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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I'm not calling you out but rather the one person who stated liberal art colleges have nonexistent research opportunities (false) or do not prepare their grads for PhDs (also false given the statistics reflect PhD recipients, not entering students). [/quote]Apparently your liberal arts degree didn't serve you well.  I never said that LACs can't have adequate research opportunities.  In fact, I even posted that it looks like Pomona might have such opportunities.  I said DO NOT attend a school with the intention of pursuing a PhD in a lab science UNLESS it has adequate research opportunities.  Some LACs (perhaps even most in your top 10) may meet this threshold.  Many others won't.

I don't care what crap statistics you cite.  I know what it takes to be well prepared for grad school in the lab sciences. I have the degree.  You're talking out of your ass.[/quote]

I find it funny that you insinuate you know anything about my qualifications. You've been caught perpetuating misleading narratives, and when called out about it, you have the audacity to claim you didn't? Thankfully, as you know very well in the science world, there is a public record for statements made & arguments presented, and peer-reviewed assessment to judge the legitimacy of your claims. Going back to your posting history:

6:05- " These opportunities don't exist ar non-research universities. Those students usually get any research experience they can by doing a single NSF REU (National Science Foundation Research Experience For Undergraduates) or the equivalent the summer between their junior and senior year. This isn't enough. Those students don't have the publications or connections to get into top grad programs. They don't have enough experience to know what sort of research they ultimately want to study. My guess is most of them go to med school (though publications really help with that admission too) or move into other fields. I don't recall a single student from any of those LAC schools in my grad program."

13:15- "LACs weren’t showing up at all in the top 50 producers of S&E PHDs. Which didn’t seem a fair representation of their role in science education. " I then made a point that it was silly to look at individual schools due to the considerable population gap, yet when looking at several schools together, they did in fact produce as many S&E PhDs  despite cumulatively being smaller than some ubiquitous universities.

16:01- "All three require as much research experience as you can muster. You want to use undergraduate years to get this experience. You want to try out labs to see what kind of work you like. You can't do this at small schools where the only "research" that is being done is into science education. " Again. Virtually every national LAC, not just the top 10, offers research opportunities. Faculties involved with research and students who can get involved from their first semester. You are trying to generalize small schools that don't offer research when those sort of schools are a sliver. The High Impact Practices clearly shows that LACs as a classification are a standout for the percent of students who do research. You keep making a point about a hypothetical which doesn't define these schools. I went to the bottom half of the U.S. News rankings and just searched those schools + research. It's in every college I looked up. And yes, independent/novel research, not pre-directed/repeat research. https://www.union.edu/academic/research/  http://www.hws.edu/academics/undergrad_ops.aspx  https://www.beloit.edu/summerprograms/research/ https://www.ursinus.edu/academics/biology/research/ https://www.drew.edu/biology-department/about-us/research-internships/ http://www.goucher.edu/learn/undergraduate-programs/biological-sciences/research-opportunities

For what it's worth, I never once disagreed with your perspective about what it takes to get into a top graduate school. Find me some proof I did. I agree with you that research is essential and it is important to get involved ASAP. The only thing I did was correct you on your misleading statements about small colleges, which could lead people to think that they are poor choices for a STEM education. This is not true. [/quote]

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