What's good about IB programs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know someone who works at College Board in the AP program. He said IB is better.

I've had kids at both IB and AP schools. AP schools are much better environments for most students.

[Anonymous]

One of my kids has started on extended essay. Had to consult with assigned advisor several times. In a school with too much meh teaching, the feedback from this advisor was intelligent and Invigorating. I have no doubt the process for full diploma will continue to be stressful, but I think learning to manage the extended essay along with the daily IB work may be one of the most useful things gained from a less-than-stellar HS. Both, the satisfaction of accomplishment, the knowing you can handle large, long term independent projects and the ability to have some choices in what the research in-depth. Same kid's math paper will be totally different field than extended essay, but topics were student' choice.

[Anonymous]

FWIW, Lake Braddock (AAP) gets more pupil placements than Robinson (IB). You'd think it ought to be the other way around given that Robinson is the closest IB school to multiple AP schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, Lake Braddock (AAP) gets more pupil placements than Robinson (IB). You'd think it ought to be the other way around given that Robinson is the closest IB school to multiple AP schools.

But that's misleading. A lot of the LBSS pupil placements are AAP kids who are using AP as an excuse to stay at LBSS for high school, with their friends. Many of these are not kids placing out Robinson because they have made an independent assessment of AP vs IB. It's well past time to just put an AAP Center in Robinson. The LBSS AAP to Robinson feeder pattern is disruptive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a teacher in Montgomery County, but I came across this thread and wanted to offer a little bit of information. We have both an MYP (middle years program) and DP (diploma program), but the magnet is only for the DP.

The IB philosophy is one that is student centered and concept driven. It encourages students to become globally minded citizens who think creatively and analytically. The personal project, which students start in 9th and complete in 10th grade, is a research based, months long project that requires students to utilize research and social skills while collaborating with a teacher/supervisor throughout the process in order to create some sort of product. This could be anything from using recycled sailing rope to create dog leashes to donate to shelters, to creating a cookbook that is inspired by your own unique culture and heritage, to writing a short story that depicts what it is like to have severe learning disorders. The extended essay, which starts in 11th grade and concludes in 12th grade, is an ongoing research paper not unlike a college thesis. I've had students research topics ranging from child slavery in the US, to how female characters in Pokemon create empowerment in young girls, to how documentary theatre has incited political movements. Because it's concept driven across all subjects, it allows us to capitalize on cross-curricular learning (a requirement in MYP unit planning). When we teach Of Mice and Men in English, for example, the ninth graders are learning about the Great Depression and the Dust Bowl in history class. When we read A Raisin in the Sun, they are learning about the civil rights movement and housing discrimination.

It's unfortunate that so many parents in FCPS seem dissatisfied with the program, because as a teacher and a parent, I believe in it. It makes me wonder what's going with the teachers, the IB coordinators, and the administration to make so many people so unsatisfied.

This is how an anonymous board can be so misleading. I don't believe that a majority of those in FCPS are dissatisfied. I believe it may be only one or two sour apples who post repeatedly on any thread about IB. I have two kids at an IB high school and I feel that it is a very rigorous and worthwhile program, and so do the other parents I encounter.

You maybe right. This person is relentlessly anti-IB.

No it is not just a couple of people. There are schools with very high percentages of FARMS specifically because of this AP/IB split in the county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a teacher in Montgomery County, but I came across this thread and wanted to offer a little bit of information. We have both an MYP (middle years program) and DP (diploma program), but the magnet is only for the DP.

The IB philosophy is one that is student centered and concept driven. It encourages students to become globally minded citizens who think creatively and analytically. The personal project, which students start in 9th and complete in 10th grade, is a research based, months long project that requires students to utilize research and social skills while collaborating with a teacher/supervisor throughout the process in order to create some sort of product. This could be anything from using recycled sailing rope to create dog leashes to donate to shelters, to creating a cookbook that is inspired by your own unique culture and heritage, to writing a short story that depicts what it is like to have severe learning disorders. The extended essay, which starts in 11th grade and concludes in 12th grade, is an ongoing research paper not unlike a college thesis. I've had students research topics ranging from child slavery in the US, to how female characters in Pokemon create empowerment in young girls, to how documentary theatre has incited political movements. Because it's concept driven across all subjects, it allows us to capitalize on cross-curricular learning (a requirement in MYP unit planning). When we teach Of Mice and Men in English, for example, the ninth graders are learning about the Great Depression and the Dust Bowl in history class. When we read A Raisin in the Sun, they are learning about the civil rights movement and housing discrimination.

It's unfortunate that so many parents in FCPS seem dissatisfied with the program, because as a teacher and a parent, I believe in it. It makes me wonder what's going with the teachers, the IB coordinators, and the administration to make so many people so unsatisfied.

This is how an anonymous board can be so misleading. I don't believe that a majority of those in FCPS are dissatisfied. I believe it may be only one or two sour apples who post repeatedly on any thread about IB. I have two kids at an IB high school and I feel that it is a very rigorous and worthwhile program, and so do the other parents I encounter.

You maybe right. This person is relentlessly anti-IB.

No it is not just a couple of people. There are schools with very high percentages of FARMS specifically because of this AP/IB split in the county.

Nobody really knows how many, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a teacher in Montgomery County, but I came across this thread and wanted to offer a little bit of information. We have both an MYP (middle years program) and DP (diploma program), but the magnet is only for the DP.

The IB philosophy is one that is student centered and concept driven. It encourages students to become globally minded citizens who think creatively and analytically. The personal project, which students start in 9th and complete in 10th grade, is a research based, months long project that requires students to utilize research and social skills while collaborating with a teacher/supervisor throughout the process in order to create some sort of product. This could be anything from using recycled sailing rope to create dog leashes to donate to shelters, to creating a cookbook that is inspired by your own unique culture and heritage, to writing a short story that depicts what it is like to have severe learning disorders. The extended essay, which starts in 11th grade and concludes in 12th grade, is an ongoing research paper not unlike a college thesis. I've had students research topics ranging from child slavery in the US, to how female characters in Pokemon create empowerment in young girls, to how documentary theatre has incited political movements. Because it's concept driven across all subjects, it allows us to capitalize on cross-curricular learning (a requirement in MYP unit planning). When we teach Of Mice and Men in English, for example, the ninth graders are learning about the Great Depression and the Dust Bowl in history class. When we read A Raisin in the Sun, they are learning about the civil rights movement and housing discrimination.

It's unfortunate that so many parents in FCPS seem dissatisfied with the program, because as a teacher and a parent, I believe in it. It makes me wonder what's going with the teachers, the IB coordinators, and the administration to make so many people so unsatisfied.

This is how an anonymous board can be so misleading. I don't believe that a majority of those in FCPS are dissatisfied. I believe it may be only one or two sour apples who post repeatedly on any thread about IB. I have two kids at an IB high school and I feel that it is a very rigorous and worthwhile program, and so do the other parents I encounter.

You maybe right. This person is relentlessly anti-IB.

No it is not just a couple of people. There are schools with very high percentages of FARMS specifically because of this AP/IB split in the county.

I can't think of any high school in FCPS that has benefited from IB, with the possible exception of Marshall, which is an IB school surrounded by AP schools. But the main uptick in Marshall's fortunes is due to growth around Tysons, and there are plenty of people who avoid the district because it has IB.

In South Lakes' case, the school was viewed as failing in the mid 2000s and the School Board engaged in a massive redistricting to shore up its enrollment. Robinson has always served nice areas like Fairfax Station, but its test scores actually are below what you'd expect for a school with such high SES neighborhoods. Some suggest, however, that some of this is due to brighter kids pupil placing to Lake Braddock to stay together with their AAP classmates from middle school.

[Anonymous]

data please! The continued assertions, without context, are highly misleading. Kudos to those who have identified the structural problem with trying to draw meaningful information from an anonymous thread - particularly when a few posters persist in making irresponsible and unsubstantiated claims.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, Lake Braddock (AAP) gets more pupil placements than Robinson (IB). You'd think it ought to be the other way around given that Robinson is the closest IB school to multiple AP schools.

But that's misleading. A lot of the LBSS pupil placements are AAP kids who are using AP as an excuse to stay at LBSS for high school, with their friends. Many of these are not kids placing out Robinson because they have made an independent assessment of AP vs IB. It's well past time to just put an AAP Center in Robinson. The LBSS AAP to Robinson feeder pattern is disruptive.

http://151.188.217.200/fts_drupal_support/dashboard/region1-5transferreport.pdf

Lake Braddock High:

Alt Programs Transfer IN 4
Alt Programs Transfer OUT 16
ESOL Transitional HS Transfer OUT 5
Other Transfer IN 5
SE Transfer OUT 46
Student Transfer Regulation Transfer IN 237
Student Transfer Regulation Transfer OUT 31
TJHSST Transfer OUT 40
Total Transfer IN 277
Total Transfer OUT 152

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:data please! The continued assertions, without context, are highly misleading. Kudos to those who have identified the structural problem with trying to draw meaningful information from an anonymous thread - particularly when a few posters persist in making irresponsible and unsubstantiated claims.

OP here. See, this isn't what I'm asking. If you want a data thread make your own.

What I am looking for is for people who actually experienced the IB program to explain why they liked it (or even didn't). I am having a hard time understanding how it worked from a student's view because it's odd. The faculty mentor, the extended essay and community service assignment and theory of knowledge class aren't discussed in detail when people talk IB beyond saying it's time intensive. I wanted to learn how students did it, what sort of things they did for these projects and what the heck theory of knowledge class is in reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:data please! The continued assertions, without context, are highly misleading. Kudos to those who have identified the structural problem with trying to draw meaningful information from an anonymous thread - particularly when a few posters persist in making irresponsible and unsubstantiated claims.

OP here. See, this isn't what I'm asking. If you want a data thread make your own.

What I am looking for is for people who actually experienced the IB program to explain why they liked it (or even didn't). I am having a hard time understanding how it worked from a student's view because it's odd. The faculty mentor, the extended essay and community service assignment and theory of knowledge class aren't discussed in detail when people talk IB beyond saying it's time intensive. I wanted to learn how students did it, what sort of things they did for these projects and what the heck theory of knowledge class is in reality.

OP, we are not in FX county but the IB curriculum is the same. We liked it because it mirrors our view of what HS education should be (i.e., a lot of reading, a lot of writing, good amount of HW/studying). It is a well-balanced "program" vs individual courses like AP - not saying one is better, just different approach. Some people think the lack of flexibility (since it has a set of requirements) is an issue... I personally don't. The IB approach (while it may lack flexibility for some people) ensures kids are exposed to all types of courses. Kids/teachers build a strong bond over time. My kids loved it. Both kids double majored in college - DC 1 English/Engineering; DC2 Chem/History in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a teacher in Montgomery County, but I came across this thread and wanted to offer a little bit of information. We have both an MYP (middle years program) and DP (diploma program), but the magnet is only for the DP.

The IB philosophy is one that is student centered and concept driven. It encourages students to become globally minded citizens who think creatively and analytically. The personal project, which students start in 9th and complete in 10th grade, is a research based, months long project that requires students to utilize research and social skills while collaborating with a teacher/supervisor throughout the process in order to create some sort of product. This could be anything from using recycled sailing rope to create dog leashes to donate to shelters, to creating a cookbook that is inspired by your own unique culture and heritage, to writing a short story that depicts what it is like to have severe learning disorders. The extended essay, which starts in 11th grade and concludes in 12th grade, is an ongoing research paper not unlike a college thesis. I've had students research topics ranging from child slavery in the US, to how female characters in Pokemon create empowerment in young girls, to how documentary theatre has incited political movements. Because it's concept driven across all subjects, it allows us to capitalize on cross-curricular learning (a requirement in MYP unit planning). When we teach Of Mice and Men in English, for example, the ninth graders are learning about the Great Depression and the Dust Bowl in history class. When we read A Raisin in the Sun, they are learning about the civil rights movement and housing discrimination.

It's unfortunate that so many parents in FCPS seem dissatisfied with the program, because as a teacher and a parent, I believe in it. It makes me wonder what's going with the teachers, the IB coordinators, and the administration to make so many people so unsatisfied.

This is how an anonymous board can be so misleading. I don't believe that a majority of those in FCPS are dissatisfied. I believe it may be only one or two sour apples who post repeatedly on any thread about IB. I have two kids at an IB high school and I feel that it is a very rigorous and worthwhile program, and so do the other parents I encounter.

You maybe right. This person is relentlessly anti-IB.

No it is not just a couple of people. There are schools with very high percentages of FARMS specifically because of this AP/IB split in the county.

There are way more than a couple of people who think that implementation of IB in FCPS has been awful and has allowed students to flee to neighboring schools with preferred demographics. There are also many people who don't like the rigidity of the IB program or its total dominance of the school. An average of 11% of graduates at the IB schools get the IB Diploma - higher at Robinson, South Lakes, and Marshall and lower at Stuart, Lee, Annandale, Edison, and Mt. Vernon. The total number of FCPS IB Diploma graduates every year is about the size of ONE graduating class at a smaller FCPS high school. Do we really need the program at eight schools? Three in the SE section of the county? Costs twice as much as AP. But once a program is entrenched in this county it will never go away.

How many of the IB supporters out there would pupil place to Mt. Vernon if it were made the IB magnet? How much do you love this program?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a teacher in Montgomery County, but I came across this thread and wanted to offer a little bit of information. We have both an MYP (middle years program) and DP (diploma program), but the magnet is only for the DP.

The IB philosophy is one that is student centered and concept driven. It encourages students to become globally minded citizens who think creatively and analytically. The personal project, which students start in 9th and complete in 10th grade, is a research based, months long project that requires students to utilize research and social skills while collaborating with a teacher/supervisor throughout the process in order to create some sort of product. This could be anything from using recycled sailing rope to create dog leashes to donate to shelters, to creating a cookbook that is inspired by your own unique culture and heritage, to writing a short story that depicts what it is like to have severe learning disorders. The extended essay, which starts in 11th grade and concludes in 12th grade, is an ongoing research paper not unlike a college thesis. I've had students research topics ranging from child slavery in the US, to how female characters in Pokemon create empowerment in young girls, to how documentary theatre has incited political movements. Because it's concept driven across all subjects, it allows us to capitalize on cross-curricular learning (a requirement in MYP unit planning). When we teach Of Mice and Men in English, for example, the ninth graders are learning about the Great Depression and the Dust Bowl in history class. When we read A Raisin in the Sun, they are learning about the civil rights movement and housing discrimination.

It's unfortunate that so many parents in FCPS seem dissatisfied with the program, because as a teacher and a parent, I believe in it. It makes me wonder what's going with the teachers, the IB coordinators, and the administration to make so many people so unsatisfied.

This is how an anonymous board can be so misleading. I don't believe that a majority of those in FCPS are dissatisfied. I believe it may be only one or two sour apples who post repeatedly on any thread about IB. I have two kids at an IB high school and I feel that it is a very rigorous and worthwhile program, and so do the other parents I encounter.

You maybe right. This person is relentlessly anti-IB.

No it is not just a couple of people. There are schools with very high percentages of FARMS specifically because of this AP/IB split in the county.

There are way more than a couple of people who think that implementation of IB in FCPS has been awful and has allowed students to flee to neighboring schools with preferred demographics. There are also many people who don't like the rigidity of the IB program or its total dominance of the school. An average of 11% of graduates at the IB schools get the IB Diploma - higher at Robinson, South Lakes, and Marshall and lower at Stuart, Lee, Annandale, Edison, and Mt. Vernon. The total number of FCPS IB Diploma graduates every year is about the size of ONE graduating class at a smaller FCPS high school. Do we really need the program at eight schools? Three in the SE section of the county? Costs twice as much as AP. But once a program is entrenched in this county it will never go away.

How many of the IB supporters out there would pupil place to Mt. Vernon if it were made the IB magnet? How much do you love this program?

Assuming that's a rhetorical question...

[Anonymous]

We love the program. Two kids pupil placed to Marshall. IB is writing intensive. If your student can't write now, s/he will by the end. The underlying philosophy seems to be that writing is the way to achieve and demonstrate clarity of thinking. It can be challenging to achieve the diploma. Many students take IB classes and don't pursue the diploma - they are not ostracized or looked down on. Those pursuing IB are serious about their studies. The level of course rigor is pretty high as evidenced by the success of the students on exams that are graded against students from around the world. The relationship with teachers is very good - IB requires a lot of feedback and discussion. The language requirement (to achieve a 5th yr facility) is a serious impediment to many students achieving the diploma. The CAS hours are not difficult for a normal student involved in sports, scouts, church work, tutoring etc. to comply. The EE is a big paper but given that the student chooses the topic and all IB candidates are actively interested in learning, it is not overly burdensome. The students must be, or become, organized. There is a lot of structure to the program but it also requires that you stay on top of assignments. This is not a program for a student who is not committed to academic learning and to grappling with a broad range of subjects. That requirement to take a broad range of classes may be the biggest difference with AP. The AP student chooses what courses to take. The IB student is more limited in choices as the syllabus requires a broad exposure to various disciplines. An AP student can take the same broad range but is not required to. This appeals to some and not others - be honest about your student's interests and motivations. The Theory of Knowledge course is an intro to epistomology - what do we know and how do we know it? It's very interesting to see high school students grapple with this - and it forces them to present and defend ideas in a critical public forum - kind of like debates.

The program is demanding and is not appropriate for most, or even many, students. It attempts to challenge students who are interested in a broad exposure to the world of ideas, concepts, systems and cultures. It is not for those who don't want to write extensively. It is not for those who wish to focus on STEM or a particular field to the exclusion of others. The diploma candidates are a small group that are very supportive of each other, proud of their efforts, demanding of themselves and others, and have a lot of pride in their accomplishments. The school seems to reciprocate this pride while also respecting those who participate in the Academy and who pursue the general diplomas. I credit the Marshall administration with promoting a very inclusive, respectful and accomplished student body with great pride in each other. We know administrators and families at Robinson who make the same claims for their IB program.

To the OP - get the names of several IB families from somewhere (the school coordinator or the PTSA) and interview them and their kids. Make an assessment of your student's aims and objectives. IB is what kept us in the public schools, and it is a great program for some - as TJ is for some and the Academies are for some and AP is for some. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We love the program. Two kids pupil placed to Marshall. IB is writing intensive. If your student can't write now, s/he will by the end. The underlying philosophy seems to be that writing is the way to achieve and demonstrate clarity of thinking. It can be challenging to achieve the diploma. Many students take IB classes and don't pursue the diploma - they are not ostracized or looked down on. Those pursuing IB are serious about their studies. The level of course rigor is pretty high as evidenced by the success of the students on exams that are graded against students from around the world. The relationship with teachers is very good - IB requires a lot of feedback and discussion. The language requirement (to achieve a 5th yr facility) is a serious impediment to many students achieving the diploma. The CAS hours are not difficult for a normal student involved in sports, scouts, church work, tutoring etc. to comply. The EE is a big paper but given that the student chooses the topic and all IB candidates are actively interested in learning, it is not overly burdensome. The students must be, or become, organized. There is a lot of structure to the program but it also requires that you stay on top of assignments. This is not a program for a student who is not committed to academic learning and to grappling with a broad range of subjects. That requirement to take a broad range of classes may be the biggest difference with AP. The AP student chooses what courses to take. The IB student is more limited in choices as the syllabus requires a broad exposure to various disciplines. An AP student can take the same broad range but is not required to. This appeals to some and not others - be honest about your student's interests and motivations. The Theory of Knowledge course is an intro to epistomology - what do we know and how do we know it? It's very interesting to see high school students grapple with this - and it forces them to present and defend ideas in a critical public forum - kind of like debates.

The program is demanding and is not appropriate for most, or even many, students. It attempts to challenge students who are interested in a broad exposure to the world of ideas, concepts, systems and cultures. It is not for those who don't want to write extensively. It is not for those who wish to focus on STEM or a particular field to the exclusion of others. The diploma candidates are a small group that are very supportive of each other, proud of their efforts, demanding of themselves and others, and have a lot of pride in their accomplishments. The school seems to reciprocate this pride while also respecting those who participate in the Academy and who pursue the general diplomas. I credit the Marshall administration with promoting a very inclusive, respectful and accomplished student body with great pride in each other. We know administrators and families at Robinson who make the same claims for their IB program.

To the OP - get the names of several IB families from somewhere (the school coordinator or the PTSA) and interview them and their kids. Make an assessment of your student's aims and objectives. IB is what kept us in the public schools, and it is a great program for some - as TJ is for some and the Academies are for some and AP is for some. Good luck!

If you don't spot the conflicts in this glowing report, you probably haven't had a non-diploma kid at an IB school.

The bottom line is that you should buy in an IB school district only if you know your kid will be happy doing the full IB diploma program. Otherwise it's a sub-par experience compared to an AP school.