McMullin's NYT Op-Ed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been following Evan Mcmullin on Twitter since the election and I've been very impressed. I'm a democrat but I would seriously consider voting for him. To me, he comes across as honorable and a thinker like Obama.

I wonder if you would have been as impressed with him had he not been opposed to Trump.

Well, I'm not sure how to separate the two in this case. I'm sure you are right because you can't really square his principled vision and defense of the constitution with what Trump is doing. My hysteria about Trump is not about policy. It's everything else. I'm honestly jealous of Trump supporters. I wish I thought he was great and this was good for America. Instead, I've been in a state of constant anxiety since the election.

Many Trump voters don't think Trump is "great." Instead, they see someone who may actually get things done. I don't care for Trump much, but I voted for him for this reason. He's not a politician and I'm hoping he governs the way he's run his businesses. With common sense.

He ran his businesses into bankruptcy and righted the ship with a reality tv show. That's what you pin your hopes on?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been following Evan Mcmullin on Twitter since the election and I've been very impressed. I'm a democrat but I would seriously consider voting for him. To me, he comes across as honorable and a thinker like Obama.

I wonder if you would have been as impressed with him had he not been opposed to Trump.

Well, I'm not sure how to separate the two in this case. I'm sure you are right because you can't really square his principled vision and defense of the constitution with what Trump is doing. My hysteria about Trump is not about policy. It's everything else. I'm honestly jealous of Trump supporters. I wish I thought he was great and this was good for America. Instead, I've been in a state of constant anxiety since the election.

As I said, I did not vote for Trump and I have concerns about his adherence to the constitution. But at this point he has been elected president and I will give him a fair chance to implement his policies.

There is this endless criticism by liberals - and I am a liberal - of his cabinet appointments but for the most part he has been nominating people who will implement the policies that he said he would. He will appoint Supreme Court justices who are conservatives because he said he was going to do so. We may not like his choices because of their philosophy but that is an inevitable result of his election.

As Obama said, elections have consequences and Trump's election is no exception.

And therefore you shouldn't oppose policies and appointments you think are wrong? That's ridiculous. You're essentially saying that presidents should not be criticized. This isn't an autocracy.

You have a problem with reading comprehension. I may be opposed to some of his policies but he has the right to implement them because he won the presidency and the Republicans won the Senate and House.

There were Republicans who were opposed to Obama's policies but he won the election and so he had the right to get them implemented if he could get it through Congress.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Now democrats are suddenly concerned about the Constitution. Well, this is a new wrinkle. I guess their handouts are about to be threatened!

Liberals love the Constitution so much they launched the civil rights movement in the 20th century to make sure that it was implemented the way it should be, for all Americans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now democrats are suddenly concerned about the Constitution. Well, this is a new wrinkle. I guess their handouts are about to be threatened!

Liberals love the Constitution so much they launched the civil rights movement in the 20th century to make sure that it was implemented the way it should be, for all Americans.

The civil rights legislation would never have passed without the support of Republicans - check it out.

I think there were more Republican senators who voted for it than did Democratic senators.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now democrats are suddenly concerned about the Constitution. Well, this is a new wrinkle. I guess their handouts are about to be threatened!

Liberals love the Constitution so much they launched the civil rights movement in the 20th century to make sure that it was implemented the way it should be, for all Americans.

The civil rights legislation would never have passed without the support of Republicans - check it out.

I think there were more Republican senators who voted for it than did Democratic senators.

PP said liberals. Party platforms are not stagnant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now democrats are suddenly concerned about the Constitution. Well, this is a new wrinkle. I guess their handouts are about to be threatened!

Liberals love the Constitution so much they launched the civil rights movement in the 20th century to make sure that it was implemented the way it should be, for all Americans.

The civil rights legislation would never have passed without the support of Republicans - check it out.

I think there were more Republican senators who voted for it than did Democratic senators.

Dixiecrats were not liberals. They were conservatives and as soon as they could they switched parties to where they felt they belonged, the Republicans.

[Anonymous]

Now look for Manchin and Heitkamp to bolt the party or lose their seats in 2018.

But then they are not east coast or west coast liberals so who cares?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Stop dreaming, OP. You hate him. Admit it.

Who? Trump? Not the OP, but yes, I hate him. What an entitled asshole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now democrats are suddenly concerned about the Constitution. Well, this is a new wrinkle. I guess their handouts are about to be threatened!

Exactly.

Exactly what? Hmm... Was it Republican party defending the 1st amandament right in the last 20 years? Not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tough to take seriously someone whose expressed goal was to stop Trump.

What if his goal of stopping Trump was because he thought Trump was anti-American? I'm no McMullin fan, but I think he's been completely consistent in his view of Trump. If anything it seems like that makes him more serious rather than less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now democrats are suddenly concerned about the Constitution. Well, this is a new wrinkle. I guess their handouts are about to be threatened!

Liberals love the Constitution so much they launched the civil rights movement in the 20th century to make sure that it was implemented the way it should be, for all Americans.

The civil rights legislation would never have passed without the support of Republicans - check it out.

I think there were more Republican senators who voted for it than did Democratic senators.

Dixiecrats were not liberals. They were conservatives and as soon as they could they switched parties to where they felt they belonged, the Republicans.

That's nice. Do you have a point?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am heartened that there are people like McMullin willing to speak out. I have considered wether I was simply a "hater", as suggested, but I think not. I don't remember feeling this way in 2000 or 2004.

I think I can see that Trump is not a normal GOP President, and definitely not a Reagan.
I understand the pickle some people found themselves in when having to choose between two flawed candidates, but I hope that, once the euphoria for having gotten rid of one evil wears off, people will be able to see the one we are left with.

I hope it is true that everything falls by its own weight.

Would you have felt the same way if Hillary had won the election?

I did not vote for Trump and have some trepidation about how he will fare but I can tell you that Hillary as president would certainly not have offered any comfort.

Yes, I would have but in a slightly different way. I am going to adapt an analogy somebody- I think O'Malley? - used before: Hillary is a sniper with a gun; Trump is a monkey with a gun. With Hillary I would have been worried about some of her poor judgment but I do agree with her national policies as outlined-which in any case would have had no chance at all with GOP house to the point of making her Presidency useless and possibly even harmful to the long term health of the party.

Also, I would have been cringing every day about her latest flip flop, scandal, bad judgment but I would not have been afraid of a temper tantrum accidentally escalating into a trade war or real war, or disgusted by KKK celebrating, with reason or not- election of what they think is one for them. In the long term, the Democrats will fair better because they got their 'pruning' (and will get some more); I hope the GOP is not made into the party of Trump, as the Democratic party was made into the party of Clinton. I want people like Graham, Collins, McCain, Hogan, Romney, Huntsman, etc...I guess I am dreaming.

I am not hoping for the GOP to fail but I am hoping for Trumpism to fail, in particular the anti-expert, anti-intellectualism that has prevailed. Not just against the intellectual Left, but also against any Intellectual Right that does not agree with Trump on everything (WSJ is bad at math kind of tweet from Trump and Co). I think in the end that's what saddens me the most of all because I believe in studying, and in academic rigor, and not that anyone can do anything well without preparation or practice or real study of the evidence...all decisions made by gut or popularity.... Anti-vaxers anti-GMO crazies on the left, climate change deniers, anti-social science on the right. Sigh...
...But this election showed me I am wrong I guess.

Thanks for this thoughtful post. I don't agree with your characterization of Clinton, but I understand why you feel the way that you do and I am 100% in agreement with your position on Trumpism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let me put it this way and it is an exaggerated analogy: if David Duke wrote an editorial about the hazards of multi-culturalism, I would not give his comments any consideration even if he cited some legitimate arguments.

This is not to compare McMullin to Duke but a critic has to have some basic credibility before one can take the individual's critique seriously.

I get your point, but I don't think it's an accurate analogy. McMullin, as I understand it, entered the race as a spoiler *because* he perceived Trump as a threat to the Constitution. It's not like this is his latest argument in a series of trying to discredit Trump. This op-ed sums up the entire reason he has opposed him from the start. If he were just a generic #NeverTrump-er, I would find your analogy more apt.

McMullin and other "never Trump" Republicans fundamental objection to Trump was that he was not a genuine conservative ..... and they are right about this. Trump has no fealty to any ideology which is both a strength and weakness. Their other concern was that he was not beholden to the "establishment" and special interests which made him less pliable.

His adherence or lack of adherence to the constitution was something that surfaced later.

I dunno. This August 2016 critique of him in the National Review discredits him for exactly the things he stated in his op-ed:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/438951/evan-mcmullin-republican-party-establishment-third-party-candidate-conservatives

You have to read pretty far down to get to the multi-point critique of him, but it's consistent with the viewpoint he shared in NYT.

This. McMullin has been beating thus drum for a while.

--a liberal Democrat

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been following Evan Mcmullin on Twitter since the election and I've been very impressed. I'm a democrat but I would seriously consider voting for him. To me, he comes across as honorable and a thinker like Obama.

I wonder if you would have been as impressed with him had he not been opposed to Trump.

Well, I'm not sure how to separate the two in this case. I'm sure you are right because you can't really square his principled vision and defense of the constitution with what Trump is doing. My hysteria about Trump is not about policy. It's everything else. I'm honestly jealous of Trump supporters. I wish I thought he was great and this was good for America. Instead, I've been in a state of constant anxiety since the election.

As I said, I did not vote for Trump and I have concerns about his adherence to the constitution. But at this point he has been elected president and I will give him a fair chance to implement his policies.

There is this endless criticism by liberals - and I am a liberal - of his cabinet appointments but for the most part he has been nominating people who will implement the policies that he said he would. He will appoint Supreme Court justices who are conservatives because he said he was going to do so. We may not like his choices because of their philosophy but that is an inevitable result of his election.

As Obama said, elections have consequences and Trump's election is no exception.

This is absolutely false. Many of his appointments are diametrically opposed to opinions he espoused on the campaign trail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been following Evan Mcmullin on Twitter since the election and I've been very impressed. I'm a democrat but I would seriously consider voting for him. To me, he comes across as honorable and a thinker like Obama.

I wonder if you would have been as impressed with him had he not been opposed to Trump.

Well, I'm not sure how to separate the two in this case. I'm sure you are right because you can't really square his principled vision and defense of the constitution with what Trump is doing. My hysteria about Trump is not about policy. It's everything else. I'm honestly jealous of Trump supporters. I wish I thought he was great and this was good for America. Instead, I've been in a state of constant anxiety since the election.

As I said, I did not vote for Trump and I have concerns about his adherence to the constitution. But at this point he has been elected president and I will give him a fair chance to implement his policies.

There is this endless criticism by liberals - and I am a liberal - of his cabinet appointments but for the most part he has been nominating people who will implement the policies that he said he would. He will appoint Supreme Court justices who are conservatives because he said he was going to do so. We may not like his choices because of their philosophy but that is an inevitable result of his election.

As Obama said, elections have consequences and Trump's election is no exception.

This is absolutely false. Many of his appointments are diametrically opposed to opinions he espoused on the campaign trail.

Well then, you must be really pleased with his appointments in that case!