Can we talk about the APS CPS( 5/7 work session)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And it would involve tearing down an elementary school which adds huge costs and logistics in finding land and money to build a replacement.

It sounds like Kanninen supports building underground parking with a field on top where the current parking lot is, and adding the performing arts space. No pool and no second field by tearing down Henry. That seems reasonable. And if the neighborhood really refuses any neighborhood seats, then maybe just make it a second HB. The amenities would be more than comparable at that point.

This makes sense to me. H-B number two. Smaller school with fewer amenities. If we can't build the full thing here, and I really think we cannot because we just don't have the money without sacrificing everything else, then it can't be a neighborhood school. I refuse to be pulled into a school by force that does not have equivalent opportunities for extra curricular activities and sports. My kid may choose it anyway, but I would not be cool with it not being a choice. I think this is a reasonable compromise and would fill for sure without being neighborhood. And with underground parking, a lot of the neighborhood's complaints are addressed.

NP here -- I think you both are exactly right! I don't want a 4th high school that is not comparable to the other 3 unless it's a choice program. HB always fills, so why not make the 4th high school a second HB? No need for a pool or football field then, and it would allow more access to this coveted program. This seems so obvious to me.

But would it fill it parents didn't see it as the "real" HB? Do you make the current HB principal and half the teachers split off to run it?

Any choice program is going to have the same problem filling in the early years that Arl Tech has -- most APS parents aren't going to risk doing something different that doesn't have a proven track record of getting their kids into the colleges they think they should go to. So, you have to appeal to enough people to get through the first 4-5 years until you have some good college placement results.

And, APS isn't helping itself by communicating/planning so poorly. I've heard people say AT is a bust because it's not meeting its enrollment projections. That's only because the district kept moving the projections. AT was originally planned to be about 50 in year 1, 100 for each of the next two years, and then 200. They had about 50 the first year, about 100 the 2nd, and were originally targeting 100 for next year's freshman class. Then district says, no, make that 200, no, 100, no 150. They have ended up at about 130. Which, going by the original plan of 100 is, they are doing great, a bit ahead of target. But in the context of the constantly switching targets, could also make the story, AT sucks, they didn't hit 200 goal. Which shouldn't have been -- and wasn't -- the goal in the first place. Choice programs take time to build, positive word-of-mouth, desirable facilities. The CC definitely doesn't hit the facilities piece (although the CTE spaces are great). But, they are renovating this summer for a big face-lift which may help boost enrollment for the actually planned 200 target for the next year. Of course, throughout the year, APS is likely to say, no the target is 300, make that 350, or maybe 150, whatever.

Yes, HB is a proven. And yes, reassign some of the current staff so they can recreate it (not all, but some). They have the model, it can be replicated especially with some senior staff from HB being pulled in to get it off the ground. That or make all the HS open enrollment and let people pick what HS matches their students' needs/wants. It's clear that a full 4th HS is not going to be possible, now or ever, at this site, unless the County makes it rain (they won't).

Set it up so there's HB campus 1 and HB campus 2. A single lottery and you get assigned to a campus randomly. It will fill.

No, thank you. Can't take any more kids here. Go back and bug the Kenmore folks.

Too late, no backsies.

You don't get to dictate how the land that you don't own is used any more than the neighborhoods around Kenmore. We cannot build a school that is appropriate for neighborhood seats unless they divert all the money from everything else, including from the County budget. It isn't going to happen. And it shouldn't. This isn't the last school we need to build with the CIP money. Reality sucks, but there it is. HB-2 is a good compromise.

Um, nope. APS won't be able to get the use permits it needs to build. That many kids on such a small plot? Can't pass design/security/environment/transportation, etc.

Put HB-2 in vacant office space. Much cheaper than building a 100 million dollar office building for HB-2 and plenty of vacant office space in the county.

If this number of students can't fit on the site because of use permits, then what are we even talking about putting any HS there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And it would involve tearing down an elementary school which adds huge costs and logistics in finding land and money to build a replacement.

It sounds like Kanninen supports building underground parking with a field on top where the current parking lot is, and adding the performing arts space. No pool and no second field by tearing down Henry. That seems reasonable. And if the neighborhood really refuses any neighborhood seats, then maybe just make it a second HB. The amenities would be more than comparable at that point.

This makes sense to me. H-B number two. Smaller school with fewer amenities. If we can't build the full thing here, and I really think we cannot because we just don't have the money without sacrificing everything else, then it can't be a neighborhood school. I refuse to be pulled into a school by force that does not have equivalent opportunities for extra curricular activities and sports. My kid may choose it anyway, but I would not be cool with it not being a choice. I think this is a reasonable compromise and would fill for sure without being neighborhood. And with underground parking, a lot of the neighborhood's complaints are addressed.

NP here -- I think you both are exactly right! I don't want a 4th high school that is not comparable to the other 3 unless it's a choice program. HB always fills, so why not make the 4th high school a second HB? No need for a pool or football field then, and it would allow more access to this coveted program. This seems so obvious to me.

But would it fill it parents didn't see it as the "real" HB? Do you make the current HB principal and half the teachers split off to run it?

Any choice program is going to have the same problem filling in the early years that Arl Tech has -- most APS parents aren't going to risk doing something different that doesn't have a proven track record of getting their kids into the colleges they think they should go to. So, you have to appeal to enough people to get through the first 4-5 years until you have some good college placement results.

And, APS isn't helping itself by communicating/planning so poorly. I've heard people say AT is a bust because it's not meeting its enrollment projections. That's only because the district kept moving the projections. AT was originally planned to be about 50 in year 1, 100 for each of the next two years, and then 200. They had about 50 the first year, about 100 the 2nd, and were originally targeting 100 for next year's freshman class. Then district says, no, make that 200, no, 100, no 150. They have ended up at about 130. Which, going by the original plan of 100 is, they are doing great, a bit ahead of target. But in the context of the constantly switching targets, could also make the story, AT sucks, they didn't hit 200 goal. Which shouldn't have been -- and wasn't -- the goal in the first place. Choice programs take time to build, positive word-of-mouth, desirable facilities. The CC definitely doesn't hit the facilities piece (although the CTE spaces are great). But, they are renovating this summer for a big face-lift which may help boost enrollment for the actually planned 200 target for the next year. Of course, throughout the year, APS is likely to say, no the target is 300, make that 350, or maybe 150, whatever.

Yes, HB is a proven. And yes, reassign some of the current staff so they can recreate it (not all, but some). They have the model, it can be replicated especially with some senior staff from HB being pulled in to get it off the ground. That or make all the HS open enrollment and let people pick what HS matches their students' needs/wants. It's clear that a full 4th HS is not going to be possible, now or ever, at this site, unless the County makes it rain (they won't).

Set it up so there's HB campus 1 and HB campus 2. A single lottery and you get assigned to a campus randomly. It will fill.

No, thank you. Can't take any more kids here. Go back and bug the Kenmore folks.

Too late, no backsies.

You don't get to dictate how the land that you don't own is used any more than the neighborhoods around Kenmore. We cannot build a school that is appropriate for neighborhood seats unless they divert all the money from everything else, including from the County budget. It isn't going to happen. And it shouldn't. This isn't the last school we need to build with the CIP money. Reality sucks, but there it is. HB-2 is a good compromise.

Um, nope. APS won't be able to get the use permits it needs to build. That many kids on such a small plot? Can't pass design/security/environment/transportation, etc.

Put HB-2 in vacant office space. Much cheaper than building a 100 million dollar office building for HB-2 and plenty of vacant office space in the county.

If this number of students can't fit on the site because of use permits, then what are we even talking about putting any HS there?

Thank you. My point exactly: Another high school at the CC site is incompatible with the elementary school and Arlington Community High School on the same piece of land. And because there is no money to move either of those schools, APS will have to look elsewhere for land. APS cannot squeeze 3500+ students on that 12 acres and call it a day.

Let's stop talking about pie in the sky 4th high school and start talking about putting kids in office buildings and trailers because that's what we can afford.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And it would involve tearing down an elementary school which adds huge costs and logistics in finding land and money to build a replacement.

It sounds like Kanninen supports building underground parking with a field on top where the current parking lot is, and adding the performing arts space. No pool and no second field by tearing down Henry. That seems reasonable. And if the neighborhood really refuses any neighborhood seats, then maybe just make it a second HB. The amenities would be more than comparable at that point.

This makes sense to me. H-B number two. Smaller school with fewer amenities. If we can't build the full thing here, and I really think we cannot because we just don't have the money without sacrificing everything else, then it can't be a neighborhood school. I refuse to be pulled into a school by force that does not have equivalent opportunities for extra curricular activities and sports. My kid may choose it anyway, but I would not be cool with it not being a choice. I think this is a reasonable compromise and would fill for sure without being neighborhood. And with underground parking, a lot of the neighborhood's complaints are addressed.

NP here -- I think you both are exactly right! I don't want a 4th high school that is not comparable to the other 3 unless it's a choice program. HB always fills, so why not make the 4th high school a second HB? No need for a pool or football field then, and it would allow more access to this coveted program. This seems so obvious to me.

But would it fill it parents didn't see it as the "real" HB? Do you make the current HB principal and half the teachers split off to run it?

Any choice program is going to have the same problem filling in the early years that Arl Tech has -- most APS parents aren't going to risk doing something different that doesn't have a proven track record of getting their kids into the colleges they think they should go to. So, you have to appeal to enough people to get through the first 4-5 years until you have some good college placement results.

And, APS isn't helping itself by communicating/planning so poorly. I've heard people say AT is a bust because it's not meeting its enrollment projections. That's only because the district kept moving the projections. AT was originally planned to be about 50 in year 1, 100 for each of the next two years, and then 200. They had about 50 the first year, about 100 the 2nd, and were originally targeting 100 for next year's freshman class. Then district says, no, make that 200, no, 100, no 150. They have ended up at about 130. Which, going by the original plan of 100 is, they are doing great, a bit ahead of target. But in the context of the constantly switching targets, could also make the story, AT sucks, they didn't hit 200 goal. Which shouldn't have been -- and wasn't -- the goal in the first place. Choice programs take time to build, positive word-of-mouth, desirable facilities. The CC definitely doesn't hit the facilities piece (although the CTE spaces are great). But, they are renovating this summer for a big face-lift which may help boost enrollment for the actually planned 200 target for the next year. Of course, throughout the year, APS is likely to say, no the target is 300, make that 350, or maybe 150, whatever.

Yes, HB is a proven. And yes, reassign some of the current staff so they can recreate it (not all, but some). They have the model, it can be replicated especially with some senior staff from HB being pulled in to get it off the ground. That or make all the HS open enrollment and let people pick what HS matches their students' needs/wants. It's clear that a full 4th HS is not going to be possible, now or ever, at this site, unless the County makes it rain (they won't).

Set it up so there's HB campus 1 and HB campus 2. A single lottery and you get assigned to a campus randomly. It will fill.

No, thank you. Can't take any more kids here. Go back and bug the Kenmore folks.

Too late, no backsies.

You don't get to dictate how the land that you don't own is used any more than the neighborhoods around Kenmore. We cannot build a school that is appropriate for neighborhood seats unless they divert all the money from everything else, including from the County budget. It isn't going to happen. And it shouldn't. This isn't the last school we need to build with the CIP money. Reality sucks, but there it is. HB-2 is a good compromise.

HB-2 is a moronic idea, since HB-1 is only just being built- TOO SMALL, again. And I assume, HB-2 would also be around 700 students- to actually be the same, since the small size was quintessential according to all who approved this project. So that's perhaps 400 high school students. But what Arlington needs is a SCHOOL FOR OVER 3000 students!!!!

HB-2 won't do sh&^t for the capacity crisis.

It's pretty clear you're one (rather angry) person who wants a 4th comprehensive high school or nothing. It's not happening in this CIP because we can't afford it. Those who watched the work session know we are talking about 1850 students plus ACHS in Fenwick (but 300 of the 1850 won't use the fields or other amenities because they're just there for CTE). We aren't talking about 3000 or 4000 students and the campus is 8 acres. Plenty big for what's under discussion.

No new MS seats, just 800 HS seats. HB doesn't require the MS. Or if you prefer, move the middle schoolers to the CC HB campus and the Wilson campus can be all HS to make the HS portions an equivalent size. The waitlist is a mile long. It will fill. I'd encourage my kids to apply.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And it would involve tearing down an elementary school which adds huge costs and logistics in finding land and money to build a replacement.

It sounds like Kanninen supports building underground parking with a field on top where the current parking lot is, and adding the performing arts space. No pool and no second field by tearing down Henry. That seems reasonable. And if the neighborhood really refuses any neighborhood seats, then maybe just make it a second HB. The amenities would be more than comparable at that point.

This makes sense to me. H-B number two. Smaller school with fewer amenities. If we can't build the full thing here, and I really think we cannot because we just don't have the money without sacrificing everything else, then it can't be a neighborhood school. I refuse to be pulled into a school by force that does not have equivalent opportunities for extra curricular activities and sports. My kid may choose it anyway, but I would not be cool with it not being a choice. I think this is a reasonable compromise and would fill for sure without being neighborhood. And with underground parking, a lot of the neighborhood's complaints are addressed.

NP here -- I think you both are exactly right! I don't want a 4th high school that is not comparable to the other 3 unless it's a choice program. HB always fills, so why not make the 4th high school a second HB? No need for a pool or football field then, and it would allow more access to this coveted program. This seems so obvious to me.

But would it fill it parents didn't see it as the "real" HB? Do you make the current HB principal and half the teachers split off to run it?

Any choice program is going to have the same problem filling in the early years that Arl Tech has -- most APS parents aren't going to risk doing something different that doesn't have a proven track record of getting their kids into the colleges they think they should go to. So, you have to appeal to enough people to get through the first 4-5 years until you have some good college placement results.

And, APS isn't helping itself by communicating/planning so poorly. I've heard people say AT is a bust because it's not meeting its enrollment projections. That's only because the district kept moving the projections. AT was originally planned to be about 50 in year 1, 100 for each of the next two years, and then 200. They had about 50 the first year, about 100 the 2nd, and were originally targeting 100 for next year's freshman class. Then district says, no, make that 200, no, 100, no 150. They have ended up at about 130. Which, going by the original plan of 100 is, they are doing great, a bit ahead of target. But in the context of the constantly switching targets, could also make the story, AT sucks, they didn't hit 200 goal. Which shouldn't have been -- and wasn't -- the goal in the first place. Choice programs take time to build, positive word-of-mouth, desirable facilities. The CC definitely doesn't hit the facilities piece (although the CTE spaces are great). But, they are renovating this summer for a big face-lift which may help boost enrollment for the actually planned 200 target for the next year. Of course, throughout the year, APS is likely to say, no the target is 300, make that 350, or maybe 150, whatever.

Yes, HB is a proven. And yes, reassign some of the current staff so they can recreate it (not all, but some). They have the model, it can be replicated especially with some senior staff from HB being pulled in to get it off the ground. That or make all the HS open enrollment and let people pick what HS matches their students' needs/wants. It's clear that a full 4th HS is not going to be possible, now or ever, at this site, unless the County makes it rain (they won't).

Set it up so there's HB campus 1 and HB campus 2. A single lottery and you get assigned to a campus randomly. It will fill.

Well, yeah, it will fill... with like 800 high school students total... while Murphy says we need 3000 seats.
I mean, fine, put HB-2 right in with HB-1, I hope they are building extra rooms, and increase that program ON ITS $ 1 million campus.

But it's not enough for the thousands of HS seats needeed. just a drop of water...

But we don't just need HS seats, and they are not projecting a 3,000 seat deficit within the next 10 years. The CIP includes 690 seats at the Ed center, 250 at Arl Tech, and 800 at the Career Center. There is no additional deficit projected above those seats. Hopefully during the next 10 years, they are actively working on getting the Kenmore site squared away and then can pass a bond to build a new HS there after 2028.

We're short seats at every level. We can't just build a HS, while demolishing an elementary school that we have nowhere to relocate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And it would involve tearing down an elementary school which adds huge costs and logistics in finding land and money to build a replacement.

It sounds like Kanninen supports building underground parking with a field on top where the current parking lot is, and adding the performing arts space. No pool and no second field by tearing down Henry. That seems reasonable. And if the neighborhood really refuses any neighborhood seats, then maybe just make it a second HB. The amenities would be more than comparable at that point.

This makes sense to me. H-B number two. Smaller school with fewer amenities. If we can't build the full thing here, and I really think we cannot because we just don't have the money without sacrificing everything else, then it can't be a neighborhood school. I refuse to be pulled into a school by force that does not have equivalent opportunities for extra curricular activities and sports. My kid may choose it anyway, but I would not be cool with it not being a choice. I think this is a reasonable compromise and would fill for sure without being neighborhood. And with underground parking, a lot of the neighborhood's complaints are addressed.

NP here -- I think you both are exactly right! I don't want a 4th high school that is not comparable to the other 3 unless it's a choice program. HB always fills, so why not make the 4th high school a second HB? No need for a pool or football field then, and it would allow more access to this coveted program. This seems so obvious to me.

But would it fill it parents didn't see it as the "real" HB? Do you make the current HB principal and half the teachers split off to run it?

Any choice program is going to have the same problem filling in the early years that Arl Tech has -- most APS parents aren't going to risk doing something different that doesn't have a proven track record of getting their kids into the colleges they think they should go to. So, you have to appeal to enough people to get through the first 4-5 years until you have some good college placement results.

And, APS isn't helping itself by communicating/planning so poorly. I've heard people say AT is a bust because it's not meeting its enrollment projections. That's only because the district kept moving the projections. AT was originally planned to be about 50 in year 1, 100 for each of the next two years, and then 200. They had about 50 the first year, about 100 the 2nd, and were originally targeting 100 for next year's freshman class. Then district says, no, make that 200, no, 100, no 150. They have ended up at about 130. Which, going by the original plan of 100 is, they are doing great, a bit ahead of target. But in the context of the constantly switching targets, could also make the story, AT sucks, they didn't hit 200 goal. Which shouldn't have been -- and wasn't -- the goal in the first place. Choice programs take time to build, positive word-of-mouth, desirable facilities. The CC definitely doesn't hit the facilities piece (although the CTE spaces are great). But, they are renovating this summer for a big face-lift which may help boost enrollment for the actually planned 200 target for the next year. Of course, throughout the year, APS is likely to say, no the target is 300, make that 350, or maybe 150, whatever.

Yes, HB is a proven. And yes, reassign some of the current staff so they can recreate it (not all, but some). They have the model, it can be replicated especially with some senior staff from HB being pulled in to get it off the ground. That or make all the HS open enrollment and let people pick what HS matches their students' needs/wants. It's clear that a full 4th HS is not going to be possible, now or ever, at this site, unless the County makes it rain (they won't).

Set it up so there's HB campus 1 and HB campus 2. A single lottery and you get assigned to a campus randomly. It will fill.

Well, yeah, it will fill... with like 800 high school students total... while Murphy says we need 3000 seats.
I mean, fine, put HB-2 right in with HB-1, I hope they are building extra rooms, and increase that program ON ITS $ 1 million campus.

But it's not enough for the thousands of HS seats needeed. just a drop of water...

But we don't just need HS seats, and they are not projecting a 3,000 seat deficit within the next 10 years. The CIP includes 690 seats at the Ed center, 250 at Arl Tech, and 800 at the Career Center. There is no additional deficit projected above those seats. Hopefully during the next 10 years, they are actively working on getting the Kenmore site squared away and then can pass a bond to build a new HS there after 2028.

We're short seats at every level. We can't just build a HS, while demolishing an elementary school that we have nowhere to relocate.

NP. Where are you getting your numbers? There were 6936 high school aged kids in Sept. 2017. APS expects that number to grow 37% by 2026, so approximately 2500 more high school students in 2026 to about 9500. The new seats (even assuming they get built) will not cover this amount, although I would argue that the seats should just go in trailers. I assume this is a typo, but it's 600 students at Ed. Center, not 690.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And it would involve tearing down an elementary school which adds huge costs and logistics in finding land and money to build a replacement.

It sounds like Kanninen supports building underground parking with a field on top where the current parking lot is, and adding the performing arts space. No pool and no second field by tearing down Henry. That seems reasonable. And if the neighborhood really refuses any neighborhood seats, then maybe just make it a second HB. The amenities would be more than comparable at that point.

This makes sense to me. H-B number two. Smaller school with fewer amenities. If we can't build the full thing here, and I really think we cannot because we just don't have the money without sacrificing everything else, then it can't be a neighborhood school. I refuse to be pulled into a school by force that does not have equivalent opportunities for extra curricular activities and sports. My kid may choose it anyway, but I would not be cool with it not being a choice. I think this is a reasonable compromise and would fill for sure without being neighborhood. And with underground parking, a lot of the neighborhood's complaints are addressed.

NP here -- I think you both are exactly right! I don't want a 4th high school that is not comparable to the other 3 unless it's a choice program. HB always fills, so why not make the 4th high school a second HB? No need for a pool or football field then, and it would allow more access to this coveted program. This seems so obvious to me.

But would it fill it parents didn't see it as the "real" HB? Do you make the current HB principal and half the teachers split off to run it?

Any choice program is going to have the same problem filling in the early years that Arl Tech has -- most APS parents aren't going to risk doing something different that doesn't have a proven track record of getting their kids into the colleges they think they should go to. So, you have to appeal to enough people to get through the first 4-5 years until you have some good college placement results.

And, APS isn't helping itself by communicating/planning so poorly. I've heard people say AT is a bust because it's not meeting its enrollment projections. That's only because the district kept moving the projections. AT was originally planned to be about 50 in year 1, 100 for each of the next two years, and then 200. They had about 50 the first year, about 100 the 2nd, and were originally targeting 100 for next year's freshman class. Then district says, no, make that 200, no, 100, no 150. They have ended up at about 130. Which, going by the original plan of 100 is, they are doing great, a bit ahead of target. But in the context of the constantly switching targets, could also make the story, AT sucks, they didn't hit 200 goal. Which shouldn't have been -- and wasn't -- the goal in the first place. Choice programs take time to build, positive word-of-mouth, desirable facilities. The CC definitely doesn't hit the facilities piece (although the CTE spaces are great). But, they are renovating this summer for a big face-lift which may help boost enrollment for the actually planned 200 target for the next year. Of course, throughout the year, APS is likely to say, no the target is 300, make that 350, or maybe 150, whatever.

Yes, HB is a proven. And yes, reassign some of the current staff so they can recreate it (not all, but some). They have the model, it can be replicated especially with some senior staff from HB being pulled in to get it off the ground. That or make all the HS open enrollment and let people pick what HS matches their students' needs/wants. It's clear that a full 4th HS is not going to be possible, now or ever, at this site, unless the County makes it rain (they won't).

Set it up so there's HB campus 1 and HB campus 2. A single lottery and you get assigned to a campus randomly. It will fill.

No, thank you. Can't take any more kids here. Go back and bug the Kenmore folks.

Too late, no backsies.

You don't get to dictate how the land that you don't own is used any more than the neighborhoods around Kenmore. We cannot build a school that is appropriate for neighborhood seats unless they divert all the money from everything else, including from the County budget. It isn't going to happen. And it shouldn't. This isn't the last school we need to build with the CIP money. Reality sucks, but there it is. HB-2 is a good compromise.

HB-2 is a moronic idea, since HB-1 is only just being built- TOO SMALL, again. And I assume, HB-2 would also be around 700 students- to actually be the same, since the small size was quintessential according to all who approved this project. So that's perhaps 400 high school students. But what Arlington needs is a SCHOOL FOR OVER 3000 students!!!!

HB-2 won't do sh&^t for the capacity crisis.

It's pretty clear you're one (rather angry) person who wants a 4th comprehensive high school or nothing. It's not happening in this CIP because we can't afford it. Those who watched the work session know we are talking about 1850 students plus ACHS in Fenwick (but 300 of the 1850 won't use the fields or other amenities because they're just there for CTE). We aren't talking about 3000 or 4000 students and the campus is 8 acres. Plenty big for what's under discussion.

No new MS seats, just 800 HS seats. HB doesn't require the MS. Or if you prefer, move the middle schoolers to the CC HB campus and the Wilson campus can be all HS to make the HS portions an equivalent size. The waitlist is a mile long. It will fill. I'd encourage my kids to apply.

Sorry, I’m just really frustrated by APS currently.

Well, if they really do not want to do it (build a full fourth high school, which I support, because Arlington needs it), of your two choices; if those were the only choices, #2; separating the existing HB middle school onto a different campus (CC?) and making one larger HB campus (the new Wilson building) just for high school seats, is something to further think about. But I truly believe, it will not yield enough seats, and turn W-L and Wakefield into 3000 students-in-trailers high schools. The numbers for the high school seat deficit are too high to be remedied by this.
Essentially the county needs to step up for all of these projects.
Arlington’s revenue is tied to its schools.

[Anonymous]

Eventually the capacity issues are going to undermine property values across much of Arlington. Arlington sells itself as having great schools, but very crowded schools across the board will hurt the district’s reputation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Eventually the capacity issues are going to undermine property values across much of Arlington. Arlington sells itself as having great schools, but very crowded schools across the board will hurt the district’s reputation.

The county board's opinion is that only 15% of Arlington residents have school-aged children, so their needs are not as important and don't have a meaningful impact on the county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eventually the capacity issues are going to undermine property values across much of Arlington. Arlington sells itself as having great schools, but very crowded schools across the board will hurt the district’s reputation.

The county board's opinion is that only 15% of Arlington residents have school-aged children, so their needs are not as important and don't have a meaningful impact on the county.

Maybe the county needs to look at its own numbers again, because this is not correct; 18% of the county’s population are children, according to the last census report, and the numbers have only been rising since then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eventually the capacity issues are going to undermine property values across much of Arlington. Arlington sells itself as having great schools, but very crowded schools across the board will hurt the district’s reputation.

The county board's opinion is that only 15% of Arlington residents have school-aged children, so their needs are not as important and don't have a meaningful impact on the county.

Maybe the county needs to look at its own numbers again, because this is not correct; 18% of the county’s population are children, according to the last census report, and the numbers have only been rising since then.

I said "have school-aged children" not "are children." Children don't vote.

[Anonymous]

Does anyone really think reed will be delayed? I’m wondering the elementary school
Changes will even really happen if that’s the case!

[Anonymous]

I think it could. They have a short term seat surplus in the NW anyway. They could probably make due with trailers and postpone for 2-3 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it could. They have a short term seat surplus in the NW anyway. They could probably make due with trailers and postpone for 2-3 years.

NW doesn’t have a seat surplus, it currently has a seat deficit. And if they postpone Reed, it wouldn’t be for 2-3 years, we’re talking more like 8-10.

[Anonymous]

I don't think Reed will get delayed. Too much money already sunk into that project. Kanninen mentioned pushing back the 300 seat MS addition to allow for funds for one field/underground parking and the performing arts space at the CC HS.

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Anonymous wrote:And it would involve tearing down an elementary school which adds huge costs and logistics in finding land and money to build a replacement.

It sounds like Kanninen supports building underground parking with a field on top where the current parking lot is, and adding the performing arts space. No pool and no second field by tearing down Henry. That seems reasonable. And if the neighborhood really refuses any neighborhood seats, then maybe just make it a second HB. The amenities would be more than comparable at that point.

This makes sense to me. H-B number two. Smaller school with fewer amenities. If we can't build the full thing here, and I really think we cannot because we just don't have the money without sacrificing everything else, then it can't be a neighborhood school. I refuse to be pulled into a school by force that does not have equivalent opportunities for extra curricular activities and sports. My kid may choose it anyway, but I would not be cool with it not being a choice. I think this is a reasonable compromise and would fill for sure without being neighborhood. And with underground parking, a lot of the neighborhood's complaints are addressed.

NP here -- I think you both are exactly right! I don't want a 4th high school that is not comparable to the other 3 unless it's a choice program. HB always fills, so why not make the 4th high school a second HB? No need for a pool or football field then, and it would allow more access to this coveted program. This seems so obvious to me.

But would it fill it parents didn't see it as the "real" HB? Do you make the current HB principal and half the teachers split off to run it?

Any choice program is going to have the same problem filling in the early years that Arl Tech has -- most APS parents aren't going to risk doing something different that doesn't have a proven track record of getting their kids into the colleges they think they should go to. So, you have to appeal to enough people to get through the first 4-5 years until you have some good college placement results.

And, APS isn't helping itself by communicating/planning so poorly. I've heard people say AT is a bust because it's not meeting its enrollment projections. That's only because the district kept moving the projections. AT was originally planned to be about 50 in year 1, 100 for each of the next two years, and then 200. They had about 50 the first year, about 100 the 2nd, and were originally targeting 100 for next year's freshman class. Then district says, no, make that 200, no, 100, no 150. They have ended up at about 130. Which, going by the original plan of 100 is, they are doing great, a bit ahead of target. But in the context of the constantly switching targets, could also make the story, AT sucks, they didn't hit 200 goal. Which shouldn't have been -- and wasn't -- the goal in the first place. Choice programs take time to build, positive word-of-mouth, desirable facilities. The CC definitely doesn't hit the facilities piece (although the CTE spaces are great). But, they are renovating this summer for a big face-lift which may help boost enrollment for the actually planned 200 target for the next year. Of course, throughout the year, APS is likely to say, no the target is 300, make that 350, or maybe 150, whatever.

Yes, HB is a proven. And yes, reassign some of the current staff so they can recreate it (not all, but some). They have the model, it can be replicated especially with some senior staff from HB being pulled in to get it off the ground. That or make all the HS open enrollment and let people pick what HS matches their students' needs/wants. It's clear that a full 4th HS is not going to be possible, now or ever, at this site, unless the County makes it rain (they won't).

Set it up so there's HB campus 1 and HB campus 2. A single lottery and you get assigned to a campus randomly. It will fill.

Well, yeah, it will fill... with like 800 high school students total... while Murphy says we need 3000 seats.
I mean, fine, put HB-2 right in with HB-1, I hope they are building extra rooms, and increase that program ON ITS $ 1 million campus.

But it's not enough for the thousands of HS seats needeed. just a drop of water...

But we don't just need HS seats, and they are not projecting a 3,000 seat deficit within the next 10 years. The CIP includes 690 seats at the Ed center, 250 at Arl Tech, and 800 at the Career Center. There is no additional deficit projected above those seats. Hopefully during the next 10 years, they are actively working on getting the Kenmore site squared away and then can pass a bond to build a new HS there after 2028.

We're short seats at every level. We can't just build a HS, while demolishing an elementary school that we have nowhere to relocate.

NP. Where are you getting your numbers? There were 6936 high school aged kids in Sept. 2017. APS expects that number to grow 37% by 2026, so approximately 2500 more high school students in 2026 to about 9500. The new seats (even assuming they get built) will not cover this amount, although I would argue that the seats should just go in trailers. I assume this is a typo, but it's 600 students at Ed. Center, not 690.

From their presentation at the Work Session (their numbers, which I cannot independently verify), if they build 600 seats at the Ed Center, add 250 to Arl Tech, and then add 800 of some nature at the Career Center, there's a deficit of just 106 seats in 2028. That's not 3,000. There worst years look like the two years before the CC seats come online that would be a strain, where enrollment exceeds capacity by 600 some odd seats. Which is bad, but not a 3,000 seat deficit bad.

Page 15 here: https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/FY-2019-28-CIP-Work-Session-Presentation-May-7-2018.pdf. That gets us to 2028. During these 10 years, hopefully they are figuring out how to build a full 4th HS in the next CIP.