Big expensive houses, nice cars, clothes, golf... but schools suck. Would this help...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PGPS is very similar to DCPS

There are very few isolated high performing school districts

The rest of the area schools generally suck. People of means send their kids to privates

Michelle Rhee wouldn't change anything

What you need to do is have more of the people with means send their kids to the public schools

It's an SES thing that's the only way the schools will improve

Correct. Reform the school system enough to attract the middle class.

Then the underperforming kids will just be diluted by the middle class kids. Nothing is fixed, just hidden.

High performing school districts don't educate their low achieving kids well either. They just have fewer of them so it looks like they are doing better.

That's not always true, but I guess if you believe that it makes it easier to buy a big houses in a jurisdiction like PG with horrible public schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I think if the specialty schools program was expanded, more middle class helicopter parents would put their kids in the county schools. People need some sort of incentive, like winning a "lottery" or knowing that the other parents in their program at least applied and made an effort.

I think this is true, but I wish it weren't because it only exacerbates the inequities. This school district is massive with some dismal schools and some great ones. But no one sees the gems unless they have the cache of a special program and that's a real shame. Some neighborhood schools are sadly getting overlooked. Some parents like the idea of a neighborhood school but are scared away by this very ingrained perception that the only way to make it in this county is in a specialty program. They don't even consider a neighborhood school for an instant. These are middle class helicopter parents who could make a huge difference in a school and use their muscle to make it better and promote the positives.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-specialty program. I just don't think it solves the bigger issue. To tackle the inequities and improve the reputation, the district as a whole needs to show it can educate all its students, not just those who get lucky enough to win the lottery or test TAG or whatever.

+1000

This is so true. The expansion of the specialty programs is really detrimental to our local schools. I understand the reasoning but I think county would really benefit from opening more middle school specialty programs and reducing (or at least stop expanding) elementary school ones. There are lots of great things happening at our local elementary schools. Just think of how much better it could be if we could get the helicopter parents to opt in to their local schools.

I think the specialty program is the only reason some people stick around in PG. I know if my kids hadn't gotten in, we were definitely going to leave. I used to live down south in another majority black county with lots of middle class blacks and poor blacks too, where the schools are absolutely terrible and there is no charter or specialty program. So if you have kids there and can't afford private school, you are just screwed. It's really unfair to those who want better options for their kids. I'm so glad PG has some options for those of us who don't want our kids in poor performing schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PGPS is very similar to DCPS

There are very few isolated high performing school districts

The rest of the area schools generally suck. People of means send their kids to privates

Michelle Rhee wouldn't change anything

What you need to do is have more of the people with means send their kids to the public schools

It's an SES thing that's the only way the schools will improve

Correct. Reform the school system enough to attract the middle class.

Then the underperforming kids will just be diluted by the middle class kids. Nothing is fixed, just hidden.

High performing school districts don't educate their low achieving kids well either. They just have fewer of them so it looks like they are doing better.

That's not always true, but I guess if you believe that it makes it easier to buy a big houses in a jurisdiction like PG with horrible public schools.

Oh puh-lease. I live in PG, and not in an area with nice schools, either. My neighbor sent all three of her children to our crappy public schools here and guess what? One is a cardiologist, one is an immunologist, and the third has taken his MCAT. All three play piano and violin and did all the activities you would expect.

The family matters about a thousand times more than the school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PGPS is very similar to DCPS

There are very few isolated high performing school districts

The rest of the area schools generally suck. People of means send their kids to privates

Michelle Rhee wouldn't change anything

What you need to do is have more of the people with means send their kids to the public schools

It's an SES thing that's the only way the schools will improve

Correct. Reform the school system enough to attract the middle class.

Then the underperforming kids will just be diluted by the middle class kids. Nothing is fixed, just hidden.

I am guessing you didn't intend to say this but please take a step back and realize that you are suggesting schools should be segregated.

So we shouldn't "dilute" the intractable problems of poverty and race by...gasp...allowing poor children of color to attend schools with wealthier families?

And besides, as pp said, all the actual evidence shows that the performance of poor kids actually does rise in economically diverse schools.

This was not what I was implying at all. I believe we need special programs to work with educating underperforming students. And trying to get their parents involved. Mixing them with middle class kids does nothing to help them. Just makes their issues less apparent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PGPS is very similar to DCPS

There are very few isolated high performing school districts

The rest of the area schools generally suck. People of means send their kids to privates

Michelle Rhee wouldn't change anything

What you need to do is have more of the people with means send their kids to the public schools

It's an SES thing that's the only way the schools will improve

Correct. Reform the school system enough to attract the middle class.

Then the underperforming kids will just be diluted by the middle class kids. Nothing is fixed, just hidden.

High performing school districts don't educate their low achieving kids well either. They just have fewer of them so it looks like they are doing better.

That's not always true, but I guess if you believe that it makes it easier to buy a big houses in a jurisdiction like PG with horrible public schools.

Oh puh-lease. I live in PG, and not in an area with nice schools, either. My neighbor sent all three of her children to our crappy public schools here and guess what? One is a cardiologist, one is an immunologist, and the third has taken his MCAT. All three play piano and violin and did all the activities you would expect.

The family matters about a thousand times more than the school

+1 My Fortune 500 VP is a PG county resident and public school graduate. I live and grew up here. A lot of families work hard to ensure their kids can succeed. Oh and their black (which I think is the real issue for the fears and low ratings because I've looked at test scores and there are high performing schools with low internet "rankings")

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PGPS is very similar to DCPS

There are very few isolated high performing school districts

The rest of the area schools generally suck. People of means send their kids to privates

Michelle Rhee wouldn't change anything

What you need to do is have more of the people with means send their kids to the public schools

It's an SES thing that's the only way the schools will improve

Correct. Reform the school system enough to attract the middle class.

Then the underperforming kids will just be diluted by the middle class kids. Nothing is fixed, just hidden.

I am guessing you didn't intend to say this but please take a step back and realize that you are suggesting schools should be segregated.

So we shouldn't "dilute" the intractable problems of poverty and race by...gasp...allowing poor children of color to attend schools with wealthier families?

And besides, as pp said, all the actual evidence shows that the performance of poor kids actually does rise in economically diverse schools.

This was not what I was implying at all. I believe we need special programs to work with educating underperforming students. And trying to get their parents involved[b]. Mixing them with middle class kids does nothing to help them. Just makes their issues less apparent.

Or we could just send them a bill.

[Anonymous]

I don't know why I am going to wade into this mess of a thread, but here goes.

While family life is certainly a factor in academic success, I don't believe we should dismiss the effect of a quality education. All kids, even disadvantaged kids, can learn AT SCHOOL, when given the right tools. This means good leadership, capable and talented teachers, and a clean and safe environment. Theses are complex issues, and it would be great if all families were more involved in their kids. However, we should demand more from the school administrators and teachers, as well. Our poor performing schools frequently have fewer resources for experiential learning, the poorest performing teachers, and maybe even the poorest performing administrators.

We are in this terrible cycle where the schools have a bad reputation, primarily due to test scores. We need to find other ways of measuring success. We need to stop relying so heavily on testing as the only measure of success. Even the best performing schools are only making good test takers, not necessarily preparing them for life.

I think the country should figure out how to attract "top talent" to the teaching profession. I think our county should focus on finding ways to attract and keep the best teachers. Experienced, capable, certified teachers.

I live in PG, zoned for a high performing elementary, and still pay for private school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know why I am going to wade into this mess of a thread, but here goes.

While family life is certainly a factor in academic success, I don't believe we should dismiss the effect of a quality education. All kids, even disadvantaged kids, can learn AT SCHOOL, when given the right tools. This means good leadership, capable and talented teachers, and a clean and safe environment. Theses are complex issues, and it would be great if all families were more involved in their kids. However, we should demand more from the school administrators and teachers, as well. Our poor performing schools frequently have fewer resources for experiential learning, the poorest performing teachers, and maybe even the poorest performing administrators.

We are in this terrible cycle where the schools have a bad reputation, primarily due to test scores. We need to find other ways of measuring success. We need to stop relying so heavily on testing as the only measure of success. Even the best performing schools are only making good test takers, not necessarily preparing them for life.

I think the country should figure out how to attract "top talent" to the teaching profession. I think our county should focus on finding ways to attract and keep the best teachers. Experienced, capable, certified teachers.

I live in PG, zoned for a high performing elementary, and still pay for private school.

Why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know why I am going to wade into this mess of a thread, but here goes.

While family life is certainly a factor in academic success, I don't believe we should dismiss the effect of a quality education. All kids, even disadvantaged kids, can learn AT SCHOOL, when given the right tools. This means good leadership, capable and talented teachers, and a clean and safe environment. Theses are complex issues, and it would be great if all families were more involved in their kids. However, we should demand more from the school administrators and teachers, as well. Our poor performing schools frequently have fewer resources for experiential learning, the poorest performing teachers, and maybe even the poorest performing administrators.

We are in this terrible cycle where the schools have a bad reputation, primarily due to test scores. We need to find other ways of measuring success. We need to stop relying so heavily on testing as the only measure of success. Even the best performing schools are only making good test takers, not necessarily preparing them for life.

I think the country should figure out how to attract "top talent" to the teaching profession. I think our county should focus on finding ways to attract and keep the best teachers. Experienced, capable, certified teachers.

I live in PG, zoned for a high performing elementary, and still pay for private school.

So I also live in PG and have a now-high-schooler in the public system. I have to say, with the exception of *maybe* two teachers since kindergarten, all of my child's teachers have been terrific and dedicated. Let's not pin this on the teachers, please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know why I am going to wade into this mess of a thread, but here goes.

While family life is certainly a factor in academic success, I don't believe we should dismiss the effect of a quality education. All kids, even disadvantaged kids, can learn AT SCHOOL, when given the right tools. This means good leadership, capable and talented teachers, and a clean and safe environment. Theses are complex issues, and it would be great if all families were more involved in their kids. However, we should demand more from the school administrators and teachers, as well. Our poor performing schools frequently have fewer resources for experiential learning, the poorest performing teachers, and maybe even the poorest performing administrators.

We are in this terrible cycle where the schools have a bad reputation, primarily due to test scores. We need to find other ways of measuring success. We need to stop relying so heavily on testing as the only measure of success. Even the best performing schools are only making good test takers, not necessarily preparing them for life.

I think the country should figure out how to attract "top talent" to the teaching profession. I think our county should focus on finding ways to attract and keep the best teachers. Experienced, capable, certified teachers.

I live in PG, zoned for a high performing elementary, and still pay for private school.

My sense with the PG county school system is that there is a problem of general mediocrity; that is, school buildings are generally clean and safe, the teachers are pretty good, but things fall apart in the details. Children whose parents don't care do badly on tests, and those tests reflect on the whole county. A focused student with focused parents will excel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

So I also live in PG and have a now-high-schooler in the public system. I have to say, with the exception of *maybe* two teachers since kindergarten, all of my child's teachers have been terrific and dedicated. Let's not pin this on the teachers, please.

I am not blaming teachers. I want to elevate the standing of and to better support teachers. I think blaming parents/poverty is insufficient. We are not going to "fix" parents, but we can find ways to improve our schools. Blaming the home life makes it easy for all the middle class to ignore the role we play. If we do all we can to better educate our kids, the next generation will benefit and have fewer disadvantages.

As to why I pay for private, one big driver is that I don't like the emphasis on testing at such early grades. I suspect many schools are unfairly maligned (or boasted) because of some skewed test scores. Lastly, I recognize that by sending? my child to a private that I am potentially part of the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know why I am going to wade into this mess of a thread, but here goes.

While family life is certainly a factor in academic success, I don't believe we should dismiss the effect of a quality education. All kids, even disadvantaged kids, can learn AT SCHOOL, when given the right tools. This means good leadership, capable and talented teachers, and a clean and safe environment. Theses are complex issues, and it would be great if all families were more involved in their kids. However, we should demand more from the school administrators and teachers, as well. Our poor performing schools frequently have fewer resources for experiential learning, the poorest performing teachers, and maybe even the poorest performing administrators.

We are in this terrible cycle where the schools have a bad reputation, primarily due to test scores. We need to find other ways of measuring success. We need to stop relying so heavily on testing as the only measure of success. Even the best performing schools are only making good test takers, not necessarily preparing them for life.

I think the country should figure out how to attract "top talent" to the teaching profession. I think our county should focus on finding ways to attract and keep the best teachers. Experienced, capable, certified teachers.

I live in PG, zoned for a high performing elementary, and still pay for private school.

Why is this a "mess of a thread"? It isn't. It has spurred discussion about the quality of education in the county. There's a reason this post generated so much attention... we care. Many have offered good suggestions, and have given thoughtful insight based on their experiences. If you think this is a mess of a thread, go check out the DC Private Schools section and report back. PG County School threads are far more civil.

Signed, DC Private School Parent living in McMansion Community PG County.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Why is this a "mess of a thread"? It isn't. It has spurred discussion about the quality of education in the county. There's a reason this post generated so much attention... we care. Many have offered good suggestions, and have given thoughtful insight based on their experiences. If you think this is a mess of a thread, go check out the DC Private Schools section and report back. PG County School threads are far more civil.

Signed, DC Private School Parent living in McMansion Community PG County.

Fair enough. There have been some really good responses. I think I was turned off by the OP's implication that parents aren't already involved, and the quick response that "you can't change students." I'm not sure if both those were posted by trolls, but I, rightly or wrongly, assigned some measure of racism or self-loathing into it. After a re-read, I can see that maybe the OP really is looking for a discussion on solutions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know why I am going to wade into this mess of a thread, but here goes.

While family life is certainly a factor in academic success, I don't believe we should dismiss the effect of a quality education. All kids, even disadvantaged kids, can learn AT SCHOOL, when given the right tools. This means good leadership, capable and talented teachers, and a clean and safe environment. Theses are complex issues, and it would be great if all families were more involved in their kids. However, we should demand more from the school administrators and teachers, as well. Our poor performing schools frequently have fewer resources for experiential learning, the poorest performing teachers, and maybe even the poorest performing administrators.

We are in this terrible cycle where the schools have a bad reputation, primarily due to test scores. We need to find other ways of measuring success. We need to stop relying so heavily on testing as the only measure of success. Even the best performing schools are only making good test takers, not necessarily preparing them for life.

I think the country should figure out how to attract "top talent" to the teaching profession. I think our county should focus on finding ways to attract and keep the best teachers. Experienced, capable, certified teachers.

I live in PG, zoned for a high performing elementary, and still pay for private school.

My sense with the PG county school system is that there is a problem of general mediocrity; that is, school buildings are generally clean and safe, the teachers are pretty good, but things fall apart in the details. Children whose parents don't care do badly on tests, and those tests reflect on the whole county. A focused student with focused parents will excel.

I feel this statement is the most accurate. It's not a horrible school system..it isn't no where near close but there maybe a mediocrity mindset with the school system as well as the parents

[Anonymous]

^^agreed. PGCPS gets such a bad rap but let's put this into context...it may be one of the lower-performing districts compared to its neighbors, but Maryland has the #1 schools in the NATION. And the DC area in particular has top-tier schools. I think PG does just fine, even if it's not perfect. Few schools can compete with Bethesda or Howard County.