Let’s Talk APS High Schools: 4th one or no?

[Anonymous]

The main barrier to improving access around Kenmore is not just FFX but also VDOT. And that same line-up really turned out in Arlington’s favor with the 66 tolling (not). It is frustrating as anything but I get why the CB and SB think it is a lost cause. They know it would take years of fighting with an uncertain outcome.

[Anonymous]

By why not at least start that process so that potentially down the road something can happen at Kenmore? Why are they not even trying?

[Anonymous]

It is a resource issue. Arlington County Govt is not as well-resourced as the Feds. It is easy to forget that when so many of us are steeped in huge federal government agencies. The Arlington Co. departments are sometimes just one person. So do you spend your time fighting with VDOT over a difficult change that FFX Co and the local neighborhood are likely to oppose anyway? Or do you just focus on making other traffic improvements around the County that people support and are entirely within Arlington County's control? I hear you about it being so, so frustrating to look at all that wasted space at Kenmore, but I can also see their perspective.

[Anonymous]

Besides Penrose and the nearby areas of south Arlington smartly see the career center as an opportunity to have a better high school.
Why fight Glen Carlin when there is a neighborhood asking for the school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have a 4th high school that is choice (maybe arts or STEM) but use empty office space in Rosslyn for it...don't need to spend lots of money to build. Who cares about fields? use local parks or if you want that choice school you understand what you are getting

And exactly which parents are going to pick that? That's the problem. If you want the seats filled, they have to be appealing. Stuffig some kids into some retrofitted office space and making up some half-thought out program isn't going to cut it.

I would pick it for my kid.....going to middle school now. Not going to be the brightest. Could be Career Center. But very interested in arts & music. Other big school districts have done something like this & tihis would use what we have (empty office space) in fliexible way. If it is in Rosslyn there are also good transit connections & if you want Yorktown, you got that choice too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have a 4th high school that is choice (maybe arts or STEM) but use empty office space in Rosslyn for it...don't need to spend lots of money to build. Who cares about fields? use local parks or if you want that choice school you understand what you are getting

And exactly which parents are going to pick that? That's the problem. If you want the seats filled, they have to be appealing. Stuffig some kids into some retrofitted office space and making up some half-thought out program isn't going to cut it.

I would pick it for my kid.....going to middle school now. Not going to be the brightest. Could be Career Center. But very interested in arts & music. Other big school districts have done something like this & tihis would use what we have (empty office space) in fliexible way. If it is in Rosslyn there are also good transit connections & if you want Yorktown, you got that choice too.

So there's one seat. Only need to fill 799 others, and proportionally from each HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have a 4th high school that is choice (maybe arts or STEM) but use empty office space in Rosslyn for it...don't need to spend lots of money to build. Who cares about fields? use local parks or if you want that choice school you understand what you are getting

And exactly which parents are going to pick that? That's the problem. If you want the seats filled, they have to be appealing. Stuffig some kids into some retrofitted office space and making up some half-thought out program isn't going to cut it.

I would pick it for my kid.....going to middle school now. Not going to be the brightest. Could be Career Center. But very interested in arts & music. Other big school districts have done something like this & tihis would use what we have (empty office space) in fliexible way. If it is in Rosslyn there are also good transit connections & if you want Yorktown, you got that choice too.

So there's one seat. Only need to fill 799 others, and proportionally from each HS.

We have several kids and Arlington Science High sounds great. The NSF building in Ballston would be an ideal place for it. We could model it after New Directions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Putting a 4th comprehensive high school at the career center site will DOOM WAKEFIELD. A huge percentage of the UMC that give Wakefield any diversity at all will be siphoned off to the new school's boundary. This will leave Wakefield to have a very high percentage of kids from low income families.

They can have Glen Carlyn and Arlington Forest??

Seriously, we cannot be an entire high school short of seats because of a notion that it could "doom" one school. Maybe the SB will finally balance diversity over all 4 schools then.

Are you serious? You really think the SB would balance demographics? They refused to do that when redistricting for our existing schools. They refuse to make demographics an influential factor in boundaries at any level. And you actually think this will change with the creation of a 4th high school?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kenmore is not on the table. Career Center is.

But why? Kenmore has a ton more room. And moving an ES is much easier than finding land for a high school.

Last summer APS, Murphy and staff, did a whole analysis and meetings about this. They ruled out Kenmore for any high school development, now or EVER. It is OUT.
I don't remember all the reasons.

Doesn't matter what all the current stated reasons are. Kenmore was twice the preferred site for a new school - and twice abandoned because Glencarlyn said no. THAT is the reason Kenmore is "off the table" -- neighborhood selfishness and weak SB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The main barrier to improving access around Kenmore is not just FFX but also VDOT. And that same line-up really turned out in Arlington’s favor with the 66 tolling (not). It is frustrating as anything but I get why the CB and SB think it is a lost cause. They know it would take years of fighting with an uncertain outcome.

I just do not understand why Arlington's ability to develop on the Kenmore site is dependent upon VDOT and FFX Co. We built a middle school there. There is an elementary school adjacent to the parcel. The main traffic problem is not Carlin Springs itself, but the inefficient layout of the Kenmore site and there being only one entrance, which is also the only exit. Getting off that site after a big event is the problem. Traffic is the argument every single neighborhood cites to object to a new school development. But guess what - they build it anyway. Kenmore should be no different. There are things that can be done even without FFX or VDOT. And I also don't understand why the middle school students would have to relocate. This site is the biggest in APS, isn't it? It's bigger than Wakefield. The elementary school does not sit on its acreage -- it has 4 acres of its own, and has separate access.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The main barrier to improving access around Kenmore is not just FFX but also VDOT. And that same line-up really turned out in Arlington’s favor with the 66 tolling (not). It is frustrating as anything but I get why the CB and SB think it is a lost cause. They know it would take years of fighting with an uncertain outcome.

I just do not understand why Arlington's ability to develop on the Kenmore site is dependent upon VDOT and FFX Co. We built a middle school there. There is an elementary school adjacent to the parcel. The main traffic problem is not Carlin Springs itself, but the inefficient layout of the Kenmore site and there being only one entrance, which is also the only exit. Getting off that site after a big event is the problem. Traffic is the argument every single neighborhood cites to object to a new school development. But guess what - they build it anyway. Kenmore should be no different. There are things that can be done even without FFX or VDOT. And I also don't understand why the middle school students would have to relocate. This site is the biggest in APS, isn't it? It's bigger than Wakefield. The elementary school does not sit on its acreage -- it has 4 acres of its own, and has separate access.

I agree with all of this. If we can't use the site more efficiently for schools, then perhaps we need to sell or swap it for land that we could use. It has to be one or the other. We are running out of options, and the County Board keeps approving more housing that will bring families with children into Arlington. Where will they go to school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The main barrier to improving access around Kenmore is not just FFX but also VDOT. And that same line-up really turned out in Arlington’s favor with the 66 tolling (not). It is frustrating as anything but I get why the CB and SB think it is a lost cause. They know it would take years of fighting with an uncertain outcome.

I just do not understand why Arlington's ability to develop on the Kenmore site is dependent upon VDOT and FFX Co. We built a middle school there. There is an elementary school adjacent to the parcel. The main traffic problem is not Carlin Springs itself, but the inefficient layout of the Kenmore site and there being only one entrance, which is also the only exit. Getting off that site after a big event is the problem. Traffic is the argument every single neighborhood cites to object to a new school development. But guess what - they build it anyway. Kenmore should be no different. There are things that can be done even without FFX or VDOT. And I also don't understand why the middle school students would have to relocate. This site is the biggest in APS, isn't it? It's bigger than Wakefield. The elementary school does not sit on its acreage -- it has 4 acres of its own, and has separate access.

I agree with you about the acreage. But whatever the reasons were, they are developing the CC site NOW. We need a fourth high school yesterday. They are building it NOW. Budget-wise, it would be crazy to think that they will build two new high schools within the next 10 years, or even the next 20 years.

[Anonymous]

Why fight Glen Carlin when Penrose and Arlington Veiws asked for the school.
They want it. Their homes are going to see tremendous appreciation in the next 5 years. I wish I had bought over there.
Wakefield will tank and Glen Carlin will be redirected to it eventually- As they should.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The main barrier to improving access around Kenmore is not just FFX but also VDOT. And that same line-up really turned out in Arlington’s favor with the 66 tolling (not). It is frustrating as anything but I get why the CB and SB think it is a lost cause. They know it would take years of fighting with an uncertain outcome.

I just do not understand why Arlington's ability to develop on the Kenmore site is dependent upon VDOT and FFX Co. We built a middle school there. There is an elementary school adjacent to the parcel. The main traffic problem is not Carlin Springs itself, but the inefficient layout of the Kenmore site and there being only one entrance, which is also the only exit. Getting off that site after a big event is the problem. Traffic is the argument every single neighborhood cites to object to a new school development. But guess what - they build it anyway. Kenmore should be no different. There are things that can be done even without FFX or VDOT. And I also don't understand why the middle school students would have to relocate. This site is the biggest in APS, isn't it? It's bigger than Wakefield. The elementary school does not sit on its acreage -- it has 4 acres of its own, and has separate access.

I agree with you about the acreage. But whatever the reasons were, they are developing the CC site NOW. We need a fourth high school yesterday. They are building it NOW. Budget-wise, it would be crazy to think that they will build two new high schools within the next 10 years, or even the next 20 years.

They are going to add seats at the Career Center now; but as far as a full-sized high school, that's a phased development project. They are NOT building a fourth comprehensive there "now." More importantly, if you do want a fourth high school out of the Career Center project, you had better get engaged in that process and push for it. The neighborhood wants it, yes. But the neighbors to its north across route 50 in Lyon Park and Ashton Heights DON'T and are lobbying HARD against a fourth neighborhood high school at the Career Center. Why? Because due to their proximity, they are well within the effective walk zone and are very likely to be assigned to it. They will fight to the death to remain at W-L.

Until this, I would have said a fourth comprehensive will ultimately go at the Career Center because we need one and the SB will eagerly accept a willing neighborhood's offer and will NOT pushback on Glencarlyn. However, the SB is not guaranteed to accept the Career Center work group's recommendations or plan; and if they receive enough resistance to a neighborhood school there, they will placate the loud objectors and just create more option programs there instead. Then when we still need a fourth neighborhood high school, it'll be a mess and we'll have to go to Kenmore for SOMEthing.....which brings me the comment about it all happening now at the Career Center so why bother with Kenmore: the point about Kenmore is that it is simply unjustifiable to allow all that space that APS already owns to remain so hugely under-utilized. You can't fit all the comprehensive high school amenities on the Career Center site. So, hey, how about building a gigantic football stadium at Kenmore for the future 3,000 high school students on the CareerCenter site to use?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The main barrier to improving access around Kenmore is not just FFX but also VDOT. And that same line-up really turned out in Arlington’s favor with the 66 tolling (not). It is frustrating as anything but I get why the CB and SB think it is a lost cause. They know it would take years of fighting with an uncertain outcome.

I just do not understand why Arlington's ability to develop on the Kenmore site is dependent upon VDOT and FFX Co. We built a middle school there. There is an elementary school adjacent to the parcel. The main traffic problem is not Carlin Springs itself, but the inefficient layout of the Kenmore site and there being only one entrance, which is also the only exit. Getting off that site after a big event is the problem. Traffic is the argument every single neighborhood cites to object to a new school development. But guess what - they build it anyway. Kenmore should be no different. There are things that can be done even without FFX or VDOT. And I also don't understand why the middle school students would have to relocate. This site is the biggest in APS, isn't it? It's bigger than Wakefield. The elementary school does not sit on its acreage -- it has 4 acres of its own, and has separate access.

I agree with you about the acreage. But whatever the reasons were, they are developing the CC site NOW. We need a fourth high school yesterday. They are building it NOW. Budget-wise, it would be crazy to think that they will build two new high schools within the next 10 years, or even the next 20 years.

They are going to add seats at the Career Center now; but as far as a full-sized high school, that's a phased development project. They are NOT building a fourth comprehensive there "now." More importantly, if you do want a fourth high school out of the Career Center project, you had better get engaged in that process and push for it. The neighborhood wants it, yes. But the neighbors to its north across route 50 in Lyon Park and Ashton Heights DON'T and are lobbying HARD against a fourth neighborhood high school at the Career Center. Why? Because due to their proximity, they are well within the effective walk zone and are very likely to be assigned to it. They will fight to the death to remain at W-L.

Until this, I would have said a fourth comprehensive will ultimately go at the Career Center because we need one and the SB will eagerly accept a willing neighborhood's offer and will NOT pushback on Glencarlyn. However, the SB is not guaranteed to accept the Career Center work group's recommendations or plan; and if they receive enough resistance to a neighborhood school there, they will placate the loud objectors and just create more option programs there instead. Then when we still need a fourth neighborhood high school, it'll be a mess and we'll have to go to Kenmore for SOMEthing.....which brings me the comment about it all happening now at the Career Center so why bother with Kenmore: the point about Kenmore is that it is simply unjustifiable to allow all that space that APS already owns to remain so hugely under-utilized. You can't fit all the comprehensive high school amenities on the Career Center site. So, hey, how about building a gigantic football stadium at Kenmore for the future 3,000 high school students on the CareerCenter site to use?!

There are plenty of parents Zoned to Yorktown and WL who don’t want a school at Kenmore for the same reasons they don’t want kids at the CC. In any scenario north Arlington families get sent south. I would bet they rip that bandaid off and make the CC work. They will move stadiums and such off the main campus.