What's good about IB programs?

[Anonymous]

New poster. It sounds like the IB diploma is very rigorous and a good option for a very specific type of student. It's too bad that FCPS doesn't put it at a single high school and make it a TJ-style program for the liberal arts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: New poster. It sounds like the IB diploma is very rigorous and a good option for a very specific type of student. It's too bad that FCPS doesn't put it at a single high school and make it a TJ-style program for the liberal arts.

So kids with all that work and TOK till six in the evening one day a week can get home even later? No, thanks. That just keeps it easy for rich kids in rich neighborhoods while poor kids in IB schools would have to add two hours of additional bus riding into their days. And many work as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: New poster. It sounds like the IB diploma is very rigorous and a good option for a very specific type of student. It's too bad that FCPS doesn't put it at a single high school and make it a TJ-style program for the liberal arts.

So kids with all that work and TOK till six in the evening one day a week can get home even later? No, thanks. That just keeps it easy for rich kids in rich neighborhoods while poor kids in IB schools would have to add two hours of additional bus riding into their days. And many work as well.

They'd have access to AP, like the kids in the top schools in the county. The incredibly low IB diploma rate at the IB schools in FCPS, particularly the poorer ones, contradicts your suggestion that a lot of poor kids are bothering with TOK.

What a scam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: New poster. It sounds like the IB diploma is very rigorous and a good option for a very specific type of student. It's too bad that FCPS doesn't put it at a single high school and make it a TJ-style program for the liberal arts.

So kids with all that work and TOK till six in the evening one day a week can get home even later? No, thanks. That just keeps it easy for rich kids in rich neighborhoods while poor kids in IB schools would have to add two hours of additional bus riding into their days. And many work as well.

They'd have access to AP, like the kids in the top schools in the county. The incredibly low IB diploma rate at the IB schools in FCPS, particularly the poorer ones, contradicts your suggestion that a lot of poor kids are bothering with TOK.

What a scam.

Plus the additional expense to the taxpayers.

[Anonymous]

Did the posters read the OP's question. She didn't ask what's wrong with IB programs.

I actually am following this thread because we are trying to decide whether staying in an IB school makes sense based on our kids strengths.

It sounds like the students write a lot. How is this accomplished? Because in my experience writing is very grading intensive.

Is the theory of knowledge course an actual after school class? or is it a class students take during the day.

Could someone share what a typical course path would look like for an IB kid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: New poster. It sounds like the IB diploma is very rigorous and a good option for a very specific type of student. It's too bad that FCPS doesn't put it at a single high school and make it a TJ-style program for the liberal arts.

So kids with all that work and TOK till six in the evening one day a week can get home even later? No, thanks. That just keeps it easy for rich kids in rich neighborhoods while poor kids in IB schools would have to add two hours of additional bus riding into their days. And many work as well.

They'd have access to AP, like the kids in the top schools in the county. The incredibly low IB diploma rate at the IB schools in FCPS, particularly the poorer ones, contradicts your suggestion that a lot of poor kids are bothering with TOK.

What a scam.

Ignorance is a bigger scam. Just send better teachers to low performing and IB schools and you won't have to bus my kids someplace else for a better education.

[Anonymous]

My son graduated from an IB school. He did not do the full diploma, because he just isn't that kind of ultra motivated, knowledge hungry kind of student across the board. Neither of us thought he needed to jump through all the extra hoops for the diploma, and we were both thankful he did not have to juggle the EE deadlines during the fall of his senior year, which was hectic enough. He did take all IB classes, a mix of HL and SL. HL courses are two years, which limits the variety of coursework you can take. For him, SL worked out well in providing both the depth of exploration and flexibility to try new topics.

I do think the IB courses include a much more personal touch than many others offered at his school. I don't think they do as much "teaching to the test," as AP courses do.

[Anonymous]

^ I'm the PP. I meant to add that ToK in his school replaces arts elective for two semesters, and that was another big drawback to the idea of him pursuing the full diploma. He wasn't willing to give up his arts elective, which was very important to his school experience. But the tradeoff is that he didn't get the intense directed writing experience that would have been helpful in college. He is attending a university with a curriculum that includes writing intensives so he'll get it there, luckily.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
It sounds like the students write a lot. How is this accomplished? Because in my experience writing is very grading intensive.

It is. The process is iterative, and while I have always known that teachers work hard, I was still shocked to see how much commenting (from the teacher) and revising (by my kid, who is a good writer) each paper took.

[Anonymous]

for 9:12

TOK can be taken during the school day or after school - our kids chose to take it after school to preserve an elective class during the school day. TOK runs for two half semesters (3rd and 4th quarters Junior year and 1st and 2nd quarter Senior year - 3 hrs/wk, in 1 or over 2 days). We found it to be flexible enough for sports participation and an elective during the day but it makes for a full schedule during that time.

Writing is graded and many of the kids are self-motivated enough to seek out additional comments/guidance from the teachers. Our experience was that teachers were very helpful, available and interested to help students. Having taught for several years, my experience is that a motivated student brings out the best in teachers.

I can't address the concerns of those who object to costs (I haven't seen the cost difference explained) or whether the program is structured correctly in the various schools - although I've described the very successful programs at Marshall and Robinson. Maybe you could talk offline to the MoCo IB teacher who commented earlier - their center based program is highly sought after and well supported by the community. I do have experience with the non diploma IB students and it is patently absurd to claim that they are excluded or dismissed - this is not true. The whole point of IB is to foster a love of learning and to train the student to become a thinker - one who can teach/learn in any environment/skill set/culture. This is very different from teaching to the test. However, everyone has particular aims & objectives for what they want their student/selves to learn - so we have private and parochial and public schools with a huge variety of opportunities - you choose. We're very lucky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:for 9:12

TOK can be taken during the school day or after school - our kids chose to take it after school to preserve an elective class during the school day. TOK runs for two half semesters (3rd and 4th quarters Junior year and 1st and 2nd quarter Senior year - 3 hrs/wk, in 1 or over 2 days). We found it to be flexible enough for sports participation and an elective during the day but it makes for a full schedule during that time.

Writing is graded and many of the kids are self-motivated enough to seek out additional comments/guidance from the teachers. Our experience was that teachers were very helpful, available and interested to help students. Having taught for several years, my experience is that a motivated student brings out the best in teachers.

I can't address the concerns of those who object to costs (I haven't seen the cost difference explained) or whether the program is structured correctly in the various schools - although I've described the very successful programs at Marshall and Robinson. Maybe you could talk offline to the MoCo IB teacher who commented earlier - their center based program is highly sought after and well supported by the community. I do have experience with the non diploma IB students and it is patently absurd to claim that they are excluded or dismissed - this is not true. The whole point of IB is to foster a love of learning and to train the student to become a thinker - one who can teach/learn in any environment/skill set/culture. This is very different from teaching to the test. However, everyone has particular aims & objectives for what they want their student/selves to learn - so we have private and parochial and public schools with a huge variety of opportunities - you choose. We're very lucky.

We had a non-diploma student at an IB school and were definitely made to feel second-class.

The icing on the cake was a graduation where the IB coordinator (the predecessor of the current one) spoke longer than either the principal or the keynote speaker. She began by asking all the IB diploma students to stand for a round of applause. She then asked any student who'd taken an IB class to stand as well for more applause. Those who hadn't taken an IB class were left sitting in their seats. She then launched into a long rambling speech about how IB created a "community of learners," "global citizens," etc. It was a bunch of jargon-laden nonsense. We moved our younger kids to an AP school that was much better in every respect and where people weren't expected to drink the IB kool-aid.

[Anonymous]

I don't have any problem with the IB program in and of itself; what I have a problem with is posters insisting that the IB program is more rigorous than AP and requires more writing. The AP English and social studies classes at schools I've worked in required plenty of writing. I'm not going to say they require more than IB, but they certainly do not require less. The writing required in an IB science class is ONE lab report (the IA). Do you think honors and AP science classes don't require at least one lab report? Of course they do.

If you have a student who is going to take a number of advanced courses either roughly equal to or less than what is required for the IB diploma, the programs may be of similar rigor. However, the most advanced students are held back by the IB diploma. The limit of six subjects makes it impossible to take advanced-level courses in, say, music and computer science. Or biology, chemistry, and psychology. A student in an AP program could take these combinations of classes (and still take advanced courses in all the core subjects as well).

The fact that you are not allowed to take HL exams unless you are a senior is also problematic. Students who are on track to take IB Math HL in 11th grade either have to slow down so they take it in 12th grade, or take the class in 11th grade but delay the exam to 12th grade, neither of which is desirable.

[Anonymous]

11:50. This is very informative. The math class seems especially problematic. IB has been around for awhile. Is there no other work around? A lot of kids are fast tracked in math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:for 9:12

TOK can be taken during the school day or after school - our kids chose to take it after school to preserve an elective class during the school day. TOK runs for two half semesters (3rd and 4th quarters Junior year and 1st and 2nd quarter Senior year - 3 hrs/wk, in 1 or over 2 days). We found it to be flexible enough for sports participation and an elective during the day but it makes for a full schedule during that time.

Writing is graded and many of the kids are self-motivated enough to seek out additional comments/guidance from the teachers. Our experience was that teachers were very helpful, available and interested to help students. Having taught for several years, my experience is that a motivated student brings out the best in teachers.

I can't address the concerns of those who object to costs (I haven't seen the cost difference explained) or whether the program is structured correctly in the various schools - although I've described the very successful programs at Marshall and Robinson. Maybe you could talk offline to the MoCo IB teacher who commented earlier - their center based program is highly sought after and well supported by the community. I do have experience with the non diploma IB students and it is patently absurd to claim that they are excluded or dismissed - this is not true. The whole point of IB is to foster a love of learning and to train the student to become a thinker - one who can teach/learn in any environment/skill set/culture. This is very different from teaching to the test. However, everyone has particular aims & objectives for what they want their student/selves to learn - so we have private and parochial and public schools with a huge variety of opportunities - you choose. We're very lucky.

There is not an after-school option for ToK at my children's school. I don't want those on the fence to think that's the rule everywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:11:50. This is very informative. The math class seems especially problematic. IB has been around for awhile. Is there no other work around? A lot of kids are fast tracked in math.

How fast does your kid need to go? IB students can take calculus in 11th grade.