An excellent analysis of one of the key factors that cost Hillary the election

[Anonymous]

The KKK's membership may be 1/2 of 1% but the problem is that half of the Republicans are unwilling to admit so many things, for example that the ugly truth that every year hundreds of bonafide and vicious hate crimes are being committed against minorities, and are unwilling to acknowledge that it's an insult to the flag of the United States to go around flying Confederate or neo-Nazi flags. They might not be card-carrying members of the KKK but they are for all intents fully sympathetic to the KKK.

That is absolutely wrong. It is simply what you wish to believe.

And, if you want to see who is committing crimes against minorities, you need only look at the statistics. But, that would not fit your storyboard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have lived in 3 of those states. People are really really intolerant of different people. It is scary.

I lived in pa. Lived there for forty years. People are very warm. I grew up when Vietnamese were welcomed at ft indiantown gap. All the churches helped place the immigrants

What people don't like is the overwhelming immigration when there're are not enough jobs Is that so hard for educated elites in Bethesda to understand????

DP. I think it kind of is? The liberal elite don't typically feel the brunt or downside of the immigration policies they favor.

I think you're wrong. The downside of leaving immigration unsolved is the crazy amount of human and drug trafficking that goes on in favor of the cheap labor that Republicans want. If you want a secure border and strict enforcement of immigration laws, the most effective way to do that it go after employers who hire them. Make them prove they're hiring legal workers and make them pay a living wage. Make it all above ground so the workers can pay taxes on the wages they make and reap the benefit of living peacefully in the places where they labor.

What's so hard about that? Oh, right. Going after employers who hire illegal labor and may or may not pay slave wages. We can't do that to "job creators."

I'm with you for most of your post. But you're fooling yourself if you think it's only the Republican establishment that wants the cheap labor. It's the entire ruling class - Rs and Ds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This remains a challenge for the Democrats: how to be tolerant and accepting of immigrants who form a key part of their support but not to alienate most of middle America who are white and still represent the majority of the voters.

The key might be not being tolerant of ILLEGAL immigration. People all over this country are very tolerant of people of different races. “White middle America,” as you call it, are not tolerant of illegal immigrants.

Do you live in the same America as I do?

And, as the child of legal immigrants who grew up right next to one of the areas discussed in that article, I disagree with your assessment that "White middle America" is tolerant of legal immigration of non-whites.

There are great things about the US...and in many ways we are a more tolerant society than most. But there is rampant racism and xenophobia in this country as well. Ask any non-white, wherever they grew up, and they will tell you.

DP. Would you mind please identifying a few of the countries that are more racially tolerant and less xenophobic than the US? Just curious.

I didn't say there were others. I said that we might be less xenophobic and racist than other places, but Americans are very much both as well.

It's a problem for Americans like me, who are not white and who is obviously a descendant of recent immigrants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have lived in 3 of those states. People are really really intolerant of different people. It is scary.

I lived in pa. Lived there for forty years. People are very warm. I grew up when Vietnamese were welcomed at ft indiantown gap. All the churches helped place the immigrants

What people don't like is the overwhelming immigration when there're are not enough jobs Is that so hard for educated elites in Bethesda to understand????

NP - I grew up in Western PA and have lived in Bethesda for the past 27 years. I haven't forgot my roots and unlike many of my neighbors in Bethesda, they did forget their roots once they gain wealth. I was taught tolerance at a young age which I still practice to this day. I have noticed many around here were the same up until the past 8 years the pendulum swung too far. This is what my elite neighbors in Bethesda don't understand, and never will.

Out of curiosity, what race/ethnicity are both of you PA people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Immigration was helpful to Trump because he has convinced blue collar workers that immigrants are the reason they aren't making more money.

But that's not true, and eventually they will figure it out.

I'm not so sure about that.

In the meantime, trends are that inaccessible health care has blue collar workers sick and dying at a faster rate. The irony of racism and xenophobia is that minorities and immigrants are in a better position to survive and pull ahead. It doesn't look like wealthier white people care much about the fate of poor white people - and there are more poor white people in this country than any other demographic.

What do you think are the chances of blue collar workers figuring that out? I'd say Trump has done more to progress their demise than any other president ever. Antipathy and contempt for poor whites only seems to be growing. If this forum is any indication, they seem determined to help that along.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have lived in 3 of those states. People are really really intolerant of different people. It is scary.

I lived in pa. Lived there for forty years. People are very warm. I grew up when Vietnamese were welcomed at ft indiantown gap. All the churches helped place the immigrants

What people don't like is the overwhelming immigration when there're are not enough jobs Is that so hard for educated elites in Bethesda to understand????

DP. I think it kind of is? The liberal elite don't typically feel the brunt or downside of the immigration policies they favor.

I think you're wrong. The downside of leaving immigration unsolved is the crazy amount of human and drug trafficking that goes on in favor of the cheap labor that Republicans want. If you want a secure border and strict enforcement of immigration laws, the most effective way to do that it go after employers who hire them. Make them prove they're hiring legal workers and make them pay a living wage. Make it all above ground so the workers can pay taxes on the wages they make and reap the benefit of living peacefully in the places where they labor.

What's so hard about that? Oh, right. Going after employers who hire illegal labor and may or may not pay slave wages. We can't do that to "job creators."

I'm with you for most of your post. But you're fooling yourself if you think it's only the Republican establishment that wants the cheap labor. It's the entire ruling class - Rs and Ds.

The establishment goes for whatever their funders want - and you're right. Those funders don't care who gets their money, so long as they get the job done and keep the immigration debate exactly where it is - a debate and not policy.

Their money does go further with Republicans, though. That's not an accident. Amnesty would definitely create more Democratic voters, and they're more likely to vote for things like health care, education, living wages and workers' rights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The KKK's membership may be 1/2 of 1% but the problem is that half of the Republicans are unwilling to admit so many things, for example that the ugly truth that every year hundreds of bonafide and vicious hate crimes are being committed against minorities, and are unwilling to acknowledge that it's an insult to the flag of the United States to go around flying Confederate or neo-Nazi flags. They might not be card-carrying members of the KKK but they are for all intents fully sympathetic to the KKK.

That is absolutely wrong. It is simply what you wish to believe.

And, if you want to see who is committing crimes against minorities, you need only look at the statistics. But, that would not fit your storyboard.

I wish it were wrong. It's not, and you are naive or underinformed or not well traveled in the US if you don't know that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have lived in 3 of those states. People are really really intolerant of different people. It is scary.

I lived in pa. Lived there for forty years. People are very warm. I grew up when Vietnamese were welcomed at ft indiantown gap. All the churches helped place the immigrants

What people don't like is the overwhelming immigration when there're are not enough jobs Is that so hard for educated elites in Bethesda to understand????

NP - I grew up in Western PA and have lived in Bethesda for the past 27 years. I haven't forgot my roots and unlike many of my neighbors in Bethesda, they did forget their roots once they gain wealth. I was taught tolerance at a young age which I still practice to this day. I have noticed many around here were the same up until the past 8 years the pendulum swung too far. This is what my elite neighbors in Bethesda don't understand, and never will.

Out of curiosity, what race/ethnicity are both of you PA people?

I lived in rural PA for 20 years and as a white person saw tons of racism toward blacks, jews, asians, lgbt, muslims and others. Not hate crimes, but tons of racist epithets and stereotypes, job discrimination, housing discrimination, et cetera. Pretending that it doesn't exist and doesn't happen is not going to fly. Take that stance with me, try and make that claim with me and I will say straight up that you either have no idea what you are talking about or you're lying and either way I have no patience for you at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This remains a challenge for the Democrats: how to be tolerant and accepting of immigrants who form a key part of their support but not to alienate most of middle America who are white and still represent the majority of the voters.

The key might be not being tolerant of ILLEGAL immigration. People all over this country are very tolerant of people of different races. “White middle America,” as you call it, are not tolerant of illegal immigrants.

Do you live in the same America as I do?

And, as the child of legal immigrants who grew up right next to one of the areas discussed in that article, I disagree with your assessment that "White middle America" is tolerant of legal immigration of non-whites.

There are great things about the US...and in many ways we are a more tolerant society than most. But there is rampant racism and xenophobia in this country as well. Ask any non-white, wherever they grew up, and they will tell you.

DP. Would you mind please identifying a few of the countries that are more racially tolerant and less xenophobic than the US? Just curious.

I didn't say there were others. I said that we might be less xenophobic and racist than other places, but Americans are very much both as well.

It's a problem for Americans like me, who are not white and who is obviously a descendant of recent immigrants.

Sometimes I find it's helpful to keep a sense of perspective. Racism and xenophobia are certainly still problems in America. At the same time, it's perhaps telling that you can't easily come up with lots of countries that are better, right?

My DH is not white. His mom immigrated here legally. They both recognize that America has a ways to go to reach racial equality, but are proud of America and support enforcing restrictions on immigration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The KKK's membership may be 1/2 of 1% but the problem is that half of the Republicans are unwilling to admit so many things, for example that the ugly truth that every year hundreds of bonafide and vicious hate crimes are being committed against minorities, and are unwilling to acknowledge that it's an insult to the flag of the United States to go around flying Confederate or neo-Nazi flags. They might not be card-carrying members of the KKK but they are for all intents fully sympathetic to the KKK.

That is absolutely wrong. It is simply what you wish to believe.

And, if you want to see who is committing crimes against minorities, you need only look at the statistics. But, that would not fit your storyboard.

I wish it were wrong. It's not, and you are naive or underinformed or not well traveled in the US if you don't know that.

DP, but who are you to determine what is right and what is wrong? To me, it is clear that half of the Republicans are NOT fully sympathetic to the KKK, and It is ridiculous and inflammatory to make such an accusation. Is the only way you can rationalize your loss to talk yourself into believing that half of all conservatives fully support the KKK? Just listen to yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have lived in 3 of those states. People are really really intolerant of different people. It is scary.

I lived in pa. Lived there for forty years. People are very warm. I grew up when Vietnamese were welcomed at ft indiantown gap. All the churches helped place the immigrants

What people don't like is the overwhelming immigration when there're are not enough jobs Is that so hard for educated elites in Bethesda to understand????

NP - I grew up in Western PA and have lived in Bethesda for the past 27 years. I haven't forgot my roots and unlike many of my neighbors in Bethesda, they did forget their roots once they gain wealth. I was taught tolerance at a young age which I still practice to this day. I have noticed many around here were the same up until the past 8 years the pendulum swung too far. This is what my elite neighbors in Bethesda don't understand, and never will.

Out of curiosity, what race/ethnicity are both of you PA people?

I lived in rural PA for 20 years and as a white person saw tons of racism toward blacks, jews, asians, lgbt, muslims and others. Not hate crimes, but tons of racist epithets and stereotypes, job discrimination, housing discrimination, et cetera. Pretending that it doesn't exist and doesn't happen is not going to fly. Take that stance with me, try and make that claim with me and I will say straight up that you either have no idea what you are talking about or you're lying and either way I have no patience for you at all.

DP. The three most racist, antisemtic people I ever met all came - unbelievably - from the same small PA town. Maybe it's something in the water up there.

[Anonymous]

I wish it were wrong. It's not, and you are naive or underinformed or not well traveled in the US if you don't know that.

PP to whom you are replying. No. You are the one who is underinformed. For the record, I am extremely well traveled and have lived in a number of places in the US and abroad.

Sure, there are racists--but to say that most Republicans are sympathetic with KKK and racist is just dead wrong. It shows that you live in a bubble if you really think that. And, I ask you again to examine the statistics and see who is committing the most crimes against minorities. (Hint, it's not Republicans--in fact, it's not even the KKK.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I wish it were wrong. It's not, and you are naive or underinformed or not well traveled in the US if you don't know that.

PP to whom you are replying. No. You are the one who is underinformed. For the record, I am extremely well traveled and have lived in a number of places in the US and abroad.

Sure, there are racists--but to say that most Republicans are sympathetic with KKK and racist is just dead wrong. It shows that you live in a bubble if you really think that. And, I ask you again to examine the statistics and see who is committing the most crimes against minorities. (Hint, it's not Republicans--in fact, it's not even the KKK.)

Nobody here said "most" - that is your own word. What was however said is that many are. And that still stands as absolutely true. You are in far more of a bubble than I if you don't know that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I wish it were wrong. It's not, and you are naive or underinformed or not well traveled in the US if you don't know that.

PP to whom you are replying. No. You are the one who is underinformed. For the record, I am extremely well traveled and have lived in a number of places in the US and abroad.

Sure, there are racists--but to say that most Republicans are sympathetic with KKK and racist is just dead wrong. It shows that you live in a bubble if you really think that. And, I ask you again to examine the statistics and see who is committing the most crimes against minorities. (Hint, it's not Republicans--in fact, it's not even the KKK.)

Statistics omit crimes of discrimination - which are just as harmful to minority populations as violent crime. And let's not say anything about the failure of law enforcement to actually protect minorities, okay? It's the reason violent crime flourishes among all poorer populations, but it's just a little bit easier for poor white people to get away with it. (That might have something to do with their extraordinary need for guns.)

But white people get discriminated against, too - by other white people, no less - so we neither enforce nor examine those crimes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The KKK's membership may be 1/2 of 1% but the problem is that half of the Republicans are unwilling to admit so many things, for example that the ugly truth that every year hundreds of bonafide and vicious hate crimes are being committed against minorities, and are unwilling to acknowledge that it's an insult to the flag of the United States to go around flying Confederate or neo-Nazi flags. They might not be card-carrying members of the KKK but they are for all intents fully sympathetic to the KKK.

That is absolutely wrong. It is simply what you wish to believe.

And, if you want to see who is committing crimes against minorities, you need only look at the statistics. But, that would not fit your storyboard.

I wish it were wrong. It's not, and you are naive or underinformed or not well traveled in the US if you don't know that.

DP, but who are you to determine what is right and what is wrong? To me, it is clear that half of the Republicans are NOT fully sympathetic to the KKK, and It is ridiculous and inflammatory to make such an accusation. Is the only way you can rationalize your loss to talk yourself into believing that half of all conservatives fully support the KKK? Just listen to yourself.

WRONG. There is TONS of racism in rural America. I have PERSONALLY WITNESSED IT HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF TIMES. You again either a.) CLUELESS/OBLIVIOUS or b.) LYING/COVERING. There IS NO C.) Which is it? A or B?