Warning: take the warnings about SSRI with teens seriously

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I am an OP. I am also a scientist. In hindsight I see the causality in the change in her attitude. I missed it in realtime. I think the SSRI can take away the fear of action (anxiety) without taking away the root depression. Given the impulsive nature of teens, they do not realize the down cycle is not permanent and they are more inclined to take action.

You claim to be a scientist but your conclusions are based on what you 'see' and 'think'. Not very 'scientific'. While I'm sorry for what happened to your DD and I believe a very small subset of people may be more susecptible to suicide after taking medication, the black box label has done far more harm than good. It is well documented that since the black box label was applied in 2004, rates of treatment for depression have decreased and suicide rates increased. The FDA threw the baby out with the bath water.

From your posts, it's clear that your DD's attempt at suicide was because her depression was not well controlled and not because of the SSRI.

DP. Get over yourself. I don't care if you are a scientist, you haven't had any person interaction with OP's child so you have no clue what clearly was the cause. Whatever the reason, OP is advising people to be on the lookout. That's a good reminder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I am an OP. I am also a scientist. In hindsight I see the causality in the change in her attitude. I missed it in realtime. I think the SSRI can take away the fear of action (anxiety) without taking away the root depression. Given the impulsive nature of teens, they do not realize the down cycle is not permanent and they are more inclined to take action.

You claim to be a scientist but your conclusions are based on what you 'see' and 'think'. Not very 'scientific'. While I'm sorry for what happened to your DD and I believe a very small subset of people may be more susecptible to suicide after taking medication, the black box label has done far more harm than good. It is well documented that since the black box label was applied in 2004, rates of treatment for depression have decreased and suicide rates increased. The FDA threw the baby out with the bath water.

From your posts, it's clear that your DD's attempt at suicide was because her depression was not well controlled and not because of the SSRI.

DP. Get over yourself. I don't care if you are a scientist, you haven't had any person interaction with OP's child so you have no clue what clearly was the cause. Whatever the reason, OP is advising people to be on the lookout. That's a good reminder.

OP here. and, also, See is called observation. I observed this human to grow detached after the SSRI does was increased. As the detachment grew, she isolated herself from family and friends, culminating in a suicide attempt. Based on these observations, coupled with the reversal with the reduction of the SSRI, I conclude that the change in outlook was the result of the increase in SSRI.

I said the exact same thing with less formal language before, and two pp's back criticized me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In med school on my psych rotation, one of the psychiatrists thought that the reason some people attempt suicide on SSRIs is because after they have been depressed for so long they finally have a little bit of energy, enough to be able to carry out a suicide plan. He believed that oftentimes severely depressed people don't even have the energy to try to kill themselves and then the SSRI helps them feel slightly better so then they can try. Obviously that was just one person's opinion, but I found it very interesting.

I think this is an interesting idea as well. I've heard that often right before a person commits suicide, they often seem "better" to their loved ones and the suicide take family members by surprise. Suicide seems to take lives as depression sufferers are on the mend. This is why we need to be watchful of our loved ones with serious depression even throughout their recovery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In med school on my psych rotation, one of the psychiatrists thought that the reason some people attempt suicide on SSRIs is because after they have been depressed for so long they finally have a little bit of energy, enough to be able to carry out a suicide plan. He believed that oftentimes severely depressed people don't even have the energy to try to kill themselves and then the SSRI helps them feel slightly better so then they can try. Obviously that was just one person's opinion, but I found it very interesting.

OP here. Makes sense.

So people shouldn't treat their depression with SSRIs. Got it.

Absolutely not what I said

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In med school on my psych rotation, one of the psychiatrists thought that the reason some people attempt suicide on SSRIs is because after they have been depressed for so long they finally have a little bit of energy, enough to be able to carry out a suicide plan. He believed that oftentimes severely depressed people don't even have the energy to try to kill themselves and then the SSRI helps them feel slightly better so then they can try. Obviously that was just one person's opinion, but I found it very interesting.

When my sister attempted suicide shortly after being put on a new medication (and she had seemed so much better, with more energy) this is what her therapist told me.

Hugs to you OP - it was very kind and brave of you to share your story. Continued healing to your DD!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I am an OP. I am also a scientist. In hindsight I see the causality in the change in her attitude. I missed it in realtime. I think the SSRI can take away the fear of action (anxiety) without taking away the root depression. Given the impulsive nature of teens, they do not realize the down cycle is not permanent and they are more inclined to take action.

You claim to be a scientist but your conclusions are based on what you 'see' and 'think'. Not very 'scientific'. While I'm sorry for what happened to your DD and I believe a very small subset of people may be more susecptible to suicide after taking medication, the black box label has done far more harm than good. It is well documented that since the black box label was applied in 2004, rates of treatment for depression have decreased and suicide rates increased. The FDA threw the baby out with the bath water.

From your posts, it's clear that your DD's attempt at suicide was because her depression was not well controlled and not because of the SSRI.

DP. Get over yourself. I don't care if you are a scientist, you haven't had any person interaction with OP's child so you have no clue what clearly was the cause. Whatever the reason, OP is advising people to be on the lookout. That's a good reminder.

OP here. and, also, See is called observation. I observed this human to grow detached after the SSRI does was increased. As the detachment grew, she isolated herself from family and friends, culminating in a suicide attempt. Based on these observations, coupled with the reversal with the reduction of the SSRI, I conclude that the change in outlook was the result of the increase in SSRI.

I said the exact same thing with less formal language before, and two pp's back criticized me.

-Your DD had a history of depression/anxiety and self-harm.
-You put her on an SSRI and it worked well for about a year
-After about a year, the depression and self-harming behaviors returned
-Her medication was increased and she was less argumentative and 'moderately' pleasant to be around but still not typical (lost her edge/no dark humor).
-Within 3 weeks after the increased dose, her grades were dropping
-After 1-2 months on the increased dose, your DD attempts suicide
-You blame the SSRI

I'm really sorry for what you're going through but you are deluding yourself. Either the increased dose or the medication itself wasn't sufficient. Your DD's depression was still not controlled as evidenced by her continued self-harm. People who self-injure as your DD does are 7x more likely to attempt suicide. Even if SSRIs lead to increased risk of suicide in a very small number, your DD doesn't meet the criteria for those who are affected.

I understand the temptation to blame someone/something for what happened but the SSRI did not cause or lead your DD to attempt suicide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know you mean well and I'm very sorry for what you've been through with your DD but I hate it when people like you post these anecdotal stories. You don't know that it was the SSRI that worsened your DDs depression and led her to attempt suicide. As you stated, your DD was on an SSRI for a reason and she already had a history of self-harming. Every person with anxiety/depression, especially one like your DD, is at increased risk for suicide and the risk increases if not treated. All your 'warning' is doing is reinforcing the idea that SSRIs are too dangerous and make people less likely to accept that medication is an effective treatment for anxiety/depression.

Nothing is without risk including ibuprofen (heart attack/stroke), acetaminophen (liver damage/kidney disease/heart attack/stroke) and every other thing that enters the body. Whether your DD was on an SSRI or not, she was at increased risk of suicide and you should have been watching her. While shocking, this should not have been a surprise.

I say this as someone whose father and two brothers killed themselves and they were not on SSRIs. I also have 2 boys that have been on SSRIs since ES and my DH has taken them for 20 years.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3353604/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2799109/

+1,000,000
My father, who suffered from depression all his life, committed suicide when he was 60. He had never been treated for depression and was taking no medicine. I started taking Prozac in my 20's, after recognizing depression in myself. It literally has changed my life. I will happily take it for the rest of my life, and only wish I had been diagnosed with depression as a teen so I could have taken it earlier.

Both of my children are now on Prozac - diagnosed with depression in their teens. Depression is a real disease and can be successfully treated with SSRIs. I only wish my dad had taken them. His life might have been so different.

DH had pretty severe depression in his teens and he’s not and never was on SSRI’s. He did talk therapy for years and it helped him.
Nowadays everyone pops a pill. Sure, people who did not improve should have the option of meds and maybe multiple meds but the immediate medication is not appropriate for everyone.
There are actually life changing side effects on a lot of these drugs too.

Yes, and there are actually life changing effects to waiting to start an SSRI while you experiment with "talk therapy." Many (most) people who are clinically depressed don't need to talk it out. They have a serious serotonin imbalance that needs to be corrected. When I was depressed, I didn't need to talk it over with someone. I needed medication to correct my brain chemistry, and fast. After three weeks of taking Prozac, I felt like a normal person again. It probably saved my life.

So I would say to you that talk therapy is not appropriate for everyone. Many clinically depressed people simply need to up their serotonin. Just as a diabetic needs insulin, the depressed brain needs serotonin. Talking about it does nothing to correct the imbalance within the brain. I'll stick to my Prozac, thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know you mean well and I'm very sorry for what you've been through with your DD but I hate it when people like you post these anecdotal stories. You don't know that it was the SSRI that worsened your DDs depression and led her to attempt suicide. As you stated, your DD was on an SSRI for a reason and she already had a history of self-harming. Every person with anxiety/depression, especially one like your DD, is at increased risk for suicide and the risk increases if not treated. All your 'warning' is doing is reinforcing the idea that SSRIs are too dangerous and make people less likely to accept that medication is an effective treatment for anxiety/depression.

Nothing is without risk including ibuprofen (heart attack/stroke), acetaminophen (liver damage/kidney disease/heart attack/stroke) and every other thing that enters the body. Whether your DD was on an SSRI or not, she was at increased risk of suicide and you should have been watching her. While shocking, this should not have been a surprise.

I say this as someone whose father and two brothers killed themselves and they were not on SSRIs. I also have 2 boys that have been on SSRIs since ES and my DH has taken them for 20 years.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3353604/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2799109/

+1,000,000
My father, who suffered from depression all his life, committed suicide when he was 60. He had never been treated for depression and was taking no medicine. I started taking Prozac in my 20's, after recognizing depression in myself. It literally has changed my life. I will happily take it for the rest of my life, and only wish I had been diagnosed with depression as a teen so I could have taken it earlier.

Both of my children are now on Prozac - diagnosed with depression in their teens. Depression is a real disease and can be successfully treated with SSRIs. I only wish my dad had taken them. His life might have been so different.

A sample size of 3 doesn't allow drawing this conclusion. The FDA didn't ask around the neighborhood before putting on these warnings. They halp many people. They also cause suicidal behavior in others. Both are true. Your experience is great, but cannot be used to gloss over these problems, which are real. By dismissing these concerns you are doing people a disservice.

Look up Study 329. It was the original Paxil study and a reanalysis was performed in the original data. They found serious errors. Remember Paxil was marketed as being especially suited for teens -- found it was not safe and not effective for teens. Think about that: it was literally found to be not safe and to have no measurable benefit. But it is still on the market.

I will go by the dramatic effect SSRIs have had in myself and in family members. Just as I would go by real life experiences with a drug like Accutane, which all three of my kids have successfully taken. Are there side effects? Yes, among some people. However, the vast majority of people who take SSRIs (and Accutane) have life-changing results.

By dismissing these real success stories, you are doing people a disservice - people who could very well benefit greatly from medication.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a blood test to determine which AD will work best:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/03/170329145732.htm

It's new and a big deal. Similar test for painkillers.

This is wonderful news. Thank you for sharing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I am an OP. I am also a scientist. In hindsight I see the causality in the change in her attitude. I missed it in realtime. I think the SSRI can take away the fear of action (anxiety) without taking away the root depression. Given the impulsive nature of teens, they do not realize the down cycle is not permanent and they are more inclined to take action.

You claim to be a scientist but your conclusions are based on what you 'see' and 'think'. Not very 'scientific'. While I'm sorry for what happened to your DD and I believe a very small subset of people may be more susecptible to suicide after taking medication, the black box label has done far more harm than good. It is well documented that since the black box label was applied in 2004, rates of treatment for depression have decreased and suicide rates increased. The FDA threw the baby out with the bath water.

From your posts, it's clear that your DD's attempt at suicide was because her depression was not well controlled and not because of the SSRI.

DP. Get over yourself. I don't care if you are a scientist, you haven't had any person interaction with OP's child so you have no clue what clearly was the cause. Whatever the reason, OP is advising people to be on the lookout. That's a good reminder.

It is safe to say that OP's DD attempt at suicide was caused by her long history of depression/self-harm, not because of a medication she had safely taken for over a year. OP assumed, incorrectly, that the SSRI was controlling the depression/self-harm. It was not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know you mean well and I'm very sorry for what you've been through with your DD but I hate it when people like you post these anecdotal stories. You don't know that it was the SSRI that worsened your DDs depression and led her to attempt suicide. As you stated, your DD was on an SSRI for a reason and she already had a history of self-harming. Every person with anxiety/depression, especially one like your DD, is at increased risk for suicide and the risk increases if not treated. All your 'warning' is doing is reinforcing the idea that SSRIs are too dangerous and make people less likely to accept that medication is an effective treatment for anxiety/depression.

Nothing is without risk including ibuprofen (heart attack/stroke), acetaminophen (liver damage/kidney disease/heart attack/stroke) and every other thing that enters the body. Whether your DD was on an SSRI or not, she was at increased risk of suicide and you should have been watching her. While shocking, this should not have been a surprise.

I say this as someone whose father and two brothers killed themselves and they were not on SSRIs. I also have 2 boys that have been on SSRIs since ES and my DH has taken them for 20 years.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3353604/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2799109/

+1,000,000
My father, who suffered from depression all his life, committed suicide when he was 60. He had never been treated for depression and was taking no medicine. I started taking Prozac in my 20's, after recognizing depression in myself. It literally has changed my life. I will happily take it for the rest of my life, and only wish I had been diagnosed with depression as a teen so I could have taken it earlier.

Both of my children are now on Prozac - diagnosed with depression in their teens. Depression is a real disease and can be successfully treated with SSRIs. I only wish my dad had taken them. His life might have been so different.

DH had pretty severe depression in his teens and he’s not and never was on SSRI’s. He did talk therapy for years and it helped him.
Nowadays everyone pops a pill. Sure, people who did not improve should have the option of meds and maybe multiple meds but the immediate medication is not appropriate for everyone.
There are actually life changing side effects on a lot of these drugs too.

Yes, and there are actually life changing effects to waiting to start an SSRI while you experiment with "talk therapy." Many (most) people who are clinically depressed don't need to talk it out. They have a serious serotonin imbalance that needs to be corrected. When I was depressed, I didn't need to talk it over with someone. I needed medication to correct my brain chemistry, and fast. After three weeks of taking Prozac, I felt like a normal person again. It probably saved my life.

So I would say to you that talk therapy is not appropriate for everyone. Many clinically depressed people simply need to up their serotonin. Just as a diabetic needs insulin, the depressed brain needs serotonin. Talking about it does nothing to correct the imbalance within the brain. I'll stick to my Prozac, thanks.

You are wrong on the science of depression. It is not fully understood. Some depressed people actually have an excess of serotonin.

SSRIs work barely better than placebos. A sugar pill might have had the same effect that you think Prozac had on you.

Personally, I was on an SSRI for 10 years, starting at age 18. I, too, was convinced that it saved my life. Around year 8 or 9, the side effects became unbearable. It was then that I stated to look into SSRIs more deeply. They’re not the miracle drugs many people think. They’re actually a fairly ineffective treatment for depression.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I am an OP. I am also a scientist. In hindsight I see the causality in the change in her attitude. I missed it in realtime. I think the SSRI can take away the fear of action (anxiety) without taking away the root depression. Given the impulsive nature of teens, they do not realize the down cycle is not permanent and they are more inclined to take action.

You claim to be a scientist but your conclusions are based on what you 'see' and 'think'. Not very 'scientific'. While I'm sorry for what happened to your DD and I believe a very small subset of people may be more susecptible to suicide after taking medication, the black box label has done far more harm than good. It is well documented that since the black box label was applied in 2004, rates of treatment for depression have decreased and suicide rates increased. The FDA threw the baby out with the bath water.

From your posts, it's clear that your DD's attempt at suicide was because her depression was not well controlled and not because of the SSRI.

DP. Get over yourself. I don't care if you are a scientist, you haven't had any person interaction with OP's child so you have no clue what clearly was the cause. Whatever the reason, OP is advising people to be on the lookout. That's a good reminder.

It is safe to say that OP's DD attempt at suicide was caused by her long history of depression/self-harm, not because of a medication she had safely taken for over a year. OP assumed, incorrectly, that the SSRI was controlling the depression/self-harm. It was not.

No, it's not safe to say that at all. Did you miss the part about the huge dosage increase right before this incident?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know you mean well and I'm very sorry for what you've been through with your DD but I hate it when people like you post these anecdotal stories. You don't know that it was the SSRI that worsened your DDs depression and led her to attempt suicide. As you stated, your DD was on an SSRI for a reason and she already had a history of self-harming. Every person with anxiety/depression, especially one like your DD, is at increased risk for suicide and the risk increases if not treated. All your 'warning' is doing is reinforcing the idea that SSRIs are too dangerous and make people less likely to accept that medication is an effective treatment for anxiety/depression.

Nothing is without risk including ibuprofen (heart attack/stroke), acetaminophen (liver damage/kidney disease/heart attack/stroke) and every other thing that enters the body. Whether your DD was on an SSRI or not, she was at increased risk of suicide and you should have been watching her. While shocking, this should not have been a surprise.

I say this as someone whose father and two brothers killed themselves and they were not on SSRIs. I also have 2 boys that have been on SSRIs since ES and my DH has taken them for 20 years.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3353604/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2799109/

+1,000,000
My father, who suffered from depression all his life, committed suicide when he was 60. He had never been treated for depression and was taking no medicine. I started taking Prozac in my 20's, after recognizing depression in myself. It literally has changed my life. I will happily take it for the rest of my life, and only wish I had been diagnosed with depression as a teen so I could have taken it earlier.

Both of my children are now on Prozac - diagnosed with depression in their teens. Depression is a real disease and can be successfully treated with SSRIs. I only wish my dad had taken them. His life might have been so different.

A sample size of 3 doesn't allow drawing this conclusion. The FDA didn't ask around the neighborhood before putting on these warnings. They halp many people. They also cause suicidal behavior in others. Both are true. Your experience is great, but cannot be used to gloss over these problems, which are real. By dismissing these concerns you are doing people a disservice.

Look up Study 329. It was the original Paxil study and a reanalysis was performed in the original data. They found serious errors. Remember Paxil was marketed as being especially suited for teens -- found it was not safe and not effective for teens. Think about that: it was literally found to be not safe and to have no measurable benefit. But it is still on the market.

I will go by the dramatic effect SSRIs have had in myself and in family members. Just as I would go by real life experiences with a drug like Accutane, which all three of my kids have successfully taken. Are there side effects? Yes, among some people. However, the vast majority of people who take SSRIs (and Accutane) have life-changing results.

By dismissing these real success stories, you are doing people a disservice - people who could very well benefit greatly from medication.

Inaccurate on the SSRI claim.

[Anonymous]

In my kids I have an n of 2. SSRIS did not help either one. This is not to detract from those whom SSRIs have helped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know you mean well and I'm very sorry for what you've been through with your DD but I hate it when people like you post these anecdotal stories. You don't know that it was the SSRI that worsened your DDs depression and led her to attempt suicide. As you stated, your DD was on an SSRI for a reason and she already had a history of self-harming. Every person with anxiety/depression, especially one like your DD, is at increased risk for suicide and the risk increases if not treated. All your 'warning' is doing is reinforcing the idea that SSRIs are too dangerous and make people less likely to accept that medication is an effective treatment for anxiety/depression.

Nothing is without risk including ibuprofen (heart attack/stroke), acetaminophen (liver damage/kidney disease/heart attack/stroke) and every other thing that enters the body. Whether your DD was on an SSRI or not, she was at increased risk of suicide and you should have been watching her. While shocking, this should not have been a surprise.

I say this as someone whose father and two brothers killed themselves and they were not on SSRIs. I also have 2 boys that have been on SSRIs since ES and my DH has taken them for 20 years.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3353604/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2799109/

+1,000,000
My father, who suffered from depression all his life, committed suicide when he was 60. He had never been treated for depression and was taking no medicine. I started taking Prozac in my 20's, after recognizing depression in myself. It literally has changed my life. I will happily take it for the rest of my life, and only wish I had been diagnosed with depression as a teen so I could have taken it earlier.

Both of my children are now on Prozac - diagnosed with depression in their teens. Depression is a real disease and can be successfully treated with SSRIs. I only wish my dad had taken them. His life might have been so different.

A sample size of 3 doesn't allow drawing this conclusion. The FDA didn't ask around the neighborhood before putting on these warnings. They halp many people. They also cause suicidal behavior in others. Both are true. Your experience is great, but cannot be used to gloss over these problems, which are real. By dismissing these concerns you are doing people a disservice.

Look up Study 329. It was the original Paxil study and a reanalysis was performed in the original data. They found serious errors. Remember Paxil was marketed as being especially suited for teens -- found it was not safe and not effective for teens. Think about that: it was literally found to be not safe and to have no measurable benefit. But it is still on the market.

I will go by the dramatic effect SSRIs have had in myself and in family members. Just as I would go by real life experiences with a drug like Accutane, which all three of my kids have successfully taken. Are there side effects? Yes, among some people. However, the vast majority of people who take SSRIs (and Accutane) have life-changing results.

By dismissing these real success stories, you are doing people a disservice - people who could very well benefit greatly from medication.

Inaccurate on the SSRI claim.

Citation?