What differentiates those non-prodigies who make it to HYPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard/Stanford or bust. the rest are for dumb losers...

Jokes Aside, As a parent who will most probably have to pay full price for a kid to attend a private school, my spouse and I have decided not to give money to schools that are rated poorly for "fostering diversity of viewpoints" and "valuing freedom of speech". We have been following how the elite schools handle these issues based on the controversies on campus and have pretty much eliminated HYPS from the mix of schools that our child will apply to. There are too many good schools in the mix to let our money go to administrations that have policies that we seriously disagree with.

Harvard's administration seems to be specially egregious in this respect.

Dear Parent,

We regret losing the opportunity to add your child to the ranks of the 37,000 applicants we rejected this year and will attempt to solider on somehow, though our institution's future viability has been thrown into serious doubt by your disagreement with our practices.

Sincerely,
Harvard's egregious administration

P.S. I have pretty much eliminated supermodels from the mix of women I will date.

HYPS makes a lot of sense for students who qualify for very good need based financial aid. Others just apply for the prestige and bragging rights. When you are going to fork over a lot of cash to an institution, it is foolish to send your money to folks who will use it to advance policies that you abhore, specially when there are other good options. Having said that, if my kid got a huge financial discount to attend one of these schools, s/he would definitely apply and go if accepted. There are schools that reject over 85 to 90% of their applicant pool, that my child will probably apply to.

These four have just gotten way too arrogant on the strength of their endowment. The administrators thus care primarily about keeping their jobs by pandering to a vocal minority of current students and ignore the alums who have helped build up those fat endowments. We will have to wait and see how alums react to these whacky campus policies and rules. Meanwhile we are going to vote with our pocket books and hope that sooner or later a Tsunami similar to the one that destroyed Weinstein will kick some of these administrators from office and usher in some much needed change

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been a Harvard interviewer for 20 years. Prodigiousness is important, but motivated self starter is more important.

Also, a few non academic things will keep you out: PITA parents, arrogance, and an inability to get along with people.

How do you find out whether parents are PITA? (short of showing up to the interview with their kid)

You see it less often these days, but every once in a while, you get a parent who makes phone calls to attempt to influence the process. It's something 99.9 percent of parents would never consider doing, and it's pretty much instant rejection. Your main job as a parent is not to do anything that would imply that you will call and harass the Nobel Laureate, wooed away from MIT at great expense, about Buffy's O-Chem grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I honestly do think that it is down to luck for the non-prodigies. HYPS receives thousands of applications from non-prodigious kids with amazing grades, scores and great ECs. Who gets in from this pool is kind of arbitrary.

I was a Harvard undergrad and a Penn grad student who had to work a lot with undergrads ( was a TA). What I observed was that the top 15% or so at Harvard was markedly stronger because it consisted of the really extraordinary students and prodigies who tend to flock to Harvard to a much greater degree than Penn. Such students also existed at Penn but at much smaller numbers. However once you got past the very top I didn't notice any significant difference between the middle 50% of the student body at Harvard compared to the middle 50% at Penn.

Of course the interesting question here is whether the top 15% in college were the kids that looked like prodigies at the applicant stage. I was certainly in the former category and probably not in the latter (at least based on the indicators DCUM focuses on — standardized test scores and national/international competitions).

in my experience the kind of kid who was a math olympiad champion ended up effortlessly in the top 10% or so of the class at Harvard. It was quite frustrating to watch the prodigies just glide through, barely breaking a sweat lol.

This actually does not speak well for the University that it fails to challenge their most brilliant.

That PP doesn’t know WTF s/he is talking about. Sky’s the limit at Harvard, if you have the ability and the drive. Not saying that’s unique to Harvard, but, seriously, if you aren’t challenged there (and challenge is what you’re looking for), you’re doing it wrong.

You are not talking about MIT or Caltech here. You are talking about Harvard, with its rampant grade inflation. Of course these prodigy kids get perfect GPAs without breaking a sweat. On the other hand of course they can challenge themselves more with extracurricular projects, theses etc, but when it comes to just the coursework, that is easy at Harvard to begin with, it is nothing for prodigies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a feeling that Yale, Brown and Columbia avoided you.

silly comment. They are vey well known for being the most liberal ivies. Sorry that the facts don't sit well with you.

[Anonymous]

The bulk of parents I know with kids currently at HYS are very happy that their kids are making straight As. All bright and hardworking (their parents have many reasons to be proud) but I wouldn't say any of our kids including my own are prodigies. Now a straight A at MIT, Caltech, Williams, UChicago, Berkeley would strike me as prodigy level. While I have no doubt that true prodigies likely select Harvard, it must be the research that distinguishes them right? It couldn't be the grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard/Stanford or bust. the rest are for dumb losers...

Jokes Aside, As a parent who will most probably have to pay full price for a kid to attend a private school, my spouse and I have decided not to give money to schools that are rated poorly for "fostering diversity of viewpoints" and "valuing freedom of speech". We have been following how the elite schools handle these issues based on the controversies on campus and have pretty much eliminated HYPS from the mix of schools that our child will apply to. There are too many good schools in the mix to let our money go to administrations that have policies that we seriously disagree with.

Harvard's administration seems to be specially egregious in this respect.

I think Yale is the most egregious of the HYPS schools in that respect. Harvard is a bit better, and Princeton and Stanford are quite better. The ivies you wanna avoid are Yale, Brown and Columbia. The rest of the ivies and elites, while also predominantly liberal, are not as militant.

I am not sure Stanford is any better. Here is an alternative student newspaper at Stanford and reading it draws a portrait of Stanford that is not very comforting

https://stanfordreview.org/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a HYPS. I was an unhooked white female from NYC. 2400 SATs and in the top 1/3rd of my class (but not higher) at a public magnet. Did not try hard at all and constantly got marked down for late/I don’t homework. Two extracurriculars with national recognition, but not like in a prodigy sort of way. Intended to major in math and philosophy, which probably helped; but ended up as an EP&E major.

Actually found my school very easy; much easier than HS since I could avoid hard subjects that I wasn’t interested in and there was no busy work. Summa without much effort and gone most weekends for an EC. I got a lot out of the school, but didn’t find the academics particularly challenging.

EP&E? Did you go to Stuyvesant or Hunter?

Ethics, politics & economics -- it's a "selective" major at Yale modeled off of Oxford's "PPE" (Philosophy, Politics and Economics) major. ("Selective" just meaning that you have to apply; I think the odds of admission are pretty high if you've taken someone of the required classes and have decent grades.)

I went to Hunter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard/Stanford or bust. the rest are for dumb losers...

Jokes Aside, As a parent who will most probably have to pay full price for a kid to attend a private school, my spouse and I have decided not to give money to schools that are rated poorly for "fostering diversity of viewpoints" and "valuing freedom of speech". We have been following how the elite schools handle these issues based on the controversies on campus and have pretty much eliminated HYPS from the mix of schools that our child will apply to. There are too many good schools in the mix to let our money go to administrations that have policies that we seriously disagree with.

Harvard's administration seems to be specially egregious in this respect.

I think Yale is the most egregious of the HYPS schools in that respect. Harvard is a bit better, and Princeton and Stanford are quite better. The ivies you wanna avoid are Yale, Brown and Columbia. The rest of the ivies and elites, while also predominantly liberal, are not as militant.

I am not sure Stanford is any better. Here is an alternative student newspaper at Stanford and reading it draws a portrait of Stanford that is not very comforting

https://stanfordreview.org/

All elites are very liberal. Stanford is just one of the least liberal of the bunch. Not saying too much, but at least more moderate or conservative students dont get to experience the madness that is Brown or Yale.

[Anonymous]

I am often puzzled at US-centered education systems where the brand is supposed to mean something and carry a corresponding price tag. I feel I am a much more balanced human being because I did not go to a snobby school but I speak 7 languages fluently, have lived in several cultures very successfully (was well integrated and functioned like a local) and have a very broad and uplifting outlook on life, and a fascinating career in international development. Harvard or Stanford, or the likes of them, could not have given me that. I was lucky to be sponsored in a US graduate program and lucky enough to graduate completely debt-free, and start my career with a positive bank account number.

People need to stop obsessing about this type of stuff and carry on with much more meaningful pursuits to better this world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard/Stanford or bust. the rest are for dumb losers...

Jokes Aside, As a parent who will most probably have to pay full price for a kid to attend a private school, my spouse and I have decided not to give money to schools that are rated poorly for "fostering diversity of viewpoints" and "valuing freedom of speech". We have been following how the elite schools handle these issues based on the controversies on campus and have pretty much eliminated HYPS from the mix of schools that our child will apply to. There are too many good schools in the mix to let our money go to administrations that have policies that we seriously disagree with.

Harvard's administration seems to be specially egregious in this respect.

I am fairly confident that neither you nor your child will be missed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am often puzzled at US-centered education systems where the brand is supposed to mean something and carry a corresponding price tag. I feel I am a much more balanced human being because I did not go to a snobby school but I speak 7 languages fluently, have lived in several cultures very successfully (was well integrated and functioned like a local) and have a very broad and uplifting outlook on life, and a fascinating career in international development. Harvard or Stanford, or the likes of them, could not have given me that. I was lucky to be sponsored in a US graduate program and lucky enough to graduate completely debt-free, and start my career with a positive bank account number.

People need to stop obsessing about this type of stuff and carry on with much ymore meaningful pursuits to better this world.

Your branded U.S. graduate program plus and the connections of your thesis advisor at the branded U.S. graduate program got you that World Bank job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard/Stanford or bust. the rest are for dumb losers...

Jokes Aside, As a parent who will most probably have to pay full price for a kid to attend a private school, my spouse and I have decided not to give money to schools that are rated poorly for "fostering diversity of viewpoints" and "valuing freedom of speech". We have been following how the elite schools handle these issues based on the controversies on campus and have pretty much eliminated HYPS from the mix of schools that our child will apply to. There are too many good schools in the mix to let our money go to administrations that have policies that we seriously disagree with.

Harvard's administration seems to be specially egregious in this respect.

I am fairly confident that neither you nor your child will be missed.

Well, so much for "diversity."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am often puzzled at US-centered education systems where the brand is supposed to mean something and carry a corresponding price tag. I feel I am a much more balanced human being because I did not go to a snobby school but I speak 7 languages fluently, have lived in several cultures very successfully (was well integrated and functioned like a local) and have a very broad and uplifting outlook on life, and a fascinating career in international development. Harvard or Stanford, or the likes of them, could not have given me that. I was lucky to be sponsored in a US graduate program and lucky enough to graduate completely debt-free, and start my career with a positive bank account number.

People need to stop obsessing about this type of stuff and carry on with much more meaningful pursuits to better this world.

Thank you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am often puzzled at US-centered education systems where the brand is supposed to mean something and carry a corresponding price tag. I feel I am a much more balanced human being because I did not go to a snobby school but I speak 7 languages fluently, have lived in several cultures very successfully (was well integrated and functioned like a local) and have a very broad and uplifting outlook on life, and a fascinating career in international development. Harvard or Stanford, or the likes of them, could not have given me that. I was lucky to be sponsored in a US graduate program and lucky enough to graduate completely debt-free, and start my career with a positive bank account number.

People need to stop obsessing about this type of stuff and carry on with much ymore meaningful pursuits to better this world.

Your branded U.S. graduate program plus and the connections of your thesis advisor at the branded U.S. graduate program got you that World Bank job.

+1 good point, I have a lot of international experience without the U.S. grad school credentials and am a nobody so to speak. Husband graduated HYPS and is somebody. I showed him a lot about international politics, relations and economies. I consider myself smart and handle our investments successfully but have no outside validations.

[Anonymous]

luck