WPPSI - Caught Cheating?

[Anonymous]

Yes, the test has been compromised. It's insane to keep using the exact test for over 10 years, especially with what's at stake for countless parents. (Worse in NYC with the WPPSI used for some G&T program admissions in public schools.)

In less than one minute I found the WPPSI blocks on Ebay:

http://tinyurl.com/y8on7uv

Is it cheating to play with these blocks and replicate designs? Playskool used to make a product called "color cubes" which had identical red/white cubes too.. so if you get Color Clubes, which are commercially available (now on Ebay) or get these old block sets from old tests - is either "prepping"? or Cheating? And if the kid next door plays with these blocks will he get anotehr 5 points in his PIQ, which might mean something to an admissions person?

[Anonymous]

Wow, that looks boring. I imagined the test was more interesting/challenging than that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do the testers routinely ask parents if the kids have been prepared for the test? It seems like they should.

I think they do, actually. They ask if they have seen this or that.

I think it's fine to expose your kid to a wide variety of mental games. Memory games, fill in the blank games, what comes next games, what belongs in this group games, etc. And there are lots of brainy software and books to increase your kid's IQ. All of that is fine. I just think you are seriously walking on an ethical tightrope when you try to determine what might be on THIS particular IQ test. Making sure you have a confident child who likes thinking games is all you need to strive for.

You are right - but with the plethora of options for preparation and wanting the best for your child - which could mean "leveling the playing field" if the perception is that many, many parents are prepping with the actual test - then that perception creates other ethical issues.

If I hadnt read about psychologists and occupational therapists providing "consultation" to families - which consisted of practicing the test... If I hadn't seen the blocks available on Ebay, the older versions of the tests there too, the $500 workbooks with nearly identical questions, the availability of the exam to any psych grad student... then I wouldn't have any of these questions or issues..

But it seems like the test has been compromised and many parents have access to it one way or another and to varying degrees. And common sense tells me that no parent is going to post on this board that their DC scored 99.9 and that they HAD purchased the blocks on Ebay, etc..

So - am I shortchanging my child by NOT getting these blocks and workbook, looking into consults with psychologists who coach on the test? There's been no definitive response to whether the schools distinguish between kids who get a 97/98 versus the 99.5/99.9 's... I'm confident in my child and expect he'll get a score in the high 90s, but am I making a mistake by not doing all I can to ensure a 99.9????

I think you would be shortchanging your child by compromising your beliefs and acting unethically. You obvously think it's wrong to prep your DC; if not, you wouldn't have posted this. Also, you might want to think about why it means so much for your DC to get into a private school. Even if public is not an option, in your opinion, there certainly are less competitive privates, many of which don't even require the WPPSI. So what's really driving you here? Your concern about your DC's education? Or your desire to be able to say that my DC attends X school or Y school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, that looks boring. I imagined the test was more interesting/challenging than that.

That's one of the subtests. The kids have to copy the designs from a book....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I think you would be shortchanging your child by compromising your beliefs and acting unethically. You obvously think it's wrong to prep your DC; if not, you wouldn't have posted this. Also, you might want to think about why it means so much for your DC to get into a private school. Even if public is not an option, in your opinion, there certainly are less competitive privates, many of which don't even require the WPPSI. So what's really driving you here? Your concern about your DC's education? Or your desire to be able to say that my DC attends X school or Y school?

Honestly, I think I'm trying to rationalize and explain to myself what Im strongly considering at the moment... I can think of it in 2 ways, either I'm compromising my ethics and doing something 'bad' - or, I'm doing something 'right' by making sure my child has the same chance as everyone else. It seems like its not just one or two people doing this kind of obviously unethical prep, but there obviously are MANY who do this...

As for the school question - where we live, public is not an option. We could move, (huge headaches/$$ issues), or we can give these privates our best shot as everyone else is. It's not an ego thing for me, the school name wont be a fashion accessory for me - it's all about my child's education and having qualms about "playing the game".... hope that makes sense.

[Anonymous]

OP, it sounds like you are begging people to tell you that: (1) everyone cheats; (2) it's okay for you to cheat; and (3) you won't get caught. I don't think everyone cheats, and I don't think it's okay to cheat, but I think you probably won't get caught, so if that's what you really want to do, go right ahead. In the end, I don't think it will make any difference. There are tons of high-scoring kids around here, prepped or unprepped, and a difference of a few percentiles isn't going to be the make or break factor. Admissions staff would have to be complete idiots to rely on a single flawed test to that degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, it sounds like you are begging people to tell you that: (1) everyone cheats; (2) it's okay for you to cheat; and (3) you won't get caught. I don't think everyone cheats, and I don't think it's okay to cheat, but I think you probably won't get caught, so if that's what you really want to do, go right ahead. In the end, I don't think it will make any difference. There are tons of high-scoring kids around here, prepped or unprepped, and a difference of a few percentiles isn't going to be the make or break factor. Admissions staff would have to be complete idiots to rely on a single flawed test to that degree.

I think youre exactly right... Though if my child scored a 95, I would have regrets and wonder "if only"... If my child gets a 99.9 and gets in (or doesnt) at least I can reassure myself that I've done everything I could...

[Anonymous]

Thanks to everyone who indulged me in this.. Off to bed..

[Anonymous]

The point is, you DON'T want to do everything you could. You don't.

[Anonymous]

Wow. Call me pollyanna, but I had no idea people prepped for or cheated on these tests, this puts the claimed high scores by all in perspective. I actually took my DD for the test because I wanted to get a handle on her abilities and decide whether there was a need for special schooling (as our first, we had nothing to compare her to and were getting curious based on consistent comments by others over the years). I did not even know you could prep for the tests and I waited until just after her 4th birthday specifically so we could take more complex test because the one for younger children sounded kind of useless to me.

I knew she was (is) very bright, and that was confirmed by the test, but nothing at a level that is going to require special services. (I have a couple of friends with that phenomenon and it really is not what a parent wants)

IMO, it is kind of sad to have so little faith in your child. I would be shocked if the parent of an actually highly gifted child prepped his/her child, just because it would not occur to them as they would have no reason to doubt their child would do extremely well on any such test.

Go ahead, do stimulating activities for your child, it is great for them and they learn to make the most of what they have. Do not, however, fool yourself into thinking you can actually increase their level of innate intelligence. Regardless of what a particular test says, kids that are truly gifted stand out, you cannot hold them back if you tried (at least at a young age).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow. Call me pollyanna, but I had no idea people prepped for or cheated on these tests, this puts the claimed high scores by all in perspective. I actually took my DD for the test because I wanted to get a handle on her abilities and decide whether there was a need for special schooling (as our first, we had nothing to compare her to and were getting curious based on consistent comments by others over the years). I did not even know you could prep for the tests and I waited until just after her 4th birthday specifically so we could take more complex test because the one for younger children sounded kind of useless to me.

I knew she was (is) very bright, and that was confirmed by the test, but nothing at a level that is going to require special services. (I have a couple of friends with that phenomenon and it really is not what a parent wants)

IMO, it is kind of sad to have so little faith in your child. I would be shocked if the parent of an actually highly gifted child prepped his/her child, just because it would not occur to them as they would have no reason to doubt their child would do extremely well on any such test.

Go ahead, do stimulating activities for your child, it is great for them and they learn to make the most of what they have. Do not, however, fool yourself into thinking you can actually increase their level of innate intelligence. Regardless of what a particular test says, kids that are truly gifted stand out, you cannot hold them back if you tried (at least at a young age).

I think youre reducing this discussion into something that isn't true. This isn't about lack of faith in a child's abilities.. nor is it about who is gifted and who isnt.

The majority of the applicants probably score in the 90s on this test. They are all kids from fairly affluent homes, with parents who are educated, have given their kids all possible modes of stimulation, etc.

The WPPSI was NEVER intended to screen for giftedness. The test is fatally flawed in that department, and its essentially useless in distinguishing kids at the upper levels.

So, this argument is about whether to prep a child as many others are doing and make sure your child is competing fairly for a limited number of seats... or, not. The thing is, there's one shot... and there is ample evidence of large numbers doing prep, and only anecdotal comments about "my 99.9 child didn't do anything"....

[Anonymous]

Before our DS took the test, I researched the basics on-line and by speaking with friends, and then spent more time on games that seemed to emphasize the the same types of skills. I certainly didn't buy the test or materials, but in doing activities in preschool workbooks I started to focus on certain areas, such as defining what an object is and what it is used for, identifying shape patterns, etc. It was also important for me to know that there would be writing involved in the test as our DS had not started holding a pencil correctly yet, and we had not encouraged him to do so over the summer though it had been something we thought we'd need to work with him on. I think this is a reasonable approach. I was not using the test to find out about my DS's IQ or to identify any problems. All I care about with respect to this test is what it does for him in the admissions process. For those who say I'm doing him a disservice by perhaps having him wind up at a school where he can't hack it, I disagree. Even if the test were indicative of future academic ability (which I don't think it really is), the schools we are considering pretty clearly take students with a range of performance on these tests and academic abilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Before our DS took the test, I researched the basics on-line and by speaking with friends, and then spent more time on games that seemed to emphasize the the same types of skills. I certainly didn't buy the test or materials, but in doing activities in preschool workbooks I started to focus on certain areas, such as defining what an object is and what it is used for, identifying shape patterns, etc. It was also important for me to know that there would be writing involved in the test as our DS had not started holding a pencil correctly yet, and we had not encouraged him to do so over the summer though it had been something we thought we'd need to work with him on. I think this is a reasonable approach. I was not using the test to find out about my DS's IQ or to identify any problems. All I care about with respect to this test is what it does for him in the admissions process. For those who say I'm doing him a disservice by perhaps having him wind up at a school where he can't hack it, I disagree. Even if the test were indicative of future academic ability (which I don't think it really is), the schools we are considering pretty clearly take students with a range of performance on these tests and academic abilities.

This sounds very sensible...

[Anonymous]

Would those who prepped be willing to volunteer to the tester that you prepped? If the tester asked whether you'd prepped, would you lie?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. Call me pollyanna, but I had no idea people prepped for or cheated on these tests, this puts the claimed high scores by all in perspective. I actually took my DD for the test because I wanted to get a handle on her abilities and decide whether there was a need for special schooling (as our first, we had nothing to compare her to and were getting curious based on consistent comments by others over the years). I did not even know you could prep for the tests and I waited until just after her 4th birthday specifically so we could take more complex test because the one for younger children sounded kind of useless to me.

I knew she was (is) very bright, and that was confirmed by the test, but nothing at a level that is going to require special services. (I have a couple of friends with that phenomenon and it really is not what a parent wants)

IMO, it is kind of sad to have so little faith in your child. I would be shocked if the parent of an actually highly gifted child prepped his/her child, just because it would not occur to them as they would have no reason to doubt their child would do extremely well on any such test.

Go ahead, do stimulating activities for your child, it is great for them and they learn to make the most of what they have. Do not, however, fool yourself into thinking you can actually increase their level of innate intelligence. Regardless of what a particular test says, kids that are truly gifted stand out, you cannot hold them back if you tried (at least at a young age).

I think youre reducing this discussion into something that isn't true. This isn't about lack of faith in a child's abilities.. nor is it about who is gifted and who isnt.

The majority of the applicants probably score in the 90s on this test. They are all kids from fairly affluent homes, with parents who are educated, have given their kids all possible modes of stimulation, etc.

The WPPSI was NEVER intended to screen for giftedness. The test is fatally flawed in that department, and its essentially useless in distinguishing kids at the upper levels.

So, this argument is about whether to prep a child as many others are doing and make sure your child is competing fairly for a limited number of seats... or, not. The thing is, there's one shot... and there is ample evidence of large numbers doing prep, and only anecdotal comments about "my 99.9 child didn't do anything"....

But what about the fact that two wrongs don't make a right? It may sound simplistic, but it's true. Just because others are doing it does not make it right. If your DC came home and told you everyone was cheating on a spelling test would you tell him to join in? More importantly, I know there are at least some children who are not prepped for this test and still perform exceptionally well. Just think, you might have one of those children, but if you prep him/her, you'll never know. Plus, this process is stressful enough, do you really want to add the stress of getting caught cheating?