Can we talk about the APS CPS( 5/7 work session)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So wait--they're saying if they build the HS, they can't build Reed?

yes- or anything else. They can't build Reed, they can't repair the HVAC at Gunston, they can't replace the seats lost from tearing down Henry, they can't do 300 seat MS addition, they can't build the other elementary school they need.

WTF? How did they get so far into the process without knowing this?

I think APS knew this. It's the community that needs to understand the trade-offs that would have to be made in order to make a full 4th HS at the CC site happen. I think they can do some of the things they hoped at the CC site, but not all of the things. And that's why it should NOT be a neighborhood school.

But if they knew, why did they let it get this far without raising the flag?

DP. I suspect they've been getting a lot of heat from people who are unhappy with the previous CIP plans for the Career Center site, who wanted more built there faster. The SB may be doing this to show them the cost of making that happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if they dismantle the Stratford program and return those students to their neighborhood schools, does that mean they can free up more seats at HB number 1?

Oh for petesake, you're not really advocating for throwing students with special needs under the bus to get more seats at HB, are you?

No, I am not advocating this. But apparently it's happening. So, will there be more available seats at HB now?

Source for this? I know someone on AEM keeps saying this, but everything else I've seen or heard is talking about temporarily relocating the program while the Stratford building is under construction but before the Wilson site is complete.

[Anonymous]

This is because they can see there aren’t enough takers for arl tech. Their BS ideas of crappy underserved HS seats isn’t going to work. Which should have been obvious.
Transportation/ roads/ infrastructure
Emergency services
Schools

EVERYTHING ELSE IS A WANT.

They’ve screwed up a perfectly good county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if they dismantle the Stratford program and return those students to their neighborhood schools, does that mean they can free up more seats at HB number 1?

Oh for petesake, you're not really advocating for throwing students with special needs under the bus to get more seats at HB, are you?

No, I am not advocating this. But apparently it's happening. So, will there be more available seats at HB now?

Source for this? I know someone on AEM keeps saying this, but everything else I've seen or heard is talking about temporarily relocating the program while the Stratford building is under construction but before the Wilson site is complete.

The “dismantle” language is directly from the mouth of the “I’ll cut a b!tch” lady on AEM. No one else has any idea what she’s talking about. She seemed to verify that she was talking about the temporary move, but it’s hard to tell because she’s mostly just screaming at people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And it would involve tearing down an elementary school which adds huge costs and logistics in finding land and money to build a replacement.

It sounds like Kanninen supports building underground parking with a field on top where the current parking lot is, and adding the performing arts space. No pool and no second field by tearing down Henry. That seems reasonable. And if the neighborhood really refuses any neighborhood seats, then maybe just make it a second HB. The amenities would be more than comparable at that point.

This makes sense to me. H-B number two. Smaller school with fewer amenities. If we can't build the full thing here, and I really think we cannot because we just don't have the money without sacrificing everything else, then it can't be a neighborhood school. I refuse to be pulled into a school by force that does not have equivalent opportunities for extra curricular activities and sports. My kid may choose it anyway, but I would not be cool with it not being a choice. I think this is a reasonable compromise and would fill for sure without being neighborhood. And with underground parking, a lot of the neighborhood's complaints are addressed.

NP here -- I think you both are exactly right! I don't want a 4th high school that is not comparable to the other 3 unless it's a choice program. HB always fills, so why not make the 4th high school a second HB? No need for a pool or football field then, and it would allow more access to this coveted program. This seems so obvious to me.

But would it fill it parents didn't see it as the "real" HB? Do you make the current HB principal and half the teachers split off to run it?

Any choice program is going to have the same problem filling in the early years that Arl Tech has -- most APS parents aren't going to risk doing something different that doesn't have a proven track record of getting their kids into the colleges they think they should go to. So, you have to appeal to enough people to get through the first 4-5 years until you have some good college placement results.

And, APS isn't helping itself by communicating/planning so poorly. I've heard people say AT is a bust because it's not meeting its enrollment projections. That's only because the district kept moving the projections. AT was originally planned to be about 50 in year 1, 100 for each of the next two years, and then 200. They had about 50 the first year, about 100 the 2nd, and were originally targeting 100 for next year's freshman class. Then district says, no, make that 200, no, 100, no 150. They have ended up at about 130. Which, going by the original plan of 100 is, they are doing great, a bit ahead of target. But in the context of the constantly switching targets, could also make the story, AT sucks, they didn't hit 200 goal. Which shouldn't have been -- and wasn't -- the goal in the first place. Choice programs take time to build, positive word-of-mouth, desirable facilities. The CC definitely doesn't hit the facilities piece (although the CTE spaces are great). But, they are renovating this summer for a big face-lift which may help boost enrollment for the actually planned 200 target for the next year. Of course, throughout the year, APS is likely to say, no the target is 300, make that 350, or maybe 150, whatever.

Yes, HB is a proven. And yes, reassign some of the current staff so they can recreate it (not all, but some). They have the model, it can be replicated especially with some senior staff from HB being pulled in to get it off the ground. That or make all the HS open enrollment and let people pick what HS matches their students' needs/wants. It's clear that a full 4th HS is not going to be possible, now or ever, at this site, unless the County makes it rain (they won't).

Set it up so there's HB campus 1 and HB campus 2. A single lottery and you get assigned to a campus randomly. It will fill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if they dismantle the Stratford program and return those students to their neighborhood schools, does that mean they can free up more seats at HB number 1?

Oh for petesake, you're not really advocating for throwing students with special needs under the bus to get more seats at HB, are you?

No, I am not advocating this. But apparently it's happening. So, will there be more available seats at HB now?

Source for this? I know someone on AEM keeps saying this, but everything else I've seen or heard is talking about temporarily relocating the program while the Stratford building is under construction but before the Wilson site is complete.

The “dismantle” language is directly from the mouth of the “I’ll cut a b!tch” lady on AEM. No one else has any idea what she’s talking about. She seemed to verify that she was talking about the temporary move, but it’s hard to tell because she’s mostly just screaming at people.

That discussion is getting insane. But interesting that the "dismantle" language is now turning up here in a way that suggests it would be to create more seats at HB. Someone's sowing a rumor...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And it would involve tearing down an elementary school which adds huge costs and logistics in finding land and money to build a replacement.

It sounds like Kanninen supports building underground parking with a field on top where the current parking lot is, and adding the performing arts space. No pool and no second field by tearing down Henry. That seems reasonable. And if the neighborhood really refuses any neighborhood seats, then maybe just make it a second HB. The amenities would be more than comparable at that point.

This makes sense to me. H-B number two. Smaller school with fewer amenities. If we can't build the full thing here, and I really think we cannot because we just don't have the money without sacrificing everything else, then it can't be a neighborhood school. I refuse to be pulled into a school by force that does not have equivalent opportunities for extra curricular activities and sports. My kid may choose it anyway, but I would not be cool with it not being a choice. I think this is a reasonable compromise and would fill for sure without being neighborhood. And with underground parking, a lot of the neighborhood's complaints are addressed.

NP here -- I think you both are exactly right! I don't want a 4th high school that is not comparable to the other 3 unless it's a choice program. HB always fills, so why not make the 4th high school a second HB? No need for a pool or football field then, and it would allow more access to this coveted program. This seems so obvious to me.

But would it fill it parents didn't see it as the "real" HB? Do you make the current HB principal and half the teachers split off to run it?

Any choice program is going to have the same problem filling in the early years that Arl Tech has -- most APS parents aren't going to risk doing something different that doesn't have a proven track record of getting their kids into the colleges they think they should go to. So, you have to appeal to enough people to get through the first 4-5 years until you have some good college placement results.

And, APS isn't helping itself by communicating/planning so poorly. I've heard people say AT is a bust because it's not meeting its enrollment projections. That's only because the district kept moving the projections. AT was originally planned to be about 50 in year 1, 100 for each of the next two years, and then 200. They had about 50 the first year, about 100 the 2nd, and were originally targeting 100 for next year's freshman class. Then district says, no, make that 200, no, 100, no 150. They have ended up at about 130. Which, going by the original plan of 100 is, they are doing great, a bit ahead of target. But in the context of the constantly switching targets, could also make the story, AT sucks, they didn't hit 200 goal. Which shouldn't have been -- and wasn't -- the goal in the first place. Choice programs take time to build, positive word-of-mouth, desirable facilities. The CC definitely doesn't hit the facilities piece (although the CTE spaces are great). But, they are renovating this summer for a big face-lift which may help boost enrollment for the actually planned 200 target for the next year. Of course, throughout the year, APS is likely to say, no the target is 300, make that 350, or maybe 150, whatever.

Yes, HB is a proven. And yes, reassign some of the current staff so they can recreate it (not all, but some). They have the model, it can be replicated especially with some senior staff from HB being pulled in to get it off the ground. That or make all the HS open enrollment and let people pick what HS matches their students' needs/wants. It's clear that a full 4th HS is not going to be possible, now or ever, at this site, unless the County makes it rain (they won't).

Set it up so there's HB campus 1 and HB campus 2. A single lottery and you get assigned to a campus randomly. It will fill.

No, thank you. Can't take any more kids here. Go back and bug the Kenmore folks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if they dismantle the Stratford program and return those students to their neighborhood schools, does that mean they can free up more seats at HB number 1?

Oh for petesake, you're not really advocating for throwing students with special needs under the bus to get more seats at HB, are you?

No, I am not advocating this. But apparently it's happening. So, will there be more available seats at HB now?

Source for this? I know someone on AEM keeps saying this, but everything else I've seen or heard is talking about temporarily relocating the program while the Stratford building is under construction but before the Wilson site is complete.

The “dismantle” language is directly from the mouth of the “I’ll cut a b!tch” lady on AEM. No one else has any idea what she’s talking about. She seemed to verify that she was talking about the temporary move, but it’s hard to tell because she’s mostly just screaming at people.

That discussion is getting insane. But interesting that the "dismantle" language is now turning up here in a way that suggests it would be to create more seats at HB. Someone's sowing a rumor...

My bad, I just read through the whole exchange. I do not believe that to be credible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Set it up so there's HB campus 1 and HB campus 2. A single lottery and you get assigned to a campus randomly. It will fill.

So, how does this work year 1? Are we talking a real HB with middle and HS seats?

6th grade and Freshmen are easy -- lottery as usual, assign to a campus. All existing 7th/8th and Soph/Jr/Sr's in the program get randomly selected to have to go to the new campus? (cue the ranting and raving about my special community). Encourage families of non-entry year kids to apply if they want to and are up for the risk of not getting into the "real" HB (because, yes, that's how it will be perceived, esp. when the "real" HB gets the super fancy building and CC gets a budget renovation).

Make both campuses a lot larger? Adding an equal sized HB does not meet the seat deficit needs.

And we're still stuck with the fact that kids from these programs have to get back to Y/WL/W to compete for space in extracurriculars. And, in another 5 years we are still out of space for HS students because long-term we really do require a 4th HS. Unless someone can break the lock on building that at the Kenmore site, CC seems to be the only land we can work with so any choice program at the CC needs to ultimately be a program within a larger HS with appropriate facilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And it would involve tearing down an elementary school which adds huge costs and logistics in finding land and money to build a replacement.

It sounds like Kanninen supports building underground parking with a field on top where the current parking lot is, and adding the performing arts space. No pool and no second field by tearing down Henry. That seems reasonable. And if the neighborhood really refuses any neighborhood seats, then maybe just make it a second HB. The amenities would be more than comparable at that point.

This makes sense to me. H-B number two. Smaller school with fewer amenities. If we can't build the full thing here, and I really think we cannot because we just don't have the money without sacrificing everything else, then it can't be a neighborhood school. I refuse to be pulled into a school by force that does not have equivalent opportunities for extra curricular activities and sports. My kid may choose it anyway, but I would not be cool with it not being a choice. I think this is a reasonable compromise and would fill for sure without being neighborhood. And with underground parking, a lot of the neighborhood's complaints are addressed.

NP here -- I think you both are exactly right! I don't want a 4th high school that is not comparable to the other 3 unless it's a choice program. HB always fills, so why not make the 4th high school a second HB? No need for a pool or football field then, and it would allow more access to this coveted program. This seems so obvious to me.

But would it fill it parents didn't see it as the "real" HB? Do you make the current HB principal and half the teachers split off to run it?

Any choice program is going to have the same problem filling in the early years that Arl Tech has -- most APS parents aren't going to risk doing something different that doesn't have a proven track record of getting their kids into the colleges they think they should go to. So, you have to appeal to enough people to get through the first 4-5 years until you have some good college placement results.

And, APS isn't helping itself by communicating/planning so poorly. I've heard people say AT is a bust because it's not meeting its enrollment projections. That's only because the district kept moving the projections. AT was originally planned to be about 50 in year 1, 100 for each of the next two years, and then 200. They had about 50 the first year, about 100 the 2nd, and were originally targeting 100 for next year's freshman class. Then district says, no, make that 200, no, 100, no 150. They have ended up at about 130. Which, going by the original plan of 100 is, they are doing great, a bit ahead of target. But in the context of the constantly switching targets, could also make the story, AT sucks, they didn't hit 200 goal. Which shouldn't have been -- and wasn't -- the goal in the first place. Choice programs take time to build, positive word-of-mouth, desirable facilities. The CC definitely doesn't hit the facilities piece (although the CTE spaces are great). But, they are renovating this summer for a big face-lift which may help boost enrollment for the actually planned 200 target for the next year. Of course, throughout the year, APS is likely to say, no the target is 300, make that 350, or maybe 150, whatever.

Yes, HB is a proven. And yes, reassign some of the current staff so they can recreate it (not all, but some). They have the model, it can be replicated especially with some senior staff from HB being pulled in to get it off the ground. That or make all the HS open enrollment and let people pick what HS matches their students' needs/wants. It's clear that a full 4th HS is not going to be possible, now or ever, at this site, unless the County makes it rain (they won't).

Set it up so there's HB campus 1 and HB campus 2. A single lottery and you get assigned to a campus randomly. It will fill.

No, thank you. Can't take any more kids here. Go back and bug the Kenmore folks.

Too late, no backsies.

You don't get to dictate how the land that you don't own is used any more than the neighborhoods around Kenmore. We cannot build a school that is appropriate for neighborhood seats unless they divert all the money from everything else, including from the County budget. It isn't going to happen. And it shouldn't. This isn't the last school we need to build with the CIP money. Reality sucks, but there it is. HB-2 is a good compromise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And it would involve tearing down an elementary school which adds huge costs and logistics in finding land and money to build a replacement.

It sounds like Kanninen supports building underground parking with a field on top where the current parking lot is, and adding the performing arts space. No pool and no second field by tearing down Henry. That seems reasonable. And if the neighborhood really refuses any neighborhood seats, then maybe just make it a second HB. The amenities would be more than comparable at that point.

This makes sense to me. H-B number two. Smaller school with fewer amenities. If we can't build the full thing here, and I really think we cannot because we just don't have the money without sacrificing everything else, then it can't be a neighborhood school. I refuse to be pulled into a school by force that does not have equivalent opportunities for extra curricular activities and sports. My kid may choose it anyway, but I would not be cool with it not being a choice. I think this is a reasonable compromise and would fill for sure without being neighborhood. And with underground parking, a lot of the neighborhood's complaints are addressed.

NP here -- I think you both are exactly right! I don't want a 4th high school that is not comparable to the other 3 unless it's a choice program. HB always fills, so why not make the 4th high school a second HB? No need for a pool or football field then, and it would allow more access to this coveted program. This seems so obvious to me.

But would it fill it parents didn't see it as the "real" HB? Do you make the current HB principal and half the teachers split off to run it?

Any choice program is going to have the same problem filling in the early years that Arl Tech has -- most APS parents aren't going to risk doing something different that doesn't have a proven track record of getting their kids into the colleges they think they should go to. So, you have to appeal to enough people to get through the first 4-5 years until you have some good college placement results.

And, APS isn't helping itself by communicating/planning so poorly. I've heard people say AT is a bust because it's not meeting its enrollment projections. That's only because the district kept moving the projections. AT was originally planned to be about 50 in year 1, 100 for each of the next two years, and then 200. They had about 50 the first year, about 100 the 2nd, and were originally targeting 100 for next year's freshman class. Then district says, no, make that 200, no, 100, no 150. They have ended up at about 130. Which, going by the original plan of 100 is, they are doing great, a bit ahead of target. But in the context of the constantly switching targets, could also make the story, AT sucks, they didn't hit 200 goal. Which shouldn't have been -- and wasn't -- the goal in the first place. Choice programs take time to build, positive word-of-mouth, desirable facilities. The CC definitely doesn't hit the facilities piece (although the CTE spaces are great). But, they are renovating this summer for a big face-lift which may help boost enrollment for the actually planned 200 target for the next year. Of course, throughout the year, APS is likely to say, no the target is 300, make that 350, or maybe 150, whatever.

Yes, HB is a proven. And yes, reassign some of the current staff so they can recreate it (not all, but some). They have the model, it can be replicated especially with some senior staff from HB being pulled in to get it off the ground. That or make all the HS open enrollment and let people pick what HS matches their students' needs/wants. It's clear that a full 4th HS is not going to be possible, now or ever, at this site, unless the County makes it rain (they won't).

Set it up so there's HB campus 1 and HB campus 2. A single lottery and you get assigned to a campus randomly. It will fill.

No, thank you. Can't take any more kids here. Go back and bug the Kenmore folks.

Too late, no backsies.

You don't get to dictate how the land that you don't own is used any more than the neighborhoods around Kenmore. We cannot build a school that is appropriate for neighborhood seats unless they divert all the money from everything else, including from the County budget. It isn't going to happen. And it shouldn't. This isn't the last school we need to build with the CIP money. Reality sucks, but there it is. HB-2 is a good compromise.

Um, nope. APS won't be able to get the use permits it needs to build. That many kids on such a small plot? Can't pass design/security/environment/transportation, etc.

Put HB-2 in vacant office space. Much cheaper than building a 100 million dollar office building for HB-2 and plenty of vacant office space in the county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the 800 neighborhood seats would just be for the first phase. More neighborhood seats would be added in subsequent phases. I think if they don't build at the Ed Center, which they can't if they build a real HS at the CC site, then those seats would be on the CC parcel, either as part of Arl Tech or absorbed by the neighborhood school.

That meeting was depressing. Unless the county gives us more binding capacity, we can't build this school. If we do, then we have to pray that nobody gets a leaky roof for four years. Too bad kids, get out your umbrellas.

Yes, the 800 neighborhood seats are just the first seats, they would be quickly followed by +500, +500, +500. I believe that was on the slide.

So that is a MASSIVE amount of kids, kids that cannot be accommodated anywhere else in the county (disaster if all those kids would have to go to W-L, Yorktown, and Wakefield!), and yes, they will need full high school facilities, including fields, theater, and aquatic center.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And it would involve tearing down an elementary school which adds huge costs and logistics in finding land and money to build a replacement.

It sounds like Kanninen supports building underground parking with a field on top where the current parking lot is, and adding the performing arts space. No pool and no second field by tearing down Henry. That seems reasonable. And if the neighborhood really refuses any neighborhood seats, then maybe just make it a second HB. The amenities would be more than comparable at that point.

This makes sense to me. H-B number two. Smaller school with fewer amenities. If we can't build the full thing here, and I really think we cannot because we just don't have the money without sacrificing everything else, then it can't be a neighborhood school. I refuse to be pulled into a school by force that does not have equivalent opportunities for extra curricular activities and sports. My kid may choose it anyway, but I would not be cool with it not being a choice. I think this is a reasonable compromise and would fill for sure without being neighborhood. And with underground parking, a lot of the neighborhood's complaints are addressed.

NP here -- I think you both are exactly right! I don't want a 4th high school that is not comparable to the other 3 unless it's a choice program. HB always fills, so why not make the 4th high school a second HB? No need for a pool or football field then, and it would allow more access to this coveted program. This seems so obvious to me.

But would it fill it parents didn't see it as the "real" HB? Do you make the current HB principal and half the teachers split off to run it?

Any choice program is going to have the same problem filling in the early years that Arl Tech has -- most APS parents aren't going to risk doing something different that doesn't have a proven track record of getting their kids into the colleges they think they should go to. So, you have to appeal to enough people to get through the first 4-5 years until you have some good college placement results.

And, APS isn't helping itself by communicating/planning so poorly. I've heard people say AT is a bust because it's not meeting its enrollment projections. That's only because the district kept moving the projections. AT was originally planned to be about 50 in year 1, 100 for each of the next two years, and then 200. They had about 50 the first year, about 100 the 2nd, and were originally targeting 100 for next year's freshman class. Then district says, no, make that 200, no, 100, no 150. They have ended up at about 130. Which, going by the original plan of 100 is, they are doing great, a bit ahead of target. But in the context of the constantly switching targets, could also make the story, AT sucks, they didn't hit 200 goal. Which shouldn't have been -- and wasn't -- the goal in the first place. Choice programs take time to build, positive word-of-mouth, desirable facilities. The CC definitely doesn't hit the facilities piece (although the CTE spaces are great). But, they are renovating this summer for a big face-lift which may help boost enrollment for the actually planned 200 target for the next year. Of course, throughout the year, APS is likely to say, no the target is 300, make that 350, or maybe 150, whatever.

Yes, HB is a proven. And yes, reassign some of the current staff so they can recreate it (not all, but some). They have the model, it can be replicated especially with some senior staff from HB being pulled in to get it off the ground. That or make all the HS open enrollment and let people pick what HS matches their students' needs/wants. It's clear that a full 4th HS is not going to be possible, now or ever, at this site, unless the County makes it rain (they won't).

Set it up so there's HB campus 1 and HB campus 2. A single lottery and you get assigned to a campus randomly. It will fill.

No, thank you. Can't take any more kids here. Go back and bug the Kenmore folks.

Too late, no backsies.

You don't get to dictate how the land that you don't own is used any more than the neighborhoods around Kenmore. We cannot build a school that is appropriate for neighborhood seats unless they divert all the money from everything else, including from the County budget. It isn't going to happen. And it shouldn't. This isn't the last school we need to build with the CIP money. Reality sucks, but there it is. HB-2 is a good compromise.

HB-2 is a moronic idea, since HB-1 is only just being built- TOO SMALL, again. And I assume, HB-2 would also be around 700 students- to actually be the same, since the small size was quintessential according to all who approved this project. So that's perhaps 400 high school students. But what Arlington needs is a SCHOOL FOR OVER 3000 students!!!!

HB-2 won't do sh&^t for the capacity crisis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Set it up so there's HB campus 1 and HB campus 2. A single lottery and you get assigned to a campus randomly. It will fill.

So, how does this work year 1? Are we talking a real HB with middle and HS seats?

6th grade and Freshmen are easy -- lottery as usual, assign to a campus. All existing 7th/8th and Soph/Jr/Sr's in the program get randomly selected to have to go to the new campus? (cue the ranting and raving about my special community). Encourage families of non-entry year kids to apply if they want to and are up for the risk of not getting into the "real" HB (because, yes, that's how it will be perceived, esp. when the "real" HB gets the super fancy building and CC gets a budget renovation).

Make both campuses a lot larger? Adding an equal sized HB does not meet the seat deficit needs.

And we're still stuck with the fact that kids from these programs have to get back to Y/WL/W to compete for space in extracurriculars. And, in another 5 years we are still out of space for HS students because long-term we really do require a 4th HS. Unless someone can break the lock on building that at the Kenmore site, CC seems to be the only land we can work with so any choice program at the CC needs to ultimately be a program within a larger HS with appropriate facilities.

Spitballing here, but yes, I think 6-12. Then maybe we divert the MS expansion money here since this will provide MS seats. Year one, you give priority to all those who have been on the HB-1 waitlist, and then everyone else who enters the lottery is on equal footing. I don't know how they'd divide the students between 1 and 2, though. Randomly? If anything, this school will have more amenities than HB 1, and parking. And a lot of kids who go to HB do NOT go back to their home schools for sports. If varsity sports are their primary goal, they don't apply to HB for the most part. HB has its own arts and theater programs. I don't know how many HB students go back to their home schools for other extracurriculars.

Is this ideal? Nope. But we're way past ideal now and need to make some lemonade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And it would involve tearing down an elementary school which adds huge costs and logistics in finding land and money to build a replacement.

It sounds like Kanninen supports building underground parking with a field on top where the current parking lot is, and adding the performing arts space. No pool and no second field by tearing down Henry. That seems reasonable. And if the neighborhood really refuses any neighborhood seats, then maybe just make it a second HB. The amenities would be more than comparable at that point.

This makes sense to me. H-B number two. Smaller school with fewer amenities. If we can't build the full thing here, and I really think we cannot because we just don't have the money without sacrificing everything else, then it can't be a neighborhood school. I refuse to be pulled into a school by force that does not have equivalent opportunities for extra curricular activities and sports. My kid may choose it anyway, but I would not be cool with it not being a choice. I think this is a reasonable compromise and would fill for sure without being neighborhood. And with underground parking, a lot of the neighborhood's complaints are addressed.

NP here -- I think you both are exactly right! I don't want a 4th high school that is not comparable to the other 3 unless it's a choice program. HB always fills, so why not make the 4th high school a second HB? No need for a pool or football field then, and it would allow more access to this coveted program. This seems so obvious to me.

But would it fill it parents didn't see it as the "real" HB? Do you make the current HB principal and half the teachers split off to run it?

Any choice program is going to have the same problem filling in the early years that Arl Tech has -- most APS parents aren't going to risk doing something different that doesn't have a proven track record of getting their kids into the colleges they think they should go to. So, you have to appeal to enough people to get through the first 4-5 years until you have some good college placement results.

And, APS isn't helping itself by communicating/planning so poorly. I've heard people say AT is a bust because it's not meeting its enrollment projections. That's only because the district kept moving the projections. AT was originally planned to be about 50 in year 1, 100 for each of the next two years, and then 200. They had about 50 the first year, about 100 the 2nd, and were originally targeting 100 for next year's freshman class. Then district says, no, make that 200, no, 100, no 150. They have ended up at about 130. Which, going by the original plan of 100 is, they are doing great, a bit ahead of target. But in the context of the constantly switching targets, could also make the story, AT sucks, they didn't hit 200 goal. Which shouldn't have been -- and wasn't -- the goal in the first place. Choice programs take time to build, positive word-of-mouth, desirable facilities. The CC definitely doesn't hit the facilities piece (although the CTE spaces are great). But, they are renovating this summer for a big face-lift which may help boost enrollment for the actually planned 200 target for the next year. Of course, throughout the year, APS is likely to say, no the target is 300, make that 350, or maybe 150, whatever.

Yes, HB is a proven. And yes, reassign some of the current staff so they can recreate it (not all, but some). They have the model, it can be replicated especially with some senior staff from HB being pulled in to get it off the ground. That or make all the HS open enrollment and let people pick what HS matches their students' needs/wants. It's clear that a full 4th HS is not going to be possible, now or ever, at this site, unless the County makes it rain (they won't).

Set it up so there's HB campus 1 and HB campus 2. A single lottery and you get assigned to a campus randomly. It will fill.

Well, yeah, it will fill... with like 800 high school students total... while Murphy says we need 3000 seats.
I mean, fine, put HB-2 right in with HB-1, I hope they are building extra rooms, and increase that program ON ITS $ 1 million campus.

But it's not enough for the thousands of HS seats needeed. just a drop of water...