

Do you have any points beside lame, wan whataboutism to deflect from the GOP's mistaken wars put on a credit card?

I wish there were two sides here. There were two sides in Vietnam, where both LBJ and Nixon bear massive responsibility (JFK much less, as it wasn't really clear how it would turn out in the early years.)

There are not two sides today. Republicans are at fault for getting American kids killed abroad in wars that were mistakes to start.

Two sides, with two Americans? I don't call that two sides in war. There were two sides, Vietnam and invaders of their country. The fact that you are seeing it as a US issue is so wrong and exactly what is wrong with Iran and US today. US is a bully, it causes wars where it has no place. For their own imperial reputation. Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that Democrats starts wars and not just republicans?

You are nuts. Vietnam war was many years ago and the discussion of joining the military is not relevant. If you don't agree, then pay for this young man to go to college or vocational school. Problem solved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow. So much misinformation.

Go take a look at military benefits and pay. It’s pretty good. And the healthcare is free. And the lifestyle is great and you make life long friends. All the important members of congress have relatives in the military or were in it. Biden, Lindsey Graham, McCain, Bushes.

What the OP write is some kind of bizarre caricature.

Health care is not free. We pay a monthly fee and co-pays and deductibles if medical care is not on base. They also don't cover everything and we pay out of pocket which is really costly. The lifestyle may or may not be great. Clearly you have never done it. Military retirement pay is minimal for enlisted at 20 years. But, it did for my spouse what no one else would do for him - a job, a place to live and an education. Most of those members you are talking about only served a few years. Very different from retirees. The lifestyle can be great for 4-8 years but try it after you have kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dear OP, your darling Clinton bombed the heck out of Serbia and Kosovo and Bosnia. Without the UN approval. I suppose this makes no difference to you as pilots were up in the air. and never set foot on the ground? Depleted uranium cluster bombs too, that shook the ground and people are suffering from cancers in % that are unheard of.
But all that we learned on dcum is that you are yet another preachy, judgy aunt that knows what's best for the whole world. Usually it is people like you that are quick to judge, and never there to lend a hand.

Do you have any points beside lame, wan whataboutism to deflect from the GOP's mistaken wars put on a credit card?

I wish there were two sides here. There were two sides in Vietnam, where both LBJ and Nixon bear massive responsibility (JFK much less, as it wasn't really clear how it would turn out in the early years.)

There are not two sides today. Republicans are at fault for getting American kids killed abroad in wars that were mistakes to start.

Two sides, with two Americans? I don't call that two sides in war. There were two sides, Vietnam and invaders of their country. The fact that you are seeing it as a US issue is so wrong and exactly what is wrong with Iran and US today. US is a bully, it causes wars where it has no place. For their own imperial reputation. Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that Democrats starts wars and not just republicans?

You are nuts. Vietnam war was many years ago and the discussion of joining the military is not relevant. If you don't agree, then pay for this young man to go to college or vocational school. Problem solved.

How about you pay for his funeral, if this nephew gets killed in Iraq, Afghanistan, or this Iran War the current admin wants to start? In fact, pay his parents for the value of his life - a life is usually estimated at over a million dollars.

If you don't agree with him avoiding the military, pay his parents back for their dead kid. Problem solved.

[Anonymous]

OP, encourage your nephew to think critically rather than telling him what you want him to hear. Ask why he's interested. Ask him what he'll do if he is in combat and gets injured or has ptsd. Ask him to look at stats for veteran healthcare and homelessness. Make sure he really understands what he's signing up for rather than what some asshole recruiter tells him.

If you can figure out why he wants to enlist, you might be able to guide him to another safer path to accomplish the same goal.

[Anonymous]

Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that Democrats starts wars and not just republicans?

Because that's wrong. It's a lie. It's something our lying rightwing media might say.
Over the last 50 years, two and a half generations, it is Republicans who have gotten us into disastrous wars without ever admitting their errors.

Iraq and Afghanistan and our current unending war on terror were huge, huge mistakes. These were launched by the institutional Republican party around George Bush.

Those wars, over the last 20 years, have thrown away American lives. Many for no reason at all. Potential enlistees should know this.

[Anonymous]

NP here, I used to work in conflict resolution.

First of all, I'm not commenting on whether I agree or disagree with your point of view.

Your question to DCUM was how to convince him of your position. I think you need to back up to the interests behind the positions, then there is an opportunity to come to a different position that you both can accept.

1) (quote by my mentor) "In order to change someone's mind, you first have to know where their mind is."

I'd add to that that you have to *show* someone that you understand where their mind is, before trying to persuade or teach them where your own mind is.

So if it was me, I'd ask your nephew all about his idea that thinking going into the military is a good idea vs. other options. Ask about his goals, etc. Open-ended questions, inquiry only.

Then articulate it back to your nephew so he thinks that you understand his point of view.

2) For this process to work, you have to be open to persuasion yourself. You have to be open to him in a way that something he says may change your views somewhat. If you are just listening to him with the goal to get him to finish so you get your platform to speak your "truth," it won't work.

3) Then, ask him what he thinks about (some of the areas where you see it differently).

4) Assuming disagreement remains, explain to him why it's important to you that you both figure this out (i.e. that you are worried about him)

Work together to come up with a plan to research areas where you disagree and both need more information/research so as you can end up on the same page.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter commissioned last week. Proudest day of my entire life. God bless the USA.

PP here. I would have been equally proud if she had enlisted.

Add me to the list!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that Democrats starts wars and not just republicans?

Because that's wrong. It's a lie. It's something our lying rightwing media might say.
Over the last 50 years, two and a half generations, it is Republicans who have gotten us into disastrous wars without ever admitting their errors.

Iraq and Afghanistan and our current unending war on terror were huge, huge mistakes. These were launched by the institutional Republican party around George Bush.

Those wars, over the last 20 years, have thrown away American lives. Many for no reason at all. Potential enlistees should know this.

Why not offer to fully pay for college to give him another option? My spouse served 20 years under everything you rant about and never once saw combat.