proof of residency question

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, I should have mentioned I do live in the city and pay taxes in dc

I’d never want to put DD in a situation where she would have to lie. If I owned the home that was IB though, and was letting my mother live there until we moved in would parents really report me?!? (I obviously get the frustration when you see Maryland tags in the carpool line)

So you do recognize that wouldn't be allowed? Whether your mother would turn you in is a completely different question than whether you are permitted to use an address where your kid doesn't live.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, if you're here asking if it's OK to use your mom's address for a school, I'd wager that you don't have the moxie to pull this off. In these situations, my advice would to be pay your DC taxes where you like, as long as a family member owns the house and it's not rented out. Nobody's business but yours where you sleep. Collect a stack of residency docs in case you're investigation for residency fraud, and don't advertise where your residency situation at the school you use. If you get investigated, switch houses with your mom til things blow over. If you need your choice validated by non family members, you're not cut out for this shades-of-gray approach to residency. The holier than though moralists on these threads are blowhards who deserve to be ignored.

I respect you for at least detailing how this is fraudulent. What annoys me is when people claim it isn't.

Fradulent, whatever. We use a property we jointly own w/grandparents as our IB address. We renovated the house extensively, mainly through sweat equity and love the place. Kids stay there often. We tune out the small number of school busybodies whisper about us. DCPS investigated us and cleared us years back. If you want to use a relative's address for IB, have the good sense not to talk about it, and to keep your chin up. In the grand scheme of things, you pay plenty in taxes to the City and even the best DCPS schools are no great prize, OP.

You’re a horrible person. Your ridiculous sense of entitlement harms people.

+1. I hate people who try justify to themselves why they should get to break the rules.

I hate busybodies, particularly residency vigilantes. I also hate senior DCPS officials who rely on busybodies to tattle on fellow parents to enforce residency, rather than designing and implementing a competent, if not foolproof, residency verification system for the 21st century. If you could collect a stack of residency documents and submit them to a school registrar annually, particularly documents showing DC withholding, your family members should be able to sleep where they want without being hassled by anybody.

The strongest sense of entitlement that comes through on residency threads is that of parents with access to the most upscale DCPS schools who protect their turf with jealousy and venom. Ech.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, I should have mentioned I do live in the city and pay taxes in dc

I’d never want to put DD in a situation where she would have to lie. If I owned the home that was IB though, and was letting my mother live there until we moved in would parents really report me?!? (I obviously get the frustration when you see Maryland tags in the carpool line)

So you do recognize that wouldn't be allowed? Whether your mother would turn you in is a completely different question than whether you are permitted to use an address where your kid doesn't live.

Who defines where your kid lives? The school residency rules in many jurisdictions define it clearly, e.g. the kid must sleep at X residence at least 50% of the nights in the year to attend an in-boundary school. Look at the school residency rules for upscale school districts in the suburbs of cities like Boston, Chicago and NYC for good models. Unfortunately, DCPS doesn't bother with clear rules residency purposes. You can be a creep who follows suspected cheaters home, photographing them, without changing this inconvenient truth.

My own kid, a DCPS student, divides his time between the DC residences of separated spouses and a grandparent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, if you're here asking if it's OK to use your mom's address for a school, I'd wager that you don't have the moxie to pull this off. In these situations, my advice would to be pay your DC taxes where you like, as long as a family member owns the house and it's not rented out. Nobody's business but yours where you sleep. Collect a stack of residency docs in case you're investigation for residency fraud, and don't advertise where your residency situation at the school you use. If you get investigated, switch houses with your mom til things blow over. If you need your choice validated by non family members, you're not cut out for this shades-of-gray approach to residency. The holier than though moralists on these threads are blowhards who deserve to be ignored.

I respect you for at least detailing how this is fraudulent. What annoys me is when people claim it isn't.

Fradulent, whatever. We use a property we jointly own w/grandparents as our IB address. We renovated the house extensively, mainly through sweat equity and love the place. Kids stay there often. We tune out the small number of school busybodies whisper about us. DCPS investigated us and cleared us years back. If you want to use a relative's address for IB, have the good sense not to talk about it, and to keep your chin up. In the grand scheme of things, you pay plenty in taxes to the City and even the best DCPS schools are no great prize, OP.

You’re a horrible person. Your ridiculous sense of entitlement harms people.

+1. I hate people who try justify to themselves why they should get to break the rules.

I hate busybodies, particularly residency vigilantes. I also hate senior DCPS officials who rely on busybodies to tattle on fellow parents to enforce residency, rather than designing and implementing a competent, if not foolproof, residency verification system for the 21st century. If you could collect a stack of residency documents and submit them to a school registrar annually, particularly documents showing DC withholding, your family members should be able to sleep where they want without being hassled by anybody.

The strongest sense of entitlement that comes through on residency threads is that of parents with access to the most upscale DCPS schools who protect their turf with jealousy and venom. Ech.

Nope. The strongest sense of entitlement comes from those who want their cake and eat it too. Want my big house and low mortgage and to have my kid not have to go to school in my neighborhood with all these - Ech - neighborhood kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mother lives WOTP and the long term goal is to buy her house from her, but she is not ready to move yet and neither are we.

So my question is what is legal? My choices are 1. do nothing - Stay at our IB school until we actually move (prob not for 3-5 years) and then just transfer DD in at 2nd or 3rd once we actually move OR 2. I'm wondering if it's legal to rent a room from her for next years lottery when DD will be going into K (so she can start off with the class she will eventually be in anyway) or similarly buy the house from her so we legally own it and pay taxes but then rent it back to her until we are all ready to make moves?

Go ahead and cheat. But you should probably be aware that this issue has been getting a lot of attention lately, and a lot of people are really sick and tired of Marylanders and Virginians ripping off the system. So you're a lot more likely to get reported for cheating by one of your child's parents. And DC politicians are coming under a lot more pressure to crack down on cheaters because, again, their constituents are just really sick and tired of this (have you noticed the big signs on Metro buses now, urging the public to turn in residency cheaters?). And if you get caught, it can ugly -- owing half-a-million-dollars ugly. Would you get away with it? Yeah, probably. But the odds aren't quite as in favor of you as they used to be.

That is, one of your child's classmate's parents.

That would give me no pause at all.

Maybe you're politically tone deaf. The politics of this issue are clearly changing. There is no question that it is becoming increasingly risky to cheat.

It all depends on what you're doing to "cheat" on residency. If you own a residential property you use for IB residency, and don't rent it out formally, pretty clearly DCPS doesn't care about your particular variant of "cheating" at this point in time. Not sure if they care about what OP's proposing. They obviously do care a lot more about non-DC residents who don't file DC taxes using DC schools than they did even a few years ago. No question.

True, but I think you're a fool to think that the DC AG doesn't care about fraud on enrollment paperwork. Lying about your child's domicile is fraudulently completing the paperwork. There may not be the same remedies as for not even residing in DC, but I would certainly not be sanguine about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, I should have mentioned I do live in the city and pay taxes in dc

I’d never want to put DD in a situation where she would have to lie. If I owned the home that was IB though, and was letting my mother live there until we moved in would parents really report me?!? (I obviously get the frustration when you see Maryland tags in the carpool line)

So you do recognize that wouldn't be allowed? Whether your mother would turn you in is a completely different question than whether you are permitted to use an address where your kid doesn't live.

Who defines where your kid lives? The school residency rules in many jurisdictions define it clearly, e.g. the kid must sleep at X residence at least 50% of the nights in the year to attend an in-boundary school. Look at the school residency rules for upscale school districts in the suburbs of cities like Boston, Chicago and NYC for good models. Unfortunately, DCPS doesn't bother with clear rules residency purposes. You can be a creep who follows suspected cheaters home, photographing them, without changing this inconvenient truth.

My own kid, a DCPS student, divides his time between the DC residences of separated spouses and a grandparent.

I think it's pretty obvious if the child never sleeps at the house and considers her home to be the out-of-boundaries home, then they are not "domiciled" there. If the child genuinely divides time between custodians at different homes, then the 50-50 split shouldn't be required. One overnight a month at grandma's doesn't cut it.

[Anonymous]

The crowding at those schools is not worth going to jail for fraud, OP. Take a lesson from the college fraudsters. Look at how the world and their own children view them. You would be no different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, if you're here asking if it's OK to use your mom's address for a school, I'd wager that you don't have the moxie to pull this off. In these situations, my advice would to be pay your DC taxes where you like, as long as a family member owns the house and it's not rented out. Nobody's business but yours where you sleep. Collect a stack of residency docs in case you're investigation for residency fraud, and don't advertise where your residency situation at the school you use. If you get investigated, switch houses with your mom til things blow over. If you need your choice validated by non family members, you're not cut out for this shades-of-gray approach to residency. The holier than though moralists on these threads are blowhards who deserve to be ignored.

I respect you for at least detailing how this is fraudulent. What annoys me is when people claim it isn't.

Fradulent, whatever. We use a property we jointly own w/grandparents as our IB address. We renovated the house extensively, mainly through sweat equity and love the place. Kids stay there often. We tune out the small number of school busybodies whisper about us. DCPS investigated us and cleared us years back. If you want to use a relative's address for IB, have the good sense not to talk about it, and to keep your chin up. In the grand scheme of things, you pay plenty in taxes to the City and even the best DCPS schools are no great prize, OP.

You’re a horrible person. Your ridiculous sense of entitlement harms people.

+1. I hate people who try justify to themselves why they should get to break the rules.

I hate busybodies, particularly residency vigilantes. I also hate senior DCPS officials who rely on busybodies to tattle on fellow parents to enforce residency, rather than designing and implementing a competent, if not foolproof, residency verification system for the 21st century. If you could collect a stack of residency documents and submit them to a school registrar annually, particularly documents showing DC withholding, your family members should be able to sleep where they want without being hassled by anybody.

The strongest sense of entitlement that comes through on residency threads is that of parents with access to the most upscale DCPS schools who protect their turf with jealousy and venom. Ech.

Yes, liars and cheaters hate being called out on being liars and cheaters. It goes with the territory. The kind of justification that you engage in is exactly the same that's used by people who are arrested for all sorts of crimes. You think that you "shouldn't be hassled by anybody" because following the law in inconvenient for you. I remember after the silk road online market for stolen identity details was shut down how all of the low level thieves actually went on reddit to complain that they were being oppressed by the government because they were "just trying to make a living" (by stealing other people's identities). You are EXACTLY the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, if you're here asking if it's OK to use your mom's address for a school, I'd wager that you don't have the moxie to pull this off. In these situations, my advice would to be pay your DC taxes where you like, as long as a family member owns the house and it's not rented out. Nobody's business but yours where you sleep. Collect a stack of residency docs in case you're investigation for residency fraud, and don't advertise where your residency situation at the school you use. If you get investigated, switch houses with your mom til things blow over. If you need your choice validated by non family members, you're not cut out for this shades-of-gray approach to residency. The holier than though moralists on these threads are blowhards who deserve to be ignored.

I respect you for at least detailing how this is fraudulent. What annoys me is when people claim it isn't.

Fradulent, whatever. We use a property we jointly own w/grandparents as our IB address. We renovated the house extensively, mainly through sweat equity and love the place. Kids stay there often. We tune out the small number of school busybodies whisper about us. DCPS investigated us and cleared us years back. If you want to use a relative's address for IB, have the good sense not to talk about it, and to keep your chin up. In the grand scheme of things, you pay plenty in taxes to the City and even the best DCPS schools are no great prize, OP.

You’re a horrible person. Your ridiculous sense of entitlement harms people.

+1. I hate people who try justify to themselves why they should get to break the rules.

I hate busybodies, particularly residency vigilantes. I also hate senior DCPS officials who rely on busybodies to tattle on fellow parents to enforce residency, rather than designing and implementing a competent, if not foolproof, residency verification system for the 21st century. If you could collect a stack of residency documents and submit them to a school registrar annually, particularly documents showing DC withholding, your family members should be able to sleep where they want without being hassled by anybody.

The strongest sense of entitlement that comes through on residency threads is that of parents with access to the most upscale DCPS schools who protect their turf with jealousy and venom. Ech.

Yes, liars and cheaters hate being called out on being liars and cheaters. It goes with the territory. The kind of justification that you engage in is exactly the same that's used by people who are arrested for all sorts of crimes. You think that you "shouldn't be hassled by anybody" because following the law in inconvenient for you. I remember after the silk road online market for stolen identity details was shut down how all of the low level thieves actually went on reddit to complain that they were being oppressed by the government because they were "just trying to make a living" (by stealing other people's identities). You are EXACTLY the same.

+1. I love that the “hates busybodies” PP thinks cheating is justified because the systems aren’t foolproof enough. She has zero concern about her personal morality or responsibility. What an awful person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, if you're here asking if it's OK to use your mom's address for a school, I'd wager that you don't have the moxie to pull this off. In these situations, my advice would to be pay your DC taxes where you like, as long as a family member owns the house and it's not rented out. Nobody's business but yours where you sleep. Collect a stack of residency docs in case you're investigation for residency fraud, and don't advertise where your residency situation at the school you use. If you get investigated, switch houses with your mom til things blow over. If you need your choice validated by non family members, you're not cut out for this shades-of-gray approach to residency. The holier than though moralists on these threads are blowhards who deserve to be ignored.

I respect you for at least detailing how this is fraudulent. What annoys me is when people claim it isn't.

Fradulent, whatever. We use a property we jointly own w/grandparents as our IB address. We renovated the house extensively, mainly through sweat equity and love the place. Kids stay there often. We tune out the small number of school busybodies whisper about us. DCPS investigated us and cleared us years back. If you want to use a relative's address for IB, have the good sense not to talk about it, and to keep your chin up. In the grand scheme of things, you pay plenty in taxes to the City and even the best DCPS schools are no great prize, OP.

You’re a horrible person. Your ridiculous sense of entitlement harms people.

+1. I hate people who try justify to themselves why they should get to break the rules.

I hate busybodies, particularly residency vigilantes. I also hate senior DCPS officials who rely on busybodies to tattle on fellow parents to enforce residency, rather than designing and implementing a competent, if not foolproof, residency verification system for the 21st century. If you could collect a stack of residency documents and submit them to a school registrar annually, particularly documents showing DC withholding, your family members should be able to sleep where they want without being hassled by anybody.

The strongest sense of entitlement that comes through on residency threads is that of parents with access to the most upscale DCPS schools who protect their turf with jealousy and venom. Ech.

Translation: I hate getting caught doing something illegal, immoral and/or unethical.

[Anonymous]

If you think someone is cheating, just report them. Here's the form:

https://dcforms.dc.gov/webform/osse-suspicion-non-residency-form

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mother lives WOTP and the long term goal is to buy her house from her, but she is not ready to move yet and neither are we.

So my question is what is legal? My choices are 1. do nothing - Stay at our IB school until we actually move (prob not for 3-5 years) and then just transfer DD in at 2nd or 3rd once we actually move OR 2. I'm wondering if it's legal to rent a room from her for next years lottery when DD will be going into K (so she can start off with the class she will eventually be in anyway) or similarly buy the house from her so we legally own it and pay taxes but then rent it back to her until we are all ready to make moves?

Go ahead and cheat. But you should probably be aware that this issue has been getting a lot of attention lately, and a lot of people are really sick and tired of Marylanders and Virginians ripping off the system. So you're a lot more likely to get reported for cheating by one of your child's parents. And DC politicians are coming under a lot more pressure to crack down on cheaters because, again, their constituents are just really sick and tired of this (have you noticed the big signs on Metro buses now, urging the public to turn in residency cheaters?). And if you get caught, it can ugly -- owing half-a-million-dollars ugly. Would you get away with it? Yeah, probably. But the odds aren't quite as in favor of you as they used to be.

That is, one of your child's classmate's parents.

That would give me no pause at all.

Maybe you're politically tone deaf. The politics of this issue are clearly changing. There is no question that it is becoming increasingly risky to cheat.

It all depends on what you're doing to "cheat" on residency. If you own a residential property you use for IB residency, and don't rent it out formally, pretty clearly DCPS doesn't care about your particular variant of "cheating" at this point in time. Not sure if they care about what OP's proposing. They obviously do care a lot more about non-DC residents who don't file DC taxes using DC schools than they did even a few years ago. No question.

True, but I think you're a fool to think that the DC AG doesn't care about fraud on enrollment paperwork. Lying about your child's domicile is fraudulently completing the paperwork. There may not be the same remedies as for not even residing in DC, but I would certainly not be sanguine about it.

The DC AG has only solicited tips from the public re residency fraud.

Boundary fraud is DCPS’ responsibility to police and enforce. If DCPS were to refer cases to the DCAG then perhaps he would bring a case. So far no interest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mother lives WOTP and the long term goal is to buy her house from her, but she is not ready to move yet and neither are we.

So my question is what is legal? My choices are 1. do nothing - Stay at our IB school until we actually move (prob not for 3-5 years) and then just transfer DD in at 2nd or 3rd once we actually move OR 2. I'm wondering if it's legal to rent a room from her for next years lottery when DD will be going into K (so she can start off with the class she will eventually be in anyway) or similarly buy the house from her so we legally own it and pay taxes but then rent it back to her until we are all ready to make moves?

Go ahead and cheat. But you should probably be aware that this issue has been getting a lot of attention lately, and a lot of people are really sick and tired of Marylanders and Virginians ripping off the system. So you're a lot more likely to get reported for cheating by one of your child's parents. And DC politicians are coming under a lot more pressure to crack down on cheaters because, again, their constituents are just really sick and tired of this (have you noticed the big signs on Metro buses now, urging the public to turn in residency cheaters?). And if you get caught, it can ugly -- owing half-a-million-dollars ugly. Would you get away with it? Yeah, probably. But the odds aren't quite as in favor of you as they used to be.

That is, one of your child's classmate's parents.

That would give me no pause at all.

Maybe you're politically tone deaf. The politics of this issue are clearly changing. There is no question that it is becoming increasingly risky to cheat.

It all depends on what you're doing to "cheat" on residency. If you own a residential property you use for IB residency, and don't rent it out formally, pretty clearly DCPS doesn't care about your particular variant of "cheating" at this point in time. Not sure if they care about what OP's proposing. They obviously do care a lot more about non-DC residents who don't file DC taxes using DC schools than they did even a few years ago. No question.

True, but I think you're a fool to think that the DC AG doesn't care about fraud on enrollment paperwork. Lying about your child's domicile is fraudulently completing the paperwork. There may not be the same remedies as for not even residing in DC, but I would certainly not be sanguine about it.

The DC AG has only solicited tips from the public re residency fraud.

Boundary fraud is DCPS’ responsibility to police and enforce. If DCPS were to refer cases to the DCAG then perhaps he would bring a case. So far no interest.

Exactly right.

You can come on every residency related thread to bitch moan, call boundary cheater PPs names, try to frighten them into submission etc. over and over. But the truth is that that they're free to ignore you if they keep a good stack of current residency docs on hand. DCPS currently cares about parents collecting documents, not where students sleep. If you want to change that, you'd better start lobbying and organizing like crazy, and keep at it for years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, if you're here asking if it's OK to use your mom's address for a school, I'd wager that you don't have the moxie to pull this off. In these situations, my advice would to be pay your DC taxes where you like, as long as a family member owns the house and it's not rented out. Nobody's business but yours where you sleep. Collect a stack of residency docs in case you're investigation for residency fraud, and don't advertise where your residency situation at the school you use. If you get investigated, switch houses with your mom til things blow over. If you need your choice validated by non family members, you're not cut out for this shades-of-gray approach to residency. The holier than though moralists on these threads are blowhards who deserve to be ignored.

I respect you for at least detailing how this is fraudulent. What annoys me is when people claim it isn't.

Fradulent, whatever. We use a property we jointly own w/grandparents as our IB address. We renovated the house extensively, mainly through sweat equity and love the place. Kids stay there often. We tune out the small number of school busybodies whisper about us. DCPS investigated us and cleared us years back. If you want to use a relative's address for IB, have the good sense not to talk about it, and to keep your chin up. In the grand scheme of things, you pay plenty in taxes to the City and even the best DCPS schools are no great prize, OP.

You’re a horrible person. Your ridiculous sense of entitlement harms people.

+1. I hate people who try justify to themselves why they should get to break the rules.

I hate busybodies, particularly residency vigilantes. I also hate senior DCPS officials who rely on busybodies to tattle on fellow parents to enforce residency, rather than designing and implementing a competent, if not foolproof, residency verification system for the 21st century. If you could collect a stack of residency documents and submit them to a school registrar annually, particularly documents showing DC withholding, your family members should be able to sleep where they want without being hassled by anybody.

The strongest sense of entitlement that comes through on residency threads is that of parents with access to the most upscale DCPS schools who protect their turf with jealousy and venom. Ech.

Translation: I hate getting caught doing something illegal, immoral and/or unethical.

Translation, get a life and mind your own business. If PPs are going to cheat, they might just get caught. Report them if you must, then get on with things you need to do.

[Anonymous]

Every residency thread starts and ends the same way. Pointless to post on them.