Leaving the suburbs for DCPS pay??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a parent who went from a DCPS Title 1, Head Start program to the suburbs, unless our Arlington teachers (who are wonderful) are hiding in the evening, they aren't working the same hours as our DCPS teaches did. Both our ECE teachers were in the building until 6-7pm most nights and were present at night and weekends at various school events, kids birthday parties, just simply around. In the summers they came to our home for the Flamboyan home visit. They would come to before school PTA meetings. Our ECE teachers were excellent, but they worked more than I do as an attorney. They made such an enormous impact on my child's life that I cannot adequately describe it or thank them enough. We all work for different reasons, and my best guess is that they work to make that difference and not for the extra money (and extra money isn't a bad thing...it's why I do what I do). Again, our Arlington teachers are great. It's just an entirely different environment.

Best of luck to you in your decision!

For the record all of those extras were not covered by admin. premium pay. It was all in a day's work. Kudos to those hardworking and dedicated teachers.

[Anonymous]

I always hear people say that Central Office is disrespectful. Who specifically in Central Office are you referring to and why do you feel they are disrespectful? It can't be the entire staff at Central Office. Honestly, many of them came out of the classroom as well and they also work long hours (past 5 most nights). Are some of the upper echelon in Central Office out of touch, a resounding YES! Is the typical working bee in Central disrespectful? Not in my experience. They are taking orders just as the teachers are.

Anonymous wrote:I have never worked in the suburbs. I’ve been in DCPS or charters nearly 10 years, since my first year teaching. I love my principal, colleagues, individual school culture (Title 1 School in SE, for what it’s worth) but I can tell you that daily I consider whether I have sold my soul to reforms and constant upheaval.

I’m in ECE and while it’s easier than being in an upper grade it’s no cake walk. Depending on where you teach you’ll have your own fair share of kids with various social/emotional and behavior concerns. My friend in FCPS constantly remarks over what I deal with solo that her admin. would step in for (behavior, parent concerns, families that need social work type services) —- just be prepared to be a lot more independent on that end for better or for worse. I like the autonomy, but some don’t.

The money isn’t that much better unless you’re in a high poverty school. With bonuses, step level increases etc. related to performance pay, I would be taking a massive pay cut to work anywhere else at this point and now that I have a kid and husband I just can’t work the same extra hours I did before. From what I can tell work/life balance is much harder in DCPS even if you’re typically good at drawing boundaries because 1) you’re constantly filling in gaps and working harder not smarter because of what the district doesn’t provide (I make my own curriculum materials, I’ve personally funded or used DonorsChoose grants for at least 80% of my classroom materials) and 2) your evaluation scores depend on lots of subjective variables (parent involvement, attendance at extracurricular events, etc.). I debate all the time about whether moving schools or districts would be less stressful, and while thus far I haven’t really wanted to, it feels icky to realize they basically have me financially trapped.

Things are VERY much about metrics, assessment scores, etc. here (more so than I can tell in suburbs). Even at ECE level. It feels like *everything* is quantified and compared in an apples to oranges way and that’s exhausting. It can be an extremely competitive and hypercritical environment instead of the collaborative environment you may be used to and I largely blame IMPACT and top down obsession with data.

The upper level leadership is disorganized at best and unethical at worst, and this was the case long before the current news stories. Like PPs have said, it will largely depend on your school. I stay because of my schools leadership, the families, etc. and not because of the pay. But central office completely disrespects teachers and has very out of touch expectations. It can sometimes feel like they pay well because they know otherwise you’d get fed up with being treated like a cog in a broken machine and just leave.

Choose schools very carefully if you make the switch. There are wonderful people and places to work in DCPS in spite of the overall culture.

[Anonymous]

Also, it sounds like this person needs to be prepared for a culture shock in general. The DCPS Way is very different from other districts. Even experienced teachers find themselves feeling inadequate due to unrealistic expectations.

Anonymous wrote:I have never worked in the suburbs. I’ve been in DCPS or charters nearly 10 years, since my first year teaching. I love my principal, colleagues, individual school culture (Title 1 School in SE, for what it’s worth) but I can tell you that daily I consider whether I have sold my soul to reforms and constant upheaval.

I’m in ECE and while it’s easier than being in an upper grade it’s no cake walk. Depending on where you teach you’ll have your own fair share of kids with various social/emotional and behavior concerns. My friend in FCPS constantly remarks over what I deal with solo that her admin. would step in for (behavior, parent concerns, families that need social work type services) —- just be prepared to be a lot more independent on that end for better or for worse. I like the autonomy, but some don’t.

The money isn’t that much better unless you’re in a high poverty school. With bonuses, step level increases etc. related to performance pay, I would be taking a massive pay cut to work anywhere else at this point and now that I have a kid and husband I just can’t work the same extra hours I did before. From what I can tell work/life balance is much harder in DCPS even if you’re typically good at drawing boundaries because 1) you’re constantly filling in gaps and working harder not smarter because of what the district doesn’t provide (I make my own curriculum materials, I’ve personally funded or used DonorsChoose grants for at least 80% of my classroom materials) and 2) your evaluation scores depend on lots of subjective variables (parent involvement, attendance at extracurricular events, etc.). I debate all the time about whether moving schools or districts would be less stressful, and while thus far I haven’t really wanted to, it feels icky to realize they basically have me financially trapped.

Things are VERY much about metrics, assessment scores, etc. here (more so than I can tell in suburbs). Even at ECE level. It feels like *everything* is quantified and compared in an apples to oranges way and that’s exhausting. It can be an extremely competitive and hypercritical environment instead of the collaborative environment you may be used to and I largely blame IMPACT and top down obsession with data.

The upper level leadership is disorganized at best and unethical at worst, and this was the case long before the current news stories. Like PPs have said, it will largely depend on your school. I stay because of my schools leadership, the families, etc. and not because of the pay. But central office completely disrespects teachers and has very out of touch expectations. It can sometimes feel like they pay well because they know otherwise you’d get fed up with being treated like a cog in a broken machine and just leave.

Choose schools very carefully if you make the switch. There are wonderful people and places to work in DCPS in spite of the overall culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Four year olds are cursing at their teachers?!!! Oh my goodness. That's absurd, no wonder DCPS is a mess. How does one discipline a four year old at school for that behavior? Seems like you are fighting against culture and family values.

This is an interesting question. I am an ECE teacher and two years ago I had 5 major behavioral issues in my classroom. MAJOR, think hitting, biting, pushing, swearing, jumping on tables, breaking stuff, etc. It was pretty much impossible.

With an IEP, a social worker, and a behavior support paraprofessional.

A. That's not discipline.
B. Do 4 year olds get IEPs for behavior? I thought they were under Early Stages until they reached a developmentally appropriate age to be tested for academic deficits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are teachers request to visit homes that are inhabitable or unclean when they see certain children everyday who aren't well kept? Wouldn't the families in these conditions object to homevisits for fear of embarrassment? I'd be afraid to visit a home of a student who was unkempt (dirty clothing, headline, etc.)

Reread what you wrote. Not only should you focus on how you wrote it, but also what you wrote. That is your answer as to whether you should leave your current district for higher pay.

[Anonymous]

Agree. There is a collaborative spirit in California that just doesn't exist in DCPS. IMPACT has created a culture that is a cross between Mean Girls, Survivor, Lord of the Flies, and The Apprentice. Everyone is so competitive for the wrong reasons.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are teachers request to visit homes that are inhabitable or unclean when they see certain children everyday who aren't well kept? Wouldn't the families in these conditions object to homevisits for fear of embarrassment? I'd be afraid to visit a home of a student who was unkempt (dirty clothing, headline, etc.)

This has got to be a joke. Afraid of an unclean environment? I work in a SCHOOL. Kids are dirty; they rub snot on their sleeves and hands. Our janitorial staff is a joke and we're lucky if the trash gets taken out. I'm pretty sure a filthy house is nothing to be afraid of.

I did the burbs to DC thing (sort of). I worked in a low-income, majority minority school in CA before moving to DC. I thought I was experienced at dealing with dysfunction, but DCPS had new types of dysfunction I hadn't anticipated. My school in CA was constantly out of everything (paper, books, whiteboard markers, desks, toilet paper, classroom space...), but everyone in the building was trying to do the right thing. I knew I could count on the other teachers in the building. The admins and counselors were stretched beyond belief, but I never felt like they were adversaries. In DCPS I never had trouble getting paper or whiteboard markers, but it felt like every man for himself. I would literally go in my classroom and lock the door from the inside (to keep out the random students who were roaming in the hall) and hope the admins would just leave me alone to teach.

[Anonymous]

You can't give an IEP for behavior problems alone. Those days are over. There has be a diagnosed learning disability that the child has been tested for however a behavior plan can be part of the IEP if a child needs one. For behavior alone, a behavior intervention plan should be put into place. That doesn't require an IEP or a 504 plan. https://www.understood.org/en/learning-attention-issues/treatments-approaches/educational-strategies/behavior-intervention-plans-what-you-need-to-know

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Four year olds are cursing at their teachers?!!! Oh my goodness. That's absurd, no wonder DCPS is a mess. How does one discipline a four year old at school for that behavior? Seems like you are fighting against culture and family values.

This is an interesting question. I am an ECE teacher and two years ago I had 5 major behavioral issues in my classroom. MAJOR, think hitting, biting, pushing, swearing, jumping on tables, breaking stuff, etc. It was pretty much impossible.

With an IEP, a social worker, and a behavior support paraprofessional.

That doesn’t work when your social worker says they aren’t experienced with three year olds and sends us to early stages which doesn’t give IEPs for behavior. Or at least that’s what I was told

[Anonymous]

I did the opposite. I left DCPS for a neighboring suburb for sanity. No amount of money will entice me to go back to DCPS. That pay is definitely "hazard pay".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I always hear people say that Central Office is disrespectful. Who specifically in Central Office are you referring to and why do you feel they are disrespectful? It can't be the entire staff at Central Office. Honestly, many of them came out of the classroom as well and they also work long hours (past 5 most nights). Are some of the upper echelon in Central Office out of touch, a resounding YES! Is the typical working bee in Central disrespectful? Not in my experience. They are taking orders just as the teachers are.

Anonymous wrote:I have never worked in the suburbs. I’ve been in DCPS or charters nearly 10 years, since my first year teaching. I love my principal, colleagues, individual school culture (Title 1 School in SE, for what it’s worth) but I can tell you that daily I consider whether I have sold my soul to reforms and constant upheaval.

I’m in ECE and while it’s easier than being in an upper grade it’s no cake walk. Depending on where you teach you’ll have your own fair share of kids with various social/emotional and behavior concerns. My friend in FCPS constantly remarks over what I deal with solo that her admin. would step in for (behavior, parent concerns, families that need social work type services) —- just be prepared to be a lot more independent on that end for better or for worse. I like the autonomy, but some don’t.

The money isn’t that much better unless you’re in a high poverty school. With bonuses, step level increases etc. related to performance pay, I would be taking a massive pay cut to work anywhere else at this point and now that I have a kid and husband I just can’t work the same extra hours I did before. From what I can tell work/life balance is much harder in DCPS even if you’re typically good at drawing boundaries because 1) you’re constantly filling in gaps and working harder not smarter because of what the district doesn’t provide (I make my own curriculum materials, I’ve personally funded or used DonorsChoose grants for at least 80% of my classroom materials) and 2) your evaluation scores depend on lots of subjective variables (parent involvement, attendance at extracurricular events, etc.). I debate all the time about whether moving schools or districts would be less stressful, and while thus far I haven’t really wanted to, it feels icky to realize they basically have me financially trapped.

Things are VERY much about metrics, assessment scores, etc. here (more so than I can tell in suburbs). Even at ECE level. It feels like *everything* is quantified and compared in an apples to oranges way and that’s exhausting. It can be an extremely competitive and hypercritical environment instead of the collaborative environment you may be used to and I largely blame IMPACT and top down obsession with data.

The upper level leadership is disorganized at best and unethical at worst, and this was the case long before the current news stories. Like PPs have said, it will largely depend on your school. I stay because of my schools leadership, the families, etc. and not because of the pay. But central office completely disrespects teachers and has very out of touch expectations. It can sometimes feel like they pay well because they know otherwise you’d get fed up with being treated like a cog in a broken machine and just leave.

Choose schools very carefully if you make the switch. There are wonderful people and places to work in DCPS in spite of the overall culture.

ALL staff at IMPACT office, Kamras (yes I know he's gone now but you asked for names)! Human Resource and OCTO - respectful

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I did the opposite. I left DCPS for a neighboring suburb for sanity. No amount of money will entice me to go back to DCPS. That pay is definitely "hazard pay".

Stressful like you can't imagine!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I did the opposite. I left DCPS for a neighboring suburb for sanity. No amount of money will entice me to go back to DCPS. That pay is definitely "hazard pay".

Congratulations! Peace of mind is priceless.

[Anonymous]

As you mentioned Kamras is gone. Head of HR is gone. Basically the entire top tier is gone include several Instructional Superintendents. Do I think the culture will change? Nope! Not unless they get a new Chancellor who is willing to do a deep clean and get rid of all of the underlings that are maintaining the old guard. DCPS will never be a truly successful district until it comes clean and has a total revamp. It needs to start by rebuilding the trust of the staff and stakeholders.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always hear people say that Central Office is disrespectful. Who specifically in Central Office are you referring to and why do you feel they are disrespectful? It can't be the entire staff at Central Office. Honestly, many of them came out of the classroom as well and they also work long hours (past 5 most nights). Are some of the upper echelon in Central Office out of touch, a resounding YES! Is the typical working bee in Central disrespectful? Not in my experience. They are taking orders just as the teachers are.

Anonymous wrote:I have never worked in the suburbs. I’ve been in DCPS or charters nearly 10 years, since my first year teaching. I love my principal, colleagues, individual school culture (Title 1 School in SE, for what it’s worth) but I can tell you that daily I consider whether I have sold my soul to reforms and constant upheaval.

I’m in ECE and while it’s easier than being in an upper grade it’s no cake walk. Depending on where you teach you’ll have your own fair share of kids with various social/emotional and behavior concerns. My friend in FCPS constantly remarks over what I deal with solo that her admin. would step in for (behavior, parent concerns, families that need social work type services) —- just be prepared to be a lot more independent on that end for better or for worse. I like the autonomy, but some don’t.

The money isn’t that much better unless you’re in a high poverty school. With bonuses, step level increases etc. related to performance pay, I would be taking a massive pay cut to work anywhere else at this point and now that I have a kid and husband I just can’t work the same extra hours I did before. From what I can tell work/life balance is much harder in DCPS even if you’re typically good at drawing boundaries because 1) you’re constantly filling in gaps and working harder not smarter because of what the district doesn’t provide (I make my own curriculum materials, I’ve personally funded or used DonorsChoose grants for at least 80% of my classroom materials) and 2) your evaluation scores depend on lots of subjective variables (parent involvement, attendance at extracurricular events, etc.). I debate all the time about whether moving schools or districts would be less stressful, and while thus far I haven’t really wanted to, it feels icky to realize they basically have me financially trapped.

Things are VERY much about metrics, assessment scores, etc. here (more so than I can tell in suburbs). Even at ECE level. It feels like *everything* is quantified and compared in an apples to oranges way and that’s exhausting. It can be an extremely competitive and hypercritical environment instead of the collaborative environment you may be used to and I largely blame IMPACT and top down obsession with data.

The upper level leadership is disorganized at best and unethical at worst, and this was the case long before the current news stories. Like PPs have said, it will largely depend on your school. I stay because of my schools leadership, the families, etc. and not because of the pay. But central office completely disrespects teachers and has very out of touch expectations. It can sometimes feel like they pay well because they know otherwise you’d get fed up with being treated like a cog in a broken machine and just leave.

Choose schools very carefully if you make the switch. There are wonderful people and places to work in DCPS in spite of the overall culture.

ALL staff at IMPACT office, Kamras (yes I know he's gone now but you asked for names)! Human Resource and OCTO - respectful

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I did the opposite. I left DCPS for a neighboring suburb for sanity. No amount of money will entice me to go back to DCPS. That pay is definitely "hazard pay".

Which district are you in now? What are the pros an cons?

[Anonymous]

I want to reiterate one point made that DCPS has a wide range of schools- moving to the District for the pay would be worth it if you worked at certain schools. What schools are you considering?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What district are you in now? DCPS is traumatizing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. Not only does our social worker suck, the behavior tech has no idea what they are doing and has so many issues in the upper grades, there is zero support for grades under 2nd.

It’s why I left.

Last year most schools got rid of behavior techs as not included in budget, I think they are back this year, another failed experiment. Basically run for the hills, you may get lucky but most vacancies will be at struggling schools. Not only that the principals and assistant principals routinely rotate or leave, it's a mess all the way around. Teachers develop PTSD after working at DC public schools.

I started in DCPS, got IMPACTed out, and moved to the suburbs. My principal introduced me to a group of teachers who came from DCPS in previous years. It was seriously like a therapy session during teacher week. "You don't have to be on guard here. No one is going to steal your belongings. They're not going to enact a new policy mid-year. There are no 'gotcha' surprise observations." I saw a student curse out a teacher and get suspended immediately. I'd never seen that in DCPS. It was always "the kids are dealing with trauma..."

The stress eating and happy hours ended almost immediately, but it took me an entire school year before I fully recovered. There is no amount of money that would make me go back.

I'm in PG County now. It has its problems, but they're not remotely close to what I experienced day in and out in DCPS.