Tired of teacher friends complaining

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a teacher but I'm close to a LOT of people who are. My perception has changed significantly, for the reasons mentioned below.

I think a lot of what's been mentioned here is spot-on. The points that resonate most with me are:

- The perception, even by those who plan to go into teaching, that it's easy and then you get there and it's SO HARD. Constantly being 'on' is very, very difficult both physically and emotionally. There is no downtime. I would joke with teachers about how they never had to pee when we were out and they'd say that their bodies had been trained not to after days teaching elementary school. Yes, teachers know the pay is low (and actually, its not THAT low - MCPS teachers regularly make 80-90k and work 9 months a year) but the day to day is more of a grind than most expect.

- The culture of complaining. This is a teacher thing. My in laws are teachers and were so upset when their state discontinued teacher pensions (they'd already gotten them, this was on principle). My husband was like you guys know basically no other profession gets this, right? People don't appreciate teachers enough, and they know it, so they complain to each other. a LOT.

- The hours thing. Yes, they get more time off than the average private sector employee. But they days are LONG - often starting at 7am and finishing at 5 or 6 - with very little downtime. Administration has to be dealt with. Parents have to be dealt with. Stuff has to be graded, lessons have to be planned - it's not like teachers leave with kids at 2:30.

I'd never be a teacher and I have the ultimate respect for those who are good ones.

MCPS teachers work 10 months a year, not 9. This is my 13th year in the profession - I have a Masters. I've just gotten to 86k. I got my "step" this year that was held back in 2012. We were supposed to get that make up step last year, but it didn't happen. So, to say that we "regularly" make 80-90K isn't exactly correct, though I agree that the salary is good here if you stick with it.

Thanks for your support otherwise, though. Being "on" all day is one of the hardest parts of the profession.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well it IS kind of normal (and teachers do tend to complain to each other when they are outside of school). And also, they DO get paid ridiculously low salaries for the amount of stress they are under.
Yes, your job is super-stressful too, but you likely get compensated for it in a way that teachers do not. AND, the thing you (and even many teachers before they are IN the job) may not realize is that it is literally one of the only jobs that you simply can NEVER leave "at the office" for the next day. There is always planning to do...and grading...and more planning...and more grading. There is no "down time" to do this at work because they are always ON when they have a class of students. There is no hiding in your office or sitting quietly in a meeting pretending to be paying attention. (I know you don't always do this, OP, but you *could* do it. It's an option. And that's sort of the point.) With teaching, the work is constant and ongoing from the minute you step into the school to the minute you leave. And then you take it with you.

Oops. I accidentally sound just like your friends. LOL

But that is probably why I left the profession after 8 years. And lemme tell ya...I have worked 3 different "office jobs" since--one was a law firm, one was a publishing house, and now I'm at a marketing firm (I have a Masters in English) and I haven't found an environment yet that is as stressful as teaching.

I hear you. But, I also don’t get whole summers off?

It's not a "summer off" because there is no summer pay.

Teachers I know can choose to have their 12 month pay paid out over the school year, or get it stretched out over the full 12 months. Not tricking me. Not our fault you get it throughout the year and don’t plan for the summer.

I didn't say I don't plan for summer - I actually work quite a bit over summer, and have for over a decade. Many of us have side hustles and summer jobs.

Yes, you can plan to stretch out your pay over 12 months, but it's just that - stretching it out. You're still working and getting paid for only 10 months worth of work, not 12.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didn't say I don't plan for summer - I actually work quite a bit over summer, and have for over a decade. Many of us have side hustles and summer jobs.

Yes, you can plan to stretch out your pay over 12 months, but it's just that - stretching it out. You're still working and getting paid for only 10 months worth of work, not 12.

Or, consider it that you get paid annually, but are only expected to work 10 of those 12 months. You can choose whether to get paid all 12, or have the paychecks align with the months in which you work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well it IS kind of normal (and teachers do tend to complain to each other when they are outside of school). And also, they DO get paid ridiculously low salaries for the amount of stress they are under.
Yes, your job is super-stressful too, but you likely get compensated for it in a way that teachers do not. AND, the thing you (and even many teachers before they are IN the job) may not realize is that it is literally one of the only jobs that you simply can NEVER leave "at the office" for the next day. There is always planning to do...and grading...and more planning...and more grading. There is no "down time" to do this at work because they are always ON when they have a class of students. There is no hiding in your office or sitting quietly in a meeting pretending to be paying attention. (I know you don't always do this, OP, but you *could* do it. It's an option. And that's sort of the point.) With teaching, the work is constant and ongoing from the minute you step into the school to the minute you leave. And then you take it with you.

Oops. I accidentally sound just like your friends. LOL

But that is probably why I left the profession after 8 years. And lemme tell ya...I have worked 3 different "office jobs" since--one was a law firm, one was a publishing house, and now I'm at a marketing firm (I have a Masters in English) and I haven't found an environment yet that is as stressful as teaching.

I hear you. But, I also don’t get whole summers off?

It's not a "summer off" because there is no summer pay.

Teachers I know can choose to have their 12 month pay paid out over the school year, or get it stretched out over the full 12 months. Not tricking me. Not our fault you get it throughout the year and don’t plan for the summer.

I didn't say I don't plan for summer - I actually work quite a bit over summer, and have for over a decade. Many of us have side hustles and summer jobs.

Yes, you can plan to stretch out your pay over 12 months, but it's just that - stretching it out. You're still working and getting paid for only 10 months worth of work, not 12.

This argument is ridiculous. I get six weeks of PTO, plus nine holidays at my job. So by your calculation I am only paid for 10 months of the year?

[Anonymous]

I don’t get the “you can’t pee” thing. I mean, how often are you peeing?

I work as an aide, and class starts at 9am. If you pee right before, you can’t make it until noon? I’ve seen many teachers peek into the classroom next door and give a familiar head nod to indicate “keep an eye, running to pee.” And sometimes, you have a special in between! Pee then! Kids are back from lunch before 1, and they have a recess and sometimes a special between 1 and 4 when school’s over.

If you can’t hold it for 3 hours at a time, you should see a doctor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I found out teachers were earning 80-90k I started rolling my eyes.

I make 60k, working 60 hours a week in HR, year round.

Yes my work supplies me with a computer and pens to do my job, but I’m fairly certain teachers aren’t spending 10-20k per year on their classroom.

How old are you? The 80-90k teachers are the experienced ones. Also, 60 hours a week in HR is NOT typical.

I’m in my 30’s. Every place I have worked, i’ve had long hours.

Most people here don’t understand that HR/Finance/Contracts are the first departments to be cut in lean times and they never resume proper staffing levels. I’ve worked in HR for 20 years at big and small companies and hours well over 40 per week is very common.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well it IS kind of normal (and teachers do tend to complain to each other when they are outside of school). And also, they DO get paid ridiculously low salaries for the amount of stress they are under.
Yes, your job is super-stressful too, but you likely get compensated for it in a way that teachers do not. AND, the thing you (and even many teachers before they are IN the job) may not realize is that it is literally one of the only jobs that you simply can NEVER leave "at the office" for the next day. There is always planning to do...and grading...and more planning...and more grading. There is no "down time" to do this at work because they are always ON when they have a class of students. There is no hiding in your office or sitting quietly in a meeting pretending to be paying attention. (I know you don't always do this, OP, but you *could* do it. It's an option. And that's sort of the point.) With teaching, the work is constant and ongoing from the minute you step into the school to the minute you leave. And then you take it with you.

Oops. I accidentally sound just like your friends. LOL

But that is probably why I left the profession after 8 years. And lemme tell ya...I have worked 3 different "office jobs" since--one was a law firm, one was a publishing house, and now I'm at a marketing firm (I have a Masters in English) and I haven't found an environment yet that is as stressful as teaching.

I hear you. But, I also don’t get whole summers off?

It's not a "summer off" because there is no summer pay.

Teachers I know can choose to have their 12 month pay paid out over the school year, or get it stretched out over the full 12 months. Not tricking me. Not our fault you get it throughout the year and don’t plan for the summer.

I didn't say I don't plan for summer - I actually work quite a bit over summer, and have for over a decade. Many of us have side hustles and summer jobs.

Yes, you can plan to stretch out your pay over 12 months, but it's just that - stretching it out. You're still working and getting paid for only 10 months worth of work, not 12.

This argument is ridiculous. I get six weeks of PTO, plus nine holidays at my job. So by your calculation I am only paid for 10 months of the year?

Teachers get PTO and holidays as part of the 10 month calendar. We are paid over winter break, spring break, and other random holidays. We also get a certain amount of PTO that accumulates and rolls over into the next year - sick and personal leave (mine has been exhausted twice now for maternity leave, by the way - it comes from our PTO only [and before you come for me, yes I do realize there are many professions where there is no paid maternity or maternity leave]).

I'm not making an argument, I'm stating a fact: as 10 month employees, we do not work for two months, and do not get paid for those two months. Some opt to get adjust their pay schedule and get paid less per pay period, but get paid over summer as well. MCPS doesn't offer this - you have to do it through your own bank. Some opt to get paid for the ten months and put some aside on their own. Some need every bit and then some, and therefore choose to work over the summer at a separate gig - enrichment centers, summer school, tutoring, etc.

Yes, I chose this life; I love the profession, and I know I'll never be a millionaire. I don't think I often complain about the workload. Some days are hard, but that's any profession, right? On the contrary, I often profess how much I love this job. I look forward to coming to work and teaching your children, even if it's pretty easy to be mean to folks in our profession on an anonymous forum. We take care of your kids every day, and most of us really enjoy it (I don't know all teachers everywhere, so I cannot speak for them). And despite the pettiness of DCUM, your kids are pretty wonderful human beings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well it IS kind of normal (and teachers do tend to complain to each other when they are outside of school). And also, they DO get paid ridiculously low salaries for the amount of stress they are under.
Yes, your job is super-stressful too, but you likely get compensated for it in a way that teachers do not. AND, the thing you (and even many teachers before they are IN the job) may not realize is that it is literally one of the only jobs that you simply can NEVER leave "at the office" for the next day. There is always planning to do...and grading...and more planning...and more grading. There is no "down time" to do this at work because they are always ON when they have a class of students. There is no hiding in your office or sitting quietly in a meeting pretending to be paying attention. (I know you don't always do this, OP, but you *could* do it. It's an option. And that's sort of the point.) With teaching, the work is constant and ongoing from the minute you step into the school to the minute you leave. And then you take it with you.

Oops. I accidentally sound just like your friends. LOL

But that is probably why I left the profession after 8 years. And lemme tell ya...I have worked 3 different "office jobs" since--one was a law firm, one was a publishing house, and now I'm at a marketing firm (I have a Masters in English) and I haven't found an environment yet that is as stressful as teaching.

I hear you. But, I also don’t get whole summers off?

It's not a "summer off" because there is no summer pay.

Teachers I know can choose to have their 12 month pay paid out over the school year, or get it stretched out over the full 12 months. Not tricking me. Not our fault you get it throughout the year and don’t plan for the summer.

I didn't say I don't plan for summer - I actually work quite a bit over summer, and have for over a decade. Many of us have side hustles and summer jobs.

Yes, you can plan to stretch out your pay over 12 months, but it's just that - stretching it out. You're still working and getting paid for only 10 months worth of work, not 12.

This argument is ridiculous. I get six weeks of PTO, plus nine holidays at my job. So by your calculation I am only paid for 10 months of the year?

Teachers get PTO and holidays as part of the 10 month calendar. We are paid over winter break, spring break, and other random holidays. We also get a certain amount of PTO that accumulates and rolls over into the next year - sick and personal leave (mine has been exhausted twice now for maternity leave, by the way - it comes from our PTO only [and before you come for me, yes I do realize there are many professions where there is no paid maternity or maternity leave]).

I'm not making an argument, I'm stating a fact: as 10 month employees, we do not work for two months, and do not get paid for those two months. Some opt to get adjust their pay schedule and get paid less per pay period, but get paid over summer as well. MCPS doesn't offer this - you have to do it through your own bank. Some opt to get paid for the ten months and put some aside on their own. Some need every bit and then some, and therefore choose to work over the summer at a separate gig - enrichment centers, summer school, tutoring, etc.

Yes, I chose this life; I love the profession, and I know I'll never be a millionaire. I don't think I often complain about the workload. Some days are hard, but that's any profession, right? On the contrary, I often profess how much I love this job. I look forward to coming to work and teaching your children, even if it's pretty easy to be mean to folks in our profession on an anonymous forum. We take care of your kids every day, and most of us really enjoy it (I don't know all teachers everywhere, so I cannot speak for them). And despite the pettiness of DCUM, your kids are pretty wonderful human beings.

Thanks for this, PP. I hope you're my kid's teacher!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't say I don't plan for summer - I actually work quite a bit over summer, and have for over a decade. Many of us have side hustles and summer jobs.

Yes, you can plan to stretch out your pay over 12 months, but it's just that - stretching it out. You're still working and getting paid for only 10 months worth of work, not 12.

Or, consider it that you get paid annually, but are only expected to work 10 of those 12 months. You can choose whether to get paid all 12, or have the paychecks align with the months in which you work.

I'm sorry, are you stupid?

Teachers work 10 months and are paid 10 months. If their "salary" were applied across 12 months, it would be significantly smaller.

I currently teach for the MSDE in the juvenile detention facilities. We technically earn significantly more than city or county teachers, but hourly we are on the exact same pay schedule. We, however, work Christmas break and all summer, do not take spring break or fall break or any holidays, and are thus compensated that time where regular public schools are not. They are paid for the time they work. 10 months.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well it IS kind of normal (and teachers do tend to complain to each other when they are outside of school). And also, they DO get paid ridiculously low salaries for the amount of stress they are under.
Yes, your job is super-stressful too, but you likely get compensated for it in a way that teachers do not. AND, the thing you (and even many teachers before they are IN the job) may not realize is that it is literally one of the only jobs that you simply can NEVER leave "at the office" for the next day. There is always planning to do...and grading...and more planning...and more grading. There is no "down time" to do this at work because they are always ON when they have a class of students. There is no hiding in your office or sitting quietly in a meeting pretending to be paying attention. (I know you don't always do this, OP, but you *could* do it. It's an option. And that's sort of the point.) With teaching, the work is constant and ongoing from the minute you step into the school to the minute you leave. And then you take it with you.

Oops. I accidentally sound just like your friends. LOL

But that is probably why I left the profession after 8 years. And lemme tell ya...I have worked 3 different "office jobs" since--one was a law firm, one was a publishing house, and now I'm at a marketing firm (I have a Masters in English) and I haven't found an environment yet that is as stressful as teaching.

I hear you. But, I also don’t get whole summers off?

It's not a "summer off" because there is no summer pay.

Teachers I know can choose to have their 12 month pay paid out over the school year, or get it stretched out over the full 12 months. Not tricking me. Not our fault you get it throughout the year and don’t plan for the summer.

I didn't say I don't plan for summer - I actually work quite a bit over summer, and have for over a decade. Many of us have side hustles and summer jobs.

Yes, you can plan to stretch out your pay over 12 months, but it's just that - stretching it out. You're still working and getting paid for only 10 months worth of work, not 12.

This argument is ridiculous. I get six weeks of PTO, plus nine holidays at my job. So by your calculation I am only paid for 10 months of the year?

Teachers get PTO and holidays as part of the 10 month calendar. We are paid over winter break, spring break, and other random holidays. We also get a certain amount of PTO that accumulates and rolls over into the next year - sick and personal leave (mine has been exhausted twice now for maternity leave, by the way - it comes from our PTO only [and before you come for me, yes I do realize there are many professions where there is no paid maternity or maternity leave]).

I'm not making an argument, I'm stating a fact: as 10 month employees, we do not work for two months, and do not get paid for those two months. Some opt to get adjust their pay schedule and get paid less per pay period, but get paid over summer as well. MCPS doesn't offer this - you have to do it through your own bank. Some opt to get paid for the ten months and put some aside on their own. Some need every bit and then some, and therefore choose to work over the summer at a separate gig - enrichment centers, summer school, tutoring, etc.

Yes, I chose this life; I love the profession, and I know I'll never be a millionaire. I don't think I often complain about the workload. Some days are hard, but that's any profession, right? On the contrary, I often profess how much I love this job. I look forward to coming to work and teaching your children, even if it's pretty easy to be mean to folks in our profession on an anonymous forum. We take care of your kids every day, and most of us really enjoy it (I don't know all teachers everywhere, so I cannot speak for them). And despite the pettiness of DCUM, your kids are pretty wonderful human beings.

PP here. I actually agree with you about the difficulty of the profession. We've removed all other safety nets in society so now we look to schools to do all the million things we should be doing for our populous. THAT SAID, you are being paid an annual salary regardless of how it's split up. Do you not have health care benefits over the summer?

Lots of professions get paid at random times. Some people in things like real estate get paid quarterly. Partners at big law firms often get more than half their income (bonus) at one time.

You are being paid for a full time position that happens to have a lot of time off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't say I don't plan for summer - I actually work quite a bit over summer, and have for over a decade. Many of us have side hustles and summer jobs.

Yes, you can plan to stretch out your pay over 12 months, but it's just that - stretching it out. You're still working and getting paid for only 10 months worth of work, not 12.

Or, consider it that you get paid annually, but are only expected to work 10 of those 12 months. You can choose whether to get paid all 12, or have the paychecks align with the months in which you work.

I'm sorry, are you stupid?

Teachers work 10 months and are paid 10 months. If their "salary" were applied across 12 months, it would be significantly smaller.

I currently teach for the MSDE in the juvenile detention facilities. We technically earn significantly more than city or county teachers, but hourly we are on the exact same pay schedule. We, however, work Christmas break and all summer, do not take spring break or fall break or any holidays, and are thus compensated that time where regular public schools are not. They are paid for the time they work. 10 months.

Their lower number of work days are factored into their annual salary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Serious question - WHY don't people who go into teaching know all of this? It's one of the only professions I know where spending a semester in the profession (aka student teaching) is required. You have an entire semester or more working in a school. Are you not talking to the full-time teachers, the administrators, learning about what it takes?

I'm the child of a teacher and yes it is a highly stressful job, but for goodness sakes I see no reason why in this day and age anyone should be surprised by this. Big law associates may complain but they know what they're signing up for. Same with teachers, complain all you want but this shouldn't be a shock. You did your student teaching. Hopefully you engaged in thorough and in-depth interviews to get the job.

I agree we should compensate teachers more than we do, but I don't get the rest of it.

Yep. This thread is full of reasons that teaching is hard. I agree with every single one of them. That is why I am not a teacher. I respect the people who are, and I think we should do better for them, but I don't understand culture of complaining or the apparent surprise about conditions and pay.

A friend of mine (late 30s) is on her fourth career change within the education field, this time from classroom teaching to curriculum development for state government. Each new job pays less than the one before. She seems surprised about the salary every time. Her mom has always been a teacher, working hard for little money, but my friend repeatedly brings up how surprising it is that she is paid so little. We were just on the phone last week and she was describing how her new job rewards tenure (it takes over a year to get in and get established, but once you're in you have good benefits and a pension and so on). She says she'll likely quit within the year because getting in was such a pain that she's over the whole thing. It's to the point I no longer want to see her, because she constantly complains about work as if it's something being done to her instead of something she is doing to herself.

Another teacher friend finds ways to bring up her low salary in any conversation. She recently told me her salary was like being furloughed. I am furloughed and she didn't even know because I don't complain constantly.

[Anonymous]

If teachers had to work 48-50 weeks a year they'd really bitch. School averages 180 days or 36 weeks. You never hear them bitch in July. Teaching is tough having to deal with unruly students and helicopter parents but there is a lot of downtime. If they want to earn more money don't be off for 16 weeks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well it IS kind of normal (and teachers do tend to complain to each other when they are outside of school). And also, they DO get paid ridiculously low salaries for the amount of stress they are under.
Yes, your job is super-stressful too, but you likely get compensated for it in a way that teachers do not. AND, the thing you (and even many teachers before they are IN the job) may not realize is that it is literally one of the only jobs that you simply can NEVER leave "at the office" for the next day. There is always planning to do...and grading...and more planning...and more grading. There is no "down time" to do this at work because they are always ON when they have a class of students. There is no hiding in your office or sitting quietly in a meeting pretending to be paying attention. (I know you don't always do this, OP, but you *could* do it. It's an option. And that's sort of the point.) With teaching, the work is constant and ongoing from the minute you step into the school to the minute you leave. And then you take it with you.

Oops. I accidentally sound just like your friends. LOL

But that is probably why I left the profession after 8 years. And lemme tell ya...I have worked 3 different "office jobs" since--one was a law firm, one was a publishing house, and now I'm at a marketing firm (I have a Masters in English) and I haven't found an environment yet that is as stressful as teaching.

All of these. I am not a teacher, but i have a close friend who is, and my mom taught for 10 years between her engineering jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't say I don't plan for summer - I actually work quite a bit over summer, and have for over a decade. Many of us have side hustles and summer jobs.

Yes, you can plan to stretch out your pay over 12 months, but it's just that - stretching it out. You're still working and getting paid for only 10 months worth of work, not 12.

Or, consider it that you get paid annually, but are only expected to work 10 of those 12 months. You can choose whether to get paid all 12, or have the paychecks align with the months in which you work.

I'm sorry, are you stupid?

Teachers work 10 months and are paid 10 months. If their "salary" were applied across 12 months, it would be significantly smaller.

I currently teach for the MSDE in the juvenile detention facilities. We technically earn significantly more than city or county teachers, but hourly we are on the exact same pay schedule. We, however, work Christmas break and all summer, do not take spring break or fall break or any holidays, and are thus compensated that time where regular public schools are not. They are paid for the time they work. 10 months.

Classy. Hopefully, you stay right where you’re at. The students seem to be rubbing off on you.