Colleges to Look At Suggestions - Biology major
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Anonymous
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Speaking of this whole LAC vs. university business, I know of one student from Arizona (where I used to live) who turned down Yale, Stanford, and MIT for Pomona. (http://azdailysun.com/sports/high-school/npa-s-wayment-steele-signs-with-pomona-college/article_67db9983-7dec-538f-8135-dd93580cb52b.html)
She went onto have an extremely rich research-based career at the school, ultimately going onto become a Churchill Scholar (top undergrad distinction for a STEM student). Her accomplishments are detailed here: https://www.pomona.edu/news/2015/01/29-hannah-wayment-steele-15-awarded-prestigious-churchill-scholarship-cambridge She also received the Goldwater, another prestigious science distinction. I looked her up just now and it seems that she went onto a PhD in Chemistry at Stanford after her year at Cambridge. Extremely impressive stuff. One anecdote, I know, but it has stuck with me for a while. When I first read the article, my thought was- seriously? Pomona? I looked them up thinking there was some merit scholarship that could explain it, and there wasn't. How could anyone turn down STEM powerhouse Stanford or MIT for some tiny liberal arts college? Academic excellence in the liberal arts...how could one get better than Yale? A few years later, someone posted Hannah's Churchill article on Facebook, and after reading it I realized her choice of where she went didn't affect her prospects. Clearly, she was insightful enough to know of the opportunities to seek out and the path to move toward in setting her up for the most coveted paths possible with a science degree. No judgement call to be made here, but if a highly talented STEM student told me they preferred a LAC to a prominent research U, I'd think back to Hannah and feel like they could get as strong of an experience at either. |
Anonymous
| Thank you for that constructive and inspiring story. |
Anonymous
Apparently your liberal arts degree didn't serve you well. I never said that LACs can't have adequate research opportunities. In fact, I even posted that it looks like Pomona might have such opportunities. I said DO NOT attend a school with the intention of pursuing a PhD in a lab science UNLESS it has adequate research opportunities. Some LACs (perhaps even most in your top 10) may meet this threshold. Many others won't. I don't care what crap statistics you cite. I know what it takes to be well prepared for grad school in the lab sciences. I have the degree. You're talking out of your ass. |
Anonymous
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Sigh, now we are back into the petty ego battle.
Get a life you two. Really, you must be something more meaningful that you could do with your time. |
Anonymous
If you actually read the article, you'll note that she started lab research as a freshman and has peer reviewed publications. Bingo. That's how you succeed. Don't go to a school without such opportunities. |
Anonymous
| Can we please stop the data-slinging tangent and move on? |
Anonymous
I find it funny that you insinuate you know anything about my qualifications. You've been caught perpetuating misleading narratives, and when called out about it, you have the audacity to claim you didn't? Thankfully, as you know very well in the science world, there is a public record for statements made & arguments presented, and peer-reviewed assessment to judge the legitimacy of your claims. Going back to your posting history: 6:05- " These opportunities don't exist ar non-research universities. Those students usually get any research experience they can by doing a single NSF REU (National Science Foundation Research Experience For Undergraduates) or the equivalent the summer between their junior and senior year. This isn't enough. Those students don't have the publications or connections to get into top grad programs. They don't have enough experience to know what sort of research they ultimately want to study. My guess is most of them go to med school (though publications really help with that admission too) or move into other fields. I don't recall a single student from any of those LAC schools in my grad program." 13:15- "LACs weren’t showing up at all in the top 50 producers of S&E PHDs. Which didn’t seem a fair representation of their role in science education. " I then made a point that it was silly to look at individual schools due to the considerable population gap, yet when looking at several schools together, they did in fact produce as many S&E PhDs despite cumulatively being smaller than some ubiquitous universities. 16:01- "All three require as much research experience as you can muster. You want to use undergraduate years to get this experience. You want to try out labs to see what kind of work you like. You can't do this at small schools where the only "research" that is being done is into science education. " Again. Virtually every national LAC, not just the top 10, offers research opportunities. Faculties involved with research and students who can get involved from their first semester. You are trying to generalize small schools that don't offer research when those sort of schools are a sliver. The High Impact Practices clearly shows that LACs as a classification are a standout for the percent of students who do research. You keep making a point about a hypothetical which doesn't define these schools. I went to the bottom half of the U.S. News rankings and just searched those schools + research. It's in every college I looked up. And yes, independent/novel research, not pre-directed/repeat research. https://www.union.edu/academic/research/ http://www.hws.edu/academics/undergrad_ops.aspx https://www.beloit.edu/summerprograms/research/ https://www.ursinus.edu/academics/biology/research/ https://www.drew.edu/biology-department/about-us/research-internships/ http://www.goucher.edu/learn/undergraduate-programs/biological-sciences/research-opportunities For what it's worth, I never once disagreed with your perspective about what it takes to get into a top graduate school. Find me some proof I did. I agree with you that research is essential and it is important to get involved ASAP. The only thing I did was correct you on your misleading statements about small colleges, which could lead people to think that they are poor choices for a STEM education. This is not true. |
Anonymous
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Make. It. Stop.
Enough already. |
Anonymous
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OP, to summarize...a top 10 university or top 10 LAC will give her infinite career possibilities. Not sure why a multi-page thread and piles of statistics were required to prove that, but now you have them just to be extra sure.
Barring her having those options, a university with solid research opportunities in her area of interest will give her the most options in the long run. I, personally, would think long and hard before sending her to a lower-ranked LAC if she's interested in STEM with the possibility of pursuing a PhD. FWIW, as someone with an HYPS STEM PhD, when the time comes I would have her think long and hard about pursuing a STEM PhD regardless...particularly one in the life sciences. That's neither here nor there for you at this point, but something to keep in the back of your mind. |
Anonymous
Statistics guy is an idiot. |
Anonymous
You are ignorant. |
Anonymous
| pp, there was a story told. It was a journey of discovery. |
Anonymous
| My dc is also hoping to major in Bio and go on to pursue a Phd and go into research and most likely become a professor. He is really hoping for a LAC because he wants the opportunity to learn from professors he can build a relationship with and aspire to be like...but the top ones likely won't take him with a 3.5 UW and 30 ACT. Any suggestions for LAC with great bio departments that would take a very focused and determined kid with less than stellar stats? |
Anonymous
What kind of bio? Many of the colleges that change lives would work. |
Anonymous
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Allegheny
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