rule about MAX classroom numbers in FCPS???

[Anonymous]

^^ Fairfax County (Vienna), not Fairfax town

[Anonymous]

we would send DC to Nysmith (already applied and got in as a back-up plan). we just WANTED public to work....but not sure we should take the chance with this situation.
-OP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our AAP center in Fairfax has small classes in the upper ES grades. The classes are evenly split with between 22-26 per grade, with Gen Ed having the larger number; however a few GE kids are pulled into some of the AAP classes for core learning.

And, this is the problem with having special programs in the schools. It is likely that if the principal didn't have to staff those grade levels separately, that all classes would have the same. If I were the principal, gen ed would have the smaller classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD’s 1st grade class had 31 last year. All of the 1st grade classes had 30 or 31. Aids were adde later but were not there at the beginning of the year.

Also, the principal met with us and spoke about how they had funding for another teacher to split up the classes but didn’t have any qualified applicants because of the teacher shortage and no available classrooms. DD was fine and had actually had a great year despite my initial concerns.

We were told the same with 30-31 in grade 3.

Are these principals writing the state? The law is 30.They need permission to go over.

I didn’t ask that but she has good points. They didn’t have a classroom and if they put a trailer outside it would likely be staffed by subs most or all of the year. That wouldn’t have been a better alternative. The teacher shortage and space shortage is real.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD’s 1st grade class had 31 last year. All of the 1st grade classes had 30 or 31. Aids were adde later but were not there at the beginning of the year.

Also, the principal met with us and spoke about how they had funding for another teacher to split up the classes but didn’t have any qualified applicants because of the teacher shortage and no available classrooms. DD was fine and had actually had a great year despite my initial concerns.

We were told the same with 30-31 in grade 3.

Are these principals writing the state? The law is 30.They need permission to go over.

I didn’t ask that but she has good points. They didn’t have a classroom and if they put a trailer outside it would likely be staffed by subs most or all of the year. That wouldn’t have been a better alternative. The teacher shortage and space shortage is real.

The quality of the teacher may be an issue, but children all over FCPS. Likely the principal just didn't ask for staff on time.

[Anonymous]

Meant to say children are in trailers all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD’s 1st grade class had 31 last year. All of the 1st grade classes had 30 or 31. Aids were adde later but were not there at the beginning of the year.

Also, the principal met with us and spoke about how they had funding for another teacher to split up the classes but didn’t have any qualified applicants because of the teacher shortage and no available classrooms. DD was fine and had actually had a great year despite my initial concerns.

We were told the same with 30-31 in grade 3.

Are these principals writing the state? The law is 30.They need permission to go over.

I didn’t ask that but she has good points. They didn’t have a classroom and if they put a trailer outside it would likely be staffed by subs most or all of the year. That wouldn’t have been a better alternative. The teacher shortage and space shortage is real.

If not for the difference in grade level I'd think we are discussing the same school. Ours did add trailers this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our AAP center in Fairfax has small classes in the upper ES grades. The classes are evenly split with between 22-26 per grade, with Gen Ed having the larger number; however a few GE kids are pulled into some of the AAP classes for core learning.

And, this is the problem with having special programs in the schools. It is likely that if the principal didn't have to staff those grade levels separately, that all classes would have the same. If I were the principal, gen ed would have the smaller classes.

I’m not sure it’s always in the principal’s hands. The way the numbers shake out they could be forced to add the extra teacher for AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD’s 1st grade class had 31 last year. All of the 1st grade classes had 30 or 31. Aids were adde later but were not there at the beginning of the year.

Also, the principal met with us and spoke about how they had funding for another teacher to split up the classes but didn’t have any qualified applicants because of the teacher shortage and no available classrooms. DD was fine and had actually had a great year despite my initial concerns.

We were told the same with 30-31 in grade 3.

Are these principals writing the state? The law is 30.They need permission to go over.

I didn’t ask that but she has good points. They didn’t have a classroom and if they put a trailer outside it would likely be staffed by subs most or all of the year. That wouldn’t have been a better alternative. The teacher shortage and space shortage is real.

The quality of the teacher may be an issue, but children all over FCPS. Likely the principal just didn't ask for staff on time.

Pardon my French, but are you trying to present yourself as the biggest jackass on DCUM with such an asinine, ill-informed statement???? Let me help you understand how this works, and then maybe you can stop blathering on about which you do not know. Principals are given staffing numbers based on current and projected enrollments in April. We look at who is staying, who is leaving and where the holes are. We interview and hire great teachers. And then the pool becomes very shallow in June because, as others have noted, there is a teacher shortage. (Why would anyone want to go into it these days with all the teacher bashing here and elsewhere?)
Beginning at the third week in July, we HAVE to submit class size reports where we report the number students in each class. We include the students currently registered and also share the numbers of those registrations that are pending (they’ve started the registration process, but haven’t been entered into SIS.) HR, Finance and the assistant superintendents go over these reports school by school, class by class. At the end of the meeting, the school stays the same, loses a staffing position or gains. Teachers that are de-staffed can then be picked up by a school that gained. They interview with the principal, and if it’s a match, the transfer is made.
This process happens every 2 weeks. My inbox has been flooded with requests from colleagues looking for teachers: “Anyone lose an amazing 6th grade teacher? We just gained one at yesterday’s staffing. Send them my way.” Rinse and repeat.

Kids are enrolling everyday. Numbers are fluctuating. Grade levels that hit 29/30 are given a teacher position. The last staffing meeting was 2 days ago and will continue after school begins. There are no good candidates left unless by some miracle, a spouse of an amazing teacher gets transferred to the area. The only other alternative is to hire two instructional assstants in place of one teacher. Those assistants can then support those large classes full-time.

It is rough, and no principal or teaching staff is sitting around twiddling their thumbs about this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Meant to say children are in trailers all the time.

True and we have trailers at our school. I posted about my daughter’s first grade class. The principal explained there was a surge of enrollment in the summer. Putting 1st graders in a trailer without bathroom access is not ideal. C’mon. We could not be that unreasonable and want the school to instantly add a trailer, find a good teacher, then redo all of the classes after school started. Parents demanding this are crazy. I was impressed the principal invited all parents to a meeting to address the situation and let us know she was aware. She wasn’t sitting back ignoring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD’s 1st grade class had 31 last year. All of the 1st grade classes had 30 or 31. Aids were adde later but were not there at the beginning of the year.

Also, the principal met with us and spoke about how they had funding for another teacher to split up the classes but didn’t have any qualified applicants because of the teacher shortage and no available classrooms. DD was fine and had actually had a great year despite my initial concerns.

We were told the same with 30-31 in grade 3.

Are these principals writing the state? The law is 30.They need permission to go over.

I didn’t ask that but she has good points. They didn’t have a classroom and if they put a trailer outside it would likely be staffed by subs most or all of the year. That wouldn’t have been a better alternative. The teacher shortage and space shortage is real.

The quality of the teacher may be an issue, but children all over FCPS. Likely the principal just didn't ask for staff on time.

Pardon my French, but are you trying to present yourself as the biggest jackass on DCUM with such an asinine, ill-informed statement???? Let me help you understand how this works, and then maybe you can stop blathering on about which you do not know. Principals are given staffing numbers based on current and projected enrollments in April. We look at who is staying, who is leaving and where the holes are. We interview and hire great teachers. And then the pool becomes very shallow in June because, as others have noted, there is a teacher shortage. (Why would anyone want to go into it these days with all the teacher bashing here and elsewhere?)
Beginning at the third week in July, we HAVE to submit class size reports where we report the number students in each class. We include the students currently registered and also share the numbers of those registrations that are pending (they’ve started the registration process, but haven’t been entered into SIS.) HR, Finance and the assistant superintendents go over these reports school by school, class by class. At the end of the meeting, the school stays the same, loses a staffing position or gains. Teachers that are de-staffed can then be picked up by a school that gained. They interview with the principal, and if it’s a match, the transfer is made.
This process happens every 2 weeks. My inbox has been flooded with requests from colleagues looking for teachers: “Anyone lose an amazing 6th grade teacher? We just gained one at yesterday’s staffing. Send them my way.” Rinse and repeat.

Kids are enrolling everyday. Numbers are fluctuating. Grade levels that hit 29/30 are given a teacher position. The last staffing meeting was 2 days ago and will continue after school begins. There are no good candidates left unless by some miracle, a spouse of an amazing teacher gets transferred to the area. The only other alternative is to hire two instructional assstants in place of one teacher. Those assistants can then support those large classes full-time.

It is rough, and no principal or teaching staff is sitting around twiddling their thumbs about this.

No, I agree it is very strategic. This is Vienna and it's not K or 1st grade. That 2nd grade was close to 30/31 for all classroom all summer. It isn't an area where a bunch of parents sign up for 2nd grade the week before. That principal likely did that hoping to get another teacher for the entire school rather than making another grade larger. They chose to put the 2nd graders in potential large class sizes knowing this was their best way to get additional staff. I know how it works now. And then what happens is they run out of eligible teachers or ones that they like anyway. This school has no assistants yet and they were supposed to get assistants when those classes hit 27! All classes are over the state limit. By both state and county law, this principal and FCPS must rectify the situation that yes the principal created by setting up that grade in hopes of either get another teacher or be overcrowded with assistants. It is against the law and requires some form of remediation. Not a guideline. What do you not understand?

[Anonymous]

The principal can ask for more, but she is not going to get it unless she can prove a need with numbers.
Is there space for another teacher?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The principal can ask for more, but she is not going to get it unless she can prove a need with numbers.
Is there space for another teacher?

It also sounds like there isn’t necessarily a teacher to give at this time of year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The principal can ask for more, but she is not going to get it unless she can prove a need with numbers.
Is there space for another teacher?

It also sounds like there isn’t necessarily a teacher to give at this time of year.

This is where the principal’s judgment comes into play. I’ve seen a principal decide it was better to staff a long term sub in a new class rather than have huge one.

[Anonymous]

FCPS approved budget p 380 on the pdf [easy to enter] https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/pdf/FY-2019-Approved-Budget.pdf
State:
"Licensed instructional personnel are to be assigned in such a way as to result in a divisionwide ratio of pupils in average daily membership (ADM) to full-time equivalent (FTE) teaching positions in grades K-6 which is not greater than the following (excluding special education teachers, principals, assistant principals, counselors, and librarians): 24:1 in kindergarten with no class larger than 29. (If ADM in any kindergarten class exceeds 24, a full-time teacher's aide must be assigned), 24:1 in grades 1-3 with no class larger than 30 students, 25:1 in grades 4-6 with no class larger than 35 students, 24:1 in English classes in grades 6-12."

A very common violation is the English class in grades 6-12. If there are 4 grade level classrooms at 33 and 20 pullouts hat leaves more than 24. Eh- ADM includes schools with reduced ratios.