PSA MCPS math warning

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cc2.0 prohoboted child computing with figures and toes. One has to draw. When some yound kids who haven't fully developed their fine motor motion and cannot draw well, they become frustrated and give up. Math is painful.

Uh, Kids count on their fingers naturally. Common core won’t stop that.

Not mine. We spent many hours at home working on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Since both Maryland and Massachusetts adopted common core, there must be something that Massachusetts does better than Maryland. Anybody can say what that is?

I compared my DCPS kid's PARCC score to the Massachusetts concordance tables, and his score would have been in the 98th percentile there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cc2.0 prohoboted child computing with figures and toes. One has to draw. When some yound kids who haven't fully developed their fine motor motion and cannot draw well, they become frustrated and give up. Math is painful.

Uh, Kids count on their fingers naturally. Common core won’t stop that.

Not mine. We spent many hours at home working on it.

Congratulations? In young grades they are teaching themselves a natural way to be comfortable with learning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it's the MS math sequence under 2.0. Algebra I, Geometry and Algebra II are weak on symbolic computation. Even something as simple as rationalizing a denominator, is explicitly forbidden by the curriculum even in Algebra II. I guess this is considered too pedantic, but it's the sort of practice that is needed for radicals to become second nature. Instead there is lots of examining graphs and qualitative work. But a qualitative understanding isn't of much use to someone who never develops a muscle memory for computation.

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse since I said something similar in another thread, but MCPS math actually doesn't begin until pre-calc. Unfortunately, it's sink or swim at that point, because suddenly all these un-practiced skills are expected to be solid. Which means a lot of material crammed into one year.

Interesting. It seems like many of the curricula designed to fit common core standards focus a lot on qualitative work, whereas private schools tend more to be sticking with their historic practices (including more focus on proofs for students in honors tracks). From what you read on these boards, the big problem with math in MCPS right now is that unless you end up in the middle and high school science/math/computer magnets, there isn't much opportunity for more advanced kids. Yes, you can take compacted match in 4th/5th to get on a faster track and take Geometry in 8th (which some privates don't offer), but the actual teaching of math seems weak outside of those programs. Would love to hear from people who have experienced otherwise though...

It's possible some teachers still put more into the classes, similar to the magnet, I'd like to hear it, too. But the county packets they begin with are such poor quality and it's not as if there are text books with additional activities to fall back on. I know that the qualitative approach took off some time in the nineties, idea being that tools like graphing calculators could give students with shaky fundamentals access to bigger concepts. But now this concept has completely overtaken these classes.

My DC is in geometry and it's fluff. The two weeks spent on proofs were just fill in the blanks in three lines of argument. There was a table of arguments to be used but it was worded as if each was a one way implication and not an equivalency. The table was titled "Acceptable Reasons when writing a triangle congruence proof" with entries like "Alternate Interior Angles: Used ONLY when you have parallel lines! to describe why angles in this position are congruent." But no entry to suggest converse that equal Alternate Interior Angles implies parallel lines. And the wording of the statement is forceful enough to suggest this isn't true.

I know that proofs based geometry is long since out of favor, but even the small glimpse they get is so imprecisely written and incomplete, it does more harm than good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cc2.0 prohoboted child computing with figures and toes. One has to draw. When some yound kids who haven't fully developed their fine motor motion and cannot draw well, they become frustrated and give up. Math is painful.

Uh, Kids count on their fingers naturally. Common core won’t stop that.

Not mine. We spent many hours at home working on it.

That's a shame. Physical objects (fingers, dried beans, whatever) can really help with math in the early grades.

[Anonymous]

We used a Whitman math teacher as a tutor at one point. It was the first year 2.0 was being used to teach geometry. He told us that at Whitman the math department chair was rewriting the county lessons. They were not using the mcps provided materials. This was several years ago but just shows you never know what is happening at other schools.

[Anonymous]

OP,
So sorry that you got this rude shock. However, if you have come from overseas you will realize that Math in US is not up to international standards (Europe and Asia) as well.

This is the precise reason that Asian-Americans in this country have become Tiger parents. We are perfectly aware how far behind our GT/magnet kid is as compared to the rest of the world, because we still visit our relatives in Asia every year. We MCPS high achiever child can barely keep up with Asian cousins there who are considered "mediocre students". We know that our children are at the floor of the international achievement gap and we know that when it comes to college admissions and jobs, no distinction will be made between Asian Americans and Asian students.

No child will agree to studying more than what the school requires. Who will want to do a daily hour of Singapore Math, sit for enrichment classes, take tests - if it is not something their peers are doing at school? As parents, it seems that we are not living the easy life that this country affords. Instead, our social and leisure hours are spent in the education of our children because the schools are failing them. This is not even a private vs public school issue. Compared to private schools, MCPS (at least the magnets) are doing a better job in curriculum. And if the curriculum is made rigorous, most Math teachers are also ill qualified to teach Math.

[Anonymous]

Mcps uses the nationally normed MAP tests 3 times a year and I always follow those scores. I am unclear how we can be that far behind. If my child is above the 90th percentile on that how would he be so behind in other places in the country? True question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We used a Whitman math teacher as a tutor at one point. It was the first year 2.0 was being used to teach geometry. He told us that at Whitman the math department chair was rewriting the county lessons. They were not using the mcps provided materials. This was several years ago but just shows you never know what is happening at other schools.

Thanks. No, you can't know what's going on at other schools it's hard enough to figure out what's going on at your own. But it's good they were able to re-write. I wonder if they were able to get their materials down to the feeder middle schools. My older DC was in the rollout year, and three years later younger DC is seeing the same materials. There's been a lot of teacher turnover at the MS, too, so even if there had been a concerted effort to re-write, by now it may have fallen by the wayside. Regardless everyone would be better off with a textbook to fall back on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP,
So sorry that you got this rude shock. However, if you have come from overseas you will realize that Math in US is not up to international standards (Europe and Asia) as well.

This is the precise reason that Asian-Americans in this country have become Tiger parents. We are perfectly aware how far behind our GT/magnet kid is as compared to the rest of the world, because we still visit our relatives in Asia every year. We MCPS high achiever child can barely keep up with Asian cousins there who are considered "mediocre students". We know that our children are at the floor of the international achievement gap and we know that when it comes to college admissions and jobs, no distinction will be made between Asian Americans and Asian students.

No child will agree to studying more than what the school requires. Who will want to do a daily hour of Singapore Math, sit for enrichment classes, take tests - if it is not something their peers are doing at school? As parents, it seems that we are not living the easy life that this country affords. Instead, our social and leisure hours are spent in the education of our children because the schools are failing them. This is not even a private vs public school issue. Compared to private schools, MCPS (at least the magnets) are doing a better job in curriculum. And if the curriculum is made rigorous, most Math teachers are also ill qualified to teach Math.

Well, some Asian-American parents. But not all. There are a lot of Asian-American parents in the US, and Asia is a big continent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP,
So sorry that you got this rude shock. However, if you have come from overseas you will realize that Math in US is not up to international standards (Europe and Asia) as well.

This is the precise reason that Asian-Americans in this country have become Tiger parents. We are perfectly aware how far behind our GT/magnet kid is as compared to the rest of the world, because we still visit our relatives in Asia every year. We MCPS high achiever child can barely keep up with Asian cousins there who are considered "mediocre students". We know that our children are at the floor of the international achievement gap and we know that when it comes to college admissions and jobs, no distinction will be made between Asian Americans and Asian students.

No child will agree to studying more than what the school requires. Who will want to do a daily hour of Singapore Math, sit for enrichment classes, take tests - if it is not something their peers are doing at school? As parents, it seems that we are not living the easy life that this country affords. Instead, our social and leisure hours are spent in the education of our children because the schools are failing them. This is not even a private vs public school issue. Compared to private schools, MCPS (at least the magnets) are doing a better job in curriculum. And if the curriculum is made rigorous, most Math teachers are also ill qualified to teach Math.

ok, but parents/kids in those Asian countries don't exactly have much of a leisure life, either. Kids spend hours after school in cram classes. No thank you. My cousins from Asia are desperate to not have their kids grow up in that environment and want them to go to school in the US.

I don't want what they are doing over in those Asian countries, but there is something in between doing nothing at home and spending HOURS after school in cram schools. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it's the MS math sequence under 2.0. Algebra I, Geometry and Algebra II are weak on symbolic computation. Even something as simple as rationalizing a denominator, is explicitly forbidden by the curriculum even in Algebra II. I guess this is considered too pedantic, but it's the sort of practice that is needed for radicals to become second nature. Instead there is lots of examining graphs and qualitative work. But a qualitative understanding isn't of much use to someone who never develops a muscle memory for computation.

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse since I said something similar in another thread, but MCPS math actually doesn't begin until pre-calc. Unfortunately, it's sink or swim at that point, because suddenly all these un-practiced skills are expected to be solid. Which means a lot of material crammed into one year.

Interesting about rationalizing the radical. Will have to ask my kids at the TP magnet. So far, I think we have done pretty well w/ math despite 2.0. I do not get why doing something 3 ways and talking about = greater understanding. Sometimes repetition leads to greater understanding, and they get little of that. I have noticed that many worksheets leave little room to "show your work." I am a big fan of working problems in steps -- that's how you understand them, not by talking about them. But my youngest works an algebra problem condensing 3 steps into 1 w/o showing what she is doing to each side of the equation to keep balance. I think that is the way to understand math.

And, the math on the middle school test (at least up until this year) is completely opposite of what MCPS teaches. If a kid takes time and does thing 5 different ways, they run out of time on the test. (I also have issues w/ that test, & I'm glad they ditched it -- the HS math test made much more sense).

Anyway, I think my kids are well prepared in math b/c they have had amazing teachers (even in HGC, the teacher augmented and add a lot). My kids did have to learn times tables I think to 16 and powers (memorized). And, now in TP magnet, it has been rigorous (though I wish the used more steps to mentally solidify what they are doing to an equation & why -- that's the why, not writing a paragraph)!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

NP. I have a kindergartener. What should I be doing to supplement now and in the future? Thank you!

OP here. If I had it to do over I would have had them do an outside math program that included testing with actual questions that required getting the right answers not writing a bunch of bull shit about their critical thinking skills pondering the damn question. [/quot

NP with DD in K--does anyone have a Math program either in the MoCo area or online to recommend? I hate math and firmly believe it's because I had an awful teacher for two years in high school who taught both Algebra and Geometry. I want DD to succeed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it's the MS math sequence under 2.0. Algebra I, Geometry and Algebra II are weak on symbolic computation. Even something as simple as rationalizing a denominator, is explicitly forbidden by the curriculum even in Algebra II. I guess this is considered too pedantic, but it's the sort of practice that is needed for radicals to become second nature. Instead there is lots of examining graphs and qualitative work. But a qualitative understanding isn't of much use to someone who never develops a muscle memory for computation.

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse since I said something similar in another thread, but MCPS math actually doesn't begin until pre-calc. Unfortunately, it's sink or swim at that point, because suddenly all these un-practiced skills are expected to be solid. Which means a lot of material crammed into one year.

Interesting about rationalizing the radical. Will have to ask my kids at the TP magnet. So far, I think we have done pretty well w/ math despite 2.0. I do not get why doing something 3 ways and talking about = greater understanding. Sometimes repetition leads to greater understanding, and they get little of that. I have noticed that many worksheets leave little room to "show your work." I am a big fan of working problems in steps -- that's how you understand them, not by talking about them. But my youngest works an algebra problem condensing 3 steps into 1 w/o showing what she is doing to each side of the equation to keep balance. I think that is the way to understand math.

And, the math on the middle school test (at least up until this year) is completely opposite of what MCPS teaches. If a kid takes time and does thing 5 different ways, they run out of time on the test. (I also have issues w/ that test, & I'm glad they ditched it -- the HS math test made much more sense).

Anyway, I think my kids are well prepared in math b/c they have had amazing teachers (even in HGC, the teacher augmented and add a lot). My kids did have to learn times tables I think to 16 and powers (memorized). And, now in TP magnet, it has been rigorous (though I wish the used more steps to mentally solidify what they are doing to an equation & why -- that's the why, not writing a paragraph)!!!

I agree getting kids to write out their steps concisely is a challenge as it takes some maturity to appreciate. I don't doubt that the magnets are a good preparation, but there are 36,000 middle schoolers in MCPS and what 600 magnet math students? My oldest had an excellent HGC math teacher but went the humanities route. She's never been excited about math but she's a hard worker and completely capable. Since passing through the CC math sequence she's had a lot of catching up to do. A lot of MCPS students are being underserved by this curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, lots of "Mom-work" going on here. But we knew that would be the case and opted for MCPS over privates since I kind of have the time to stay on top of it.

This was not the case when we bought back in 2010. MCPS was like a different school district. Everyone with kids there (I had worked at Lockheed) were super happy. Then in 2013, ppl started looking at privates if their kids were just starting, or rejoicing that their kid was already at Churchill, WJ, or Whitman and getting out in 4-6 years, bypassing Common Core.

There's nothing like people condemning a thing without having any personal experience of it, is there?

DP here.

What are you talking about??

The PP said she has kids in MCPS.

The PP is citing the opinions of people whose children were in private school or in high school.

i wrote it. Lived in dc since 2004, worked at Lockheed Martin HQ in north bethesda, bought a house in Bethesda when we had kids, had done a decent amount of diligence of schools, colleagues were very happy with MCPS UNTIL 2013, then I heard all negative diligence and aspects of MCPS, so we do a ton of science camps, math workbooks, spanish at 8am and sports since MCPS does zero spanish, zero sports, zero science except some reading modules, and BS "math." My other colleagues at Lockheed do private or a lot of supplementing like we do. Overall, I wish we hadn't bothered to move to Bethesda, would have done the same Momwork in DC.