"Race-blind admissions" - which colleges in which states or countries?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Caltech isn't race blind

http://finance.caltech.edu/documents/479-cds2017.pdf

Their CDS marks "racial/ethnic status" as considered.

You'll have to look at these Common Data Sets and see which schools list "Not Considered". UCLA is one of them.

Cal Tech is private, dunce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I absolutely had to Google this about programs in English in Eastern Europe and the Baltics. Vilnius University's bachelor's programmes cost only 1900 euros a YEAR?!?
Charles Univ. in Prague would be incredible too but I'm not sure how healthcare works, the isolation factor as an international student, cost of flights home etc.
Is there a person out there with experience of these universities?

I don't have experience in those precise universities but happy to answer generally:
-- yes, tuition and living costs are much lower
-- good public healthcare, and easy to pay in as an international student (think less than $1k/ year)
-- isolation: not really a factor in major cities (tons of students from other European countries, and from Asia). True, depends where you go there'd be few US students -- but perhaps that's the opportunity to grow up and branch out?
-- flights home: depends a lot on specific cities and dates, but airfare can be $1k or so.

The major drawback would be to find a job in the US right after graduation. I don't know if it's possible, but in an ideal scenario you could spend 3 great years in a top European university and then transfer to a top US one for the fourth one and the job interviews -- and your story would be very compelling.

i as a transfer student from a european university. maybe things have changed but it was not possible to transfer more than 2 years. still, that would be substantial savings while overall a much better bath than doing the same from a community college. you can also go to a masters program or some other grad school program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Caltech isn't race blind

http://finance.caltech.edu/documents/479-cds2017.pdf

Their CDS marks "racial/ethnic status" as considered.

You'll have to look at these Common Data Sets and see which schools list "Not Considered". UCLA is one of them.

Cal Tech is private, dunce.

I was responding to the poster who mentioned Caltech. Maybe take some time to understand the context before spouting insults.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I absolutely had to Google this about programs in English in Eastern Europe and the Baltics. Vilnius University's bachelor's programmes cost only 1900 euros a YEAR?!?
Charles Univ. in Prague would be incredible too but I'm not sure how healthcare works, the isolation factor as an international student, cost of flights home etc.
Is there a person out there with experience of these universities?

I don't have experience in those precise universities but happy to answer generally:
-- yes, tuition and living costs are much lower
-- good public healthcare, and easy to pay in as an international student (think less than $1k/ year)
-- isolation: not really a factor in major cities (tons of students from other European countries, and from Asia). True, depends where you go there'd be few US students -- but perhaps that's the opportunity to grow up and branch out?
-- flights home: depends a lot on specific cities and dates, but airfare can be $1k or so.

The major drawback would be to find a job in the US right after graduation. I don't know if it's possible, but in an ideal scenario you could spend 3 great years in a top European university and then transfer to a top US one for the fourth one and the job interviews -- and your story would be very compelling.

i as a transfer student from a european university. maybe things have changed but it was not possible to transfer more than 2 years. still, that would be substantial savings while overall a much better bath than doing the same from a community college. you can also go to a masters program or some other grad school program.

Agreed. I did my full undergrad in Europe, then got into a great masters in the US. Better and cheaper.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So title says it all - which colleges practice "race-blind" admissions? Which are best for asian americans or smart but unhooked kids of any race to apply to?

In four pages, no one has suggested this, so I'm thinking there must be a reason, but you ask in the title for states or countries, so why not a country in Asia? They wouldn't discriminate against Asian American kids, would they?

And it could be a good opportunity for the young person who grew up here to experience their heritage culture. I've heard of a number of my child's friends going to college in the British Isles or Europe partly to learn more about the country from which their family immigrated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So title says it all - which colleges practice "race-blind" admissions? Which are best for asian americans or smart but unhooked kids of any race to apply to?

In four pages, no one has suggested this, so I'm thinking there must be a reason, but you ask in the title for states or countries, so why not a country in Asia? They wouldn't discriminate against Asian American kids, would they?

And it could be a good opportunity for the young person who grew up here to experience their heritage culture. I've heard of a number of my child's friends going to college in the British Isles or Europe partly to learn more about the country from which their family immigrated.

Perhaps no one has suggested it because it would be similar to telling an AA to go back to Africa.

Asian Americans have been in this country for centuries and, even if I fully agree with the spirit of cultural growth/ reconnection, it's not as easy as you think it is.

For the average Asian American, Canada, Europe, Australia, are probably easier and better options.

Perhaps add Singapore to the list?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So title says it all - which colleges practice "race-blind" admissions? Which are best for asian americans or smart but unhooked kids of any race to apply to?

In four pages, no one has suggested this, so I'm thinking there must be a reason, but you ask in the title for states or countries, so why not a country in Asia? They wouldn't discriminate against Asian American kids, would they?

And it could be a good opportunity for the young person who grew up here to experience their heritage culture. I've heard of a number of my child's friends going to college in the British Isles or Europe partly to learn more about the country from which their family immigrated.

Perhaps no one has suggested it because it would be similar to telling an AA to go back to Africa.

Asian Americans have been in this country for centuries and, even if I fully agree with the spirit of cultural growth/ reconnection, it's not as easy as you think it is.

For the average Asian American, Canada, Europe, Australia, are probably easier and better options.

Perhaps add Singapore to the list?

There's also the language issue. Just because someone can speak conversational Mandarin with their parents doesn't mean that they are fluent enough to take college courses in Mandarin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So title says it all - which colleges practice "race-blind" admissions? Which are best for asian americans or smart but unhooked kids of any race to apply to?

In four pages, no one has suggested this, so I'm thinking there must be a reason, but you ask in the title for states or countries, so why not a country in Asia? They wouldn't discriminate against Asian American kids, would they?

And it could be a good opportunity for the young person who grew up here to experience their heritage culture. I've heard of a number of my child's friends going to college in the British Isles or Europe partly to learn more about the country from which their family immigrated.

Perhaps no one has suggested it because it would be similar to telling an AA to go back to Africa.

Asian Americans have been in this country for centuries and, even if I fully agree with the spirit of cultural growth/ reconnection, it's not as easy as you think it is.

For the average Asian American, Canada, Europe, Australia, are probably easier and better options.

Perhaps add Singapore to the list?

How is it different from a kid of say, French or German or Italian ancestry going to college in one of those countries?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So title says it all - which colleges practice "race-blind" admissions? Which are best for asian americans or smart but unhooked kids of any race to apply to?

In four pages, no one has suggested this, so I'm thinking there must be a reason, but you ask in the title for states or countries, so why not a country in Asia? They wouldn't discriminate against Asian American kids, would they?

And it could be a good opportunity for the young person who grew up here to experience their heritage culture. I've heard of a number of my child's friends going to college in the British Isles or Europe partly to learn more about the country from which their family immigrated.

Perhaps no one has suggested it because it would be similar to telling an AA to go back to Africa.

Asian Americans have been in this country for centuries and, even if I fully agree with the spirit of cultural growth/ reconnection, it's not as easy as you think it is.

For the average Asian American, Canada, Europe, Australia, are probably easier and better options.

Perhaps add Singapore to the list?

How is it different from a kid of say, French or German or Italian ancestry going to college in one of those countries?

not PP but idea is that Asian Americans are Americans and Americans will fit easier in Europe. All of them will probably needs to study in English at least in the begginong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So title says it all - which colleges practice "race-blind" admissions? Which are best for asian americans or smart but unhooked kids of any race to apply to?

In four pages, no one has suggested this, so I'm thinking there must be a reason, but you ask in the title for states or countries, so why not a country in Asia? They wouldn't discriminate against Asian American kids, would they?

And it could be a good opportunity for the young person who grew up here to experience their heritage culture. I've heard of a number of my child's friends going to college in the British Isles or Europe partly to learn more about the country from which their family immigrated.

Perhaps no one has suggested it because it would be similar to telling an AA to go back to Africa.

Asian Americans have been in this country for centuries and, even if I fully agree with the spirit of cultural growth/ reconnection, it's not as easy as you think it is.

For the average Asian American, Canada, Europe, Australia, are probably easier and better options.

Perhaps add Singapore to the list?

How is it different from a kid of say, French or German or Italian ancestry going to college in one of those countries?

not PP but idea is that Asian Americans are Americans and Americans will fit easier in Europe. All of them will probably needs to study in English at least in the begginong.

That's a factor, but not the main one. Good universities in Europe attract students from many countries, both within the EU and outside, so it's easier to blend in even if you weren't raised locally. No one in Italy would consider De Blasio to be "Italian" American, but that wouldn't matter much anyway.

In contrast, good universities in Asia tend to attract much more homogenous student bodies, so any foreigner (asian American or not) would be seen an a Martian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So title says it all - which colleges practice "race-blind" admissions? Which are best for asian americans or smart but unhooked kids of any race to apply to?

In four pages, no one has suggested this, so I'm thinking there must be a reason, but you ask in the title for states or countries, so why not a country in Asia? They wouldn't discriminate against Asian American kids, would they?

And it could be a good opportunity for the young person who grew up here to experience their heritage culture. I've heard of a number of my child's friends going to college in the British Isles or Europe partly to learn more about the country from which their family immigrated.

Perhaps no one has suggested it because it would be similar to telling an AA to go back to Africa.

Asian Americans have been in this country for centuries and, even if I fully agree with the spirit of cultural growth/ reconnection, it's not as easy as you think it is.

For the average Asian American, Canada, Europe, Australia, are probably easier and better options.

Perhaps add Singapore to the list?

How is it different from a kid of say, French or German or Italian ancestry going to college in one of those countries?

not PP but idea is that Asian Americans are Americans and Americans will fit easier in Europe. All of them will probably needs to study in English at least in the begginong.

That's a factor, but not the main one. Good universities in Europe attract students from many countries, both within the EU and outside, so it's easier to blend in even if you weren't raised locally. No one in Italy would consider De Blasio to be "Italian" American, but that wouldn't matter much anyway.

In contrast, good universities in Asia tend to attract much more homogenous student bodies, so any foreigner (asian American or not) would be seen an a Martian.

Why is that? And why can't there be demands for change, just as so many colleges in other countries have responded and changed to accept students from many other countries?

And why does it even matter if a kid is seen as different? Isn't the point of college to widen one's view of the world and one's place in it?

I would think that it would make sense for students of Asian American heritage that are interested in college in a different country to at least consider schools in Asian countries in the same way a student with German or Italian immigrant ancestry might seek out a college experience in one of those countries. Maybe we should all widen our scopes when making college lists and not focus on a small list of schools in the US, which aren't all that much better than schools in other parts of the world anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So title says it all - which colleges practice "race-blind" admissions? Which are best for asian americans or smart but unhooked kids of any race to apply to?

In four pages, no one has suggested this, so I'm thinking there must be a reason, but you ask in the title for states or countries, so why not a country in Asia? They wouldn't discriminate against Asian American kids, would they?

And it could be a good opportunity for the young person who grew up here to experience their heritage culture. I've heard of a number of my child's friends going to college in the British Isles or Europe partly to learn more about the country from which their family immigrated.

Perhaps no one has suggested it because it would be similar to telling an AA to go back to Africa.

Asian Americans have been in this country for centuries and, even if I fully agree with the spirit of cultural growth/ reconnection, it's not as easy as you think it is.

For the average Asian American, Canada, Europe, Australia, are probably easier and better options.

Perhaps add Singapore to the list?

How is it different from a kid of say, French or German or Italian ancestry going to college in one of those countries?

not PP but idea is that Asian Americans are Americans and Americans will fit easier in Europe. All of them will probably needs to study in English at least in the begginong.

That's a factor, but not the main one. Good universities in Europe attract students from many countries, both within the EU and outside, so it's easier to blend in even if you weren't raised locally. No one in Italy would consider De Blasio to be "Italian" American, but that wouldn't matter much anyway.

In contrast, good universities in Asia tend to attract much more homogenous student bodies, so any foreigner (asian American or not) would be seen an a Martian.

Why is that? And why can't there be demands for change, just as so many colleges in other countries have responded and changed to accept students from many other countries?

And why does it even matter if a kid is seen as different? Isn't the point of college to widen one's view of the world and one's place in it?

I would think that it would make sense for students of Asian American heritage that are interested in college in a different country to at least consider schools in Asian countries in the same way a student with German or Italian immigrant ancestry might seek out a college experience in one of those countries. Maybe we should all widen our scopes when making college lists and not focus on a small list of schools in the US, which aren't all that much better than schools in other parts of the world anyway.

No, it isn't. That is a distinctly American conception of college which is not true in Europe and even less true in Asia.

The point of college in the eyes of most people in the world is to learn job-relevant skills, such those needed for engineers, doctors, teachers, lawyers and a handful of other professions. (In fact, in many countries our professional degrees - e.g. jd, md etc are conferred at the college level). The point is not to explore various fields, question everything, develop passion, "widen one's view of the world" as you put it etc etc. That's a very American approach.

Most Americans think that is the right approach. Regardless, you are not going to see it in China, especially as they overtaking the US in many fields. They think Americans are spoiled and clueless and they won't be copying American approach to colleges any time soon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So title says it all - which colleges practice "race-blind" admissions? Which are best for asian americans or smart but unhooked kids of any race to apply to?

In four pages, no one has suggested this, so I'm thinking there must be a reason, but you ask in the title for states or countries, so why not a country in Asia? They wouldn't discriminate against Asian American kids, would they?

And it could be a good opportunity for the young person who grew up here to experience their heritage culture. I've heard of a number of my child's friends going to college in the British Isles or Europe partly to learn more about the country from which their family immigrated.

Perhaps no one has suggested it because it would be similar to telling an AA to go back to Africa.

Asian Americans have been in this country for centuries and, even if I fully agree with the spirit of cultural growth/ reconnection, it's not as easy as you think it is.

For the average Asian American, Canada, Europe, Australia, are probably easier and better options.

Perhaps add Singapore to the list?

How is it different from a kid of say, French or German or Italian ancestry going to college in one of those countries?

not PP but idea is that Asian Americans are Americans and Americans will fit easier in Europe. All of them will probably needs to study in English at least in the begginong.

That's a factor, but not the main one. Good universities in Europe attract students from many countries, both within the EU and outside, so it's easier to blend in even if you weren't raised locally. No one in Italy would consider De Blasio to be "Italian" American, but that wouldn't matter much anyway.

In contrast, good universities in Asia tend to attract much more homogenous student bodies, so any foreigner (asian American or not) would be seen an a Martian.

Why is that? And why can't there be demands for change, just as so many colleges in other countries have responded and changed to accept students from many other countries?

And why does it even matter if a kid is seen as different? Isn't the point of college to widen one's view of the world and one's place in it?

I would think that it would make sense for students of Asian American heritage that are interested in college in a different country to at least consider schools in Asian countries in the same way a student with German or Italian immigrant ancestry might seek out a college experience in one of those countries. Maybe we should all widen our scopes when making college lists and not focus on a small list of schools in the US, which aren't all that much better than schools in other parts of the world anyway.

No, it isn't. That is a distinctly American conception of college which is not true in Europe and even less true in Asia.

The point of college in the eyes of most people in the world is to learn job-relevant skills, such those needed for engineers, doctors, teachers, lawyers and a handful of other professions. (In fact, in many countries our professional degrees - e.g. jd, md etc are conferred at the college level). The point is not to explore various fields, question everything, develop passion, "widen one's view of the world" as you put it etc etc. That's a very American approach.

Most Americans think that is the right approach. Regardless, you are not going to see it in China, especially as they overtaking the US in many fields. They think Americans are spoiled and clueless and they won't be copying American approach to colleges any time soon.

Okay, fair enough. So, then, why bother applying to schools here at all, since even the so-called top ones aren't all that great compared to schools in other countries? Why not seek out the best education, which appears to be found outside the US.

It might seem that I'm being somewhat obtuse here, but I really wonder why people even care about admissions policies of top schools here since I regularly read that equivalent schools in other countries are so much better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So title says it all - which colleges practice "race-blind" admissions? Which are best for asian americans or smart but unhooked kids of any race to apply to?

In four pages, no one has suggested this, so I'm thinking there must be a reason, but you ask in the title for states or countries, so why not a country in Asia? They wouldn't discriminate against Asian American kids, would they?

And it could be a good opportunity for the young person who grew up here to experience their heritage culture. I've heard of a number of my child's friends going to college in the British Isles or Europe partly to learn more about the country from which their family immigrated.

Perhaps no one has suggested it because it would be similar to telling an AA to go back to Africa.

Asian Americans have been in this country for centuries and, even if I fully agree with the spirit of cultural growth/ reconnection, it's not as easy as you think it is.

For the average Asian American, Canada, Europe, Australia, are probably easier and better options.

Perhaps add Singapore to the list?

How is it different from a kid of say, French or German or Italian ancestry going to college in one of those countries?

not PP but idea is that Asian Americans are Americans and Americans will fit easier in Europe. All of them will probably needs to study in English at least in the begginong.

That's a factor, but not the main one. Good universities in Europe attract students from many countries, both within the EU and outside, so it's easier to blend in even if you weren't raised locally. No one in Italy would consider De Blasio to be "Italian" American, but that wouldn't matter much anyway.

In contrast, good universities in Asia tend to attract much more homogenous student bodies, so any foreigner (asian American or not) would be seen an a Martian.

Why is that? And why can't there be demands for change, just as so many colleges in other countries have responded and changed to accept students from many other countries?

And why does it even matter if a kid is seen as different? Isn't the point of college to widen one's view of the world and one's place in it?

I would think that it would make sense for students of Asian American heritage that are interested in college in a different country to at least consider schools in Asian countries in the same way a student with German or Italian immigrant ancestry might seek out a college experience in one of those countries. Maybe we should all widen our scopes when making college lists and not focus on a small list of schools in the US, which aren't all that much better than schools in other parts of the world anyway.

No, it isn't. That is a distinctly American conception of college which is not true in Europe and even less true in Asia.

The point of college in the eyes of most people in the world is to learn job-relevant skills, such those needed for engineers, doctors, teachers, lawyers and a handful of other professions. (In fact, in many countries our professional degrees - e.g. jd, md etc are conferred at the college level). The point is not to explore various fields, question everything, develop passion, "widen one's view of the world" as you put it etc etc. That's a very American approach.

Most Americans think that is the right approach. Regardless, you are not going to see it in China, especially as they overtaking the US in many fields. They think Americans are spoiled and clueless and they won't be copying American approach to colleges any time soon.

Okay, fair enough. So, then, why bother applying to schools here at all, since even the so-called top ones aren't all that great compared to schools in other countries? Why not seek out the best education, which appears to be found outside the US.

It might seem that I'm being somewhat obtuse here, but I really wonder why people even care about admissions policies of top schools here since I regularly read that equivalent schools in other countries are so much better.

There are several reasons:

1) American employers prefer/are familiar with American schools
2) there is a lot of prestige associated with top American schools which are very selective. Even if graduates know nothing employers might prefer them
3) it's only natural that American will focus on American schools. Foreign schools are a new thing. I do think they will become more popular over time not because Americans think they are better but mostly because US tuitions are plainly insane
4) most Americans do honestly believe that college in needs to be a special experience where learning actual skills is secondary. FOreign schools are not their first choice for this reason

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So title says it all - which colleges practice "race-blind" admissions? Which are best for asian americans or smart but unhooked kids of any race to apply to?

In four pages, no one has suggested this, so I'm thinking there must be a reason, but you ask in the title for states or countries, so why not a country in Asia? They wouldn't discriminate against Asian American kids, would they?

And it could be a good opportunity for the young person who grew up here to experience their heritage culture. I've heard of a number of my child's friends going to college in the British Isles or Europe partly to learn more about the country from which their family immigrated.

Perhaps no one has suggested it because it would be similar to telling an AA to go back to Africa.

Asian Americans have been in this country for centuries and, even if I fully agree with the spirit of cultural growth/ reconnection, it's not as easy as you think it is.

For the average Asian American, Canada, Europe, Australia, are probably easier and better options.

Perhaps add Singapore to the list?

How is it different from a kid of say, French or German or Italian ancestry going to college in one of those countries?

not PP but idea is that Asian Americans are Americans and Americans will fit easier in Europe. All of them will probably needs to study in English at least in the begginong.

That's a factor, but not the main one. Good universities in Europe attract students from many countries, both within the EU and outside, so it's easier to blend in even if you weren't raised locally. No one in Italy would consider De Blasio to be "Italian" American, but that wouldn't matter much anyway.

In contrast, good universities in Asia tend to attract much more homogenous student bodies, so any foreigner (asian American or not) would be seen an a Martian.

Why is that? And why can't there be demands for change, just as so many colleges in other countries have responded and changed to accept students from many other countries?

And why does it even matter if a kid is seen as different? Isn't the point of college to widen one's view of the world and one's place in it?

I would think that it would make sense for students of Asian American heritage that are interested in college in a different country to at least consider schools in Asian countries in the same way a student with German or Italian immigrant ancestry might seek out a college experience in one of those countries. Maybe we should all widen our scopes when making college lists and not focus on a small list of schools in the US, which aren't all that much better than schools in other parts of the world anyway.

No, it isn't. That is a distinctly American conception of college which is not true in Europe and even less true in Asia.

The point of college in the eyes of most people in the world is to learn job-relevant skills, such those needed for engineers, doctors, teachers, lawyers and a handful of other professions. (In fact, in many countries our professional degrees - e.g. jd, md etc are conferred at the college level). The point is not to explore various fields, question everything, develop passion, "widen one's view of the world" as you put it etc etc. That's a very American approach.

Most Americans think that is the right approach. Regardless, you are not going to see it in China, especially as they overtaking the US in many fields. They think Americans are spoiled and clueless and they won't be copying American approach to colleges any time soon.

Okay, fair enough. So, then, why bother applying to schools here at all, since even the so-called top ones aren't all that great compared to schools in other countries? Why not seek out the best education, which appears to be found outside the US.

It might seem that I'm being somewhat obtuse here, but I really wonder why people even care about admissions policies of top schools here since I regularly read that equivalent schools in other countries are so much better.

Because it is manifestly unfair to have to consider leaving your own country for a university degree because the system is rigged against you.

I can explain it slower if you'd like me to.

PS: I want to see you argue that we should abolish affirmative action because, well, blacks could simply go to study in some top African university (they exist) -- cheaper and better.