I don't want to supplement at home

[Anonymous]

I'm having trouble figuring out where OP and other parents on this thread think supplementing-at-home starts and ends in its interface with your garden variety domesticity in the homes of affluent, uber educated parents. For example, we are a geography oriented family, meaning that we have "map time" before bed, rather than reading-a-story-time. We play "globe games" in the evenings, just for fun. Does our quirky bedtime routine constitute supplementing? We don't drill the kids in any subject in particular outside of the DCPS curriculum, but speak a language other than English at home (and consistently require the kids to answer in the language), and love history, politics, literature, anthropology, archeology and so forth. The kids pick up on our intellectual interests, and run with some of them in their reading, summer camp and play choices. We will opt out of standardized testing, lacking interest in how our children would score on the PARCC. Are we supplementing by making unusual lifestyle choices, or simply celebrating our joy of nerdy pursuits in a manner that draws in the next generation?

[Anonymous]

No, PP, that's not what they are talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:reading is the only supplement you need. If you know language - it's rhythms and moves - you'll do just fine. You can always get caught up in math, but vocabulary ect just takes lots and lots of reading. You have to encounter a new word three times before you know it and can use it.

If this were true, so many DCPS students wouldn't be performing so poorly.

Kids stop recreational reading in 2nd and 3rd grade. Parents stop reading to kids in 2nd or 3rd grade. I teach college and my classes break down into kids who like to read and those who don't. There is some correlation to curiosity. But I'm not sure what comes first (are curious kids more likely to be readers or are readers more likely to be curious). But curiosity and ability are almost always twined. When they are not, there is a reason (second language learning for those who are curious without ability or natural giftedness for those who have ability without curiosity - BTW this second set of kids don't fare well, the first does etc).

This is were this new administration failed, they thought having rigorous curricula would raise reading levels but if kids are years behind in reading they don't want to read and fall more and more behind. DCPS should have had programs to meet all kids were they are and try and bring them up. Current model is more rigorous content with scaffolding, when you're behind you won't EVER catch up if you don't know the basics. Kids who can read well are generally curious and self-motivated learners, if you can read you can learn almost anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
OK, I read your follow-up and the problem here is that you don't know how to make your kids work.
You're in good company, OP, that's the problem with most parents around here, raised in the permissive parenting era.

If your kids are young, you have the luxury of time - but don't be fooled. Start now to build a relationship with your kids based on respect, not just trust. Your kids have to believe that you know what's right for them. They need to learn delayed gratification and impulse control. That's hard in a society that constantly pushes the opposite!
So a little work now will go a long way. By the time their peers are rebelling from their parents, yours will be listening to you.

This sounds like an authoritarian parenting style, which in my experience tends to not work out well in the long run. It might appear that the kids are listening to the parents, but they're actually doing what they want behind the parents's backs. And they frequently end up with distant and/or formal relationships with their parents as adults.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the helpful responses. Here's some more information in case it helps elicit any more good advice

We have already done our due diligence on the current school and determined we are not comfortable with it. We have determined if we were to stay, we would need to do some heavy-duty supplementing in order to feel like we're were doing right by our kids. We want them to achieve to their potential, academically.

My spouse and I both work full time and so in the evenings, we only have 2-3 hours per night with our kids. We do all the stuff "good" "smart" families are supposed to do-- discussions about current events, incorporating math and reading into everyday stuff we do as a family. We read stories together at night. We love spending weekends in the great outdoors and the boys are very into their sports teams, which is also important to us. We have not, in the past, done any sort of deliberate supplementing at home where there is a set curriculum, goals, etc.

Recently I have tried kumon and other workbooks. It just doesn't work. My kids, although they are fine with schoolwork done at school, are very resistant to doing it at home. They don't see the point if their teachers think they are doing fine. It becomes a battle and I would rather spend family time on the fun stuff and the enrichment side of things, and let school focus on the academic fundamentals.

Our in-bounds school is Maury. No personal experience with it since we lotteried into the charter, but have heard mixed things and don't want to pull the kids from somewhere they are happy only to find we didn't improve our situation and need to move again.

We can afford to, and would gladly (well somewhat gladly) move to be in bounds for JKLM. And we will attend those open houses this year. But I am realistic about what you can learn from an open house. Their test scores are respectable but we would be bummed to move only to find the reason the scores at those schools are good is that those parents are supplementing too.

Our ideal is a school where the kids get good fundamentals and are challenged to do advanced work (not necessarily "gifted"-- I am realistic about that). There will be homework from school but otherwise we can enjoy our limited family time doing sports, music, hiking, and enjoying each other's company. Is this possible in DC? I went to public schools myself and have plenty of friends from undergrad and grad school who also went to public schools and did very well academically. So I know private is not necessary. But a good public is...

I have three kids in a JKLM and many, many friends in the school (we've been in the community for 6 years). I don't know of anyone who formally supplements outside of school. Kids do music lessons, travel sports, and every other extracurricular under the sun, (competitive swimming, ice skating, diving, ballet etc) but no academic supplementation. My neighbor's kid is really academically gifted (one of those kids who could do probably do trig in 4th grade with the slightest bit of direction) and even his parents don't supplement. They just encourage him to read and have playdates.
You might be pleasantly surprised here.

This is exactly what I wanted to hear. Really, we had in the back of our mind that we would move to JKLM anyhow, but then after learning of this supplementing subculture (which people tend to be pretty quiet about), I started to worry everyone supplements up there too, and moving might not improve things for us. And after investing that much in a house, it would be pretty disappointing to figure out we'd have to be spending our time (and perhaps additional money) supplementing anyhow. (And to be clear, when I say supplement, I mean formal academic supplementing, not the types of enrichment activities most higher SES families do with their kids anyhow).

Also, I love the idea of PP's imaginary academically rigorous yet non-punitive charter school!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OK, I read your follow-up and the problem here is that you don't know how to make your kids work.
You're in good company, OP, that's the problem with most parents around here, raised in the permissive parenting era.

If your kids are young, you have the luxury of time - but don't be fooled. Start now to build a relationship with your kids based on respect, not just trust. Your kids have to believe that you know what's right for them. They need to learn delayed gratification and impulse control. That's hard in a society that constantly pushes the opposite!
So a little work now will go a long way. By the time their peers are rebelling from their parents, yours will be listening to you.

This sounds like an authoritarian parenting style, which in my experience tends to not work out well in the long run. It might appear that the kids are listening to the parents, but they're actually doing what they want behind the parents's backs. And they frequently end up with distant and/or formal relationships with their parents as adults.

But guess how the ones who were raised as their parents' "best friends" turn out? On drugs, in jail or just your garden-variety failures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OK, I read your follow-up and the problem here is that you don't know how to make your kids work.
You're in good company, OP, that's the problem with most parents around here, raised in the permissive parenting era.

If your kids are young, you have the luxury of time - but don't be fooled. Start now to build a relationship with your kids based on respect, not just trust. Your kids have to believe that you know what's right for them. They need to learn delayed gratification and impulse control. That's hard in a society that constantly pushes the opposite!
So a little work now will go a long way. By the time their peers are rebelling from their parents, yours will be listening to you.

This sounds like an authoritarian parenting style, which in my experience tends to not work out well in the long run. It might appear that the kids are listening to the parents, but they're actually doing what they want behind the parents's backs. And they frequently end up with distant and/or formal relationships with their parents as adults.

But guess how the ones who were raised as their parents' "best friends" turn out? On drugs, in jail or just your garden-variety failures.

You're exactly right, because the only two options possible are strict authoritarian or "best friends."

Besides, contemporary culture is just like the 1950's. As long as your child shows proper respect towards all the white men wearing suits and hats, he'll end up with a job for life at the local bank.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just can't stomach supplementing at home. School ought to be able to teach my kid what he needs to know, at an adequately challenging level, in 7 hours plus reasonable homework time.

I feel this way too. Kids should have time to play and just be kids for Christ sake.

+1

My lord. How early do we have to stick our kids on the treadmill? Depressing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OK, I read your follow-up and the problem here is that you don't know how to make your kids work.
You're in good company, OP, that's the problem with most parents around here, raised in the permissive parenting era.

If your kids are young, you have the luxury of time - but don't be fooled. Start now to build a relationship with your kids based on respect, not just trust. Your kids have to believe that you know what's right for them. They need to learn delayed gratification and impulse control. That's hard in a society that constantly pushes the opposite!
So a little work now will go a long way. By the time their peers are rebelling from their parents, yours will be listening to you.

This sounds like an authoritarian parenting style, which in my experience tends to not work out well in the long run. It might appear that the kids are listening to the parents, but they're actually doing what they want behind the parents's backs. And they frequently end up with distant and/or formal relationships with their parents as adults.

But guess how the ones who were raised as their parents' "best friends" turn out? On drugs, in jail or just your garden-variety failures.

Yes, and that's why the smart parent aims for the middle ground of being neither the best friend nor the stern taskmaster. Best way to raise respectful, loving kids who grow into good adults who are good people.

[Anonymous]

Op, I totally relate, and you sound like someone I would be friends with. My oldest is a kindergartener, so we haven't run into supplementation* yet, but if that ends up being expected or the norm at our charter, that would be a major turn off.

That said, I have no idea how I would judge if my child is getting enough rigor or learning the "right" things, so moving up in the grades will be an interesting learning experience for us all.

*supplementation as in worksheets or actual teaching of a curriculum, as opposed to map games and fun reading and museums or nature hike or whatever.

[Anonymous]

PP - you need to think about where you want your kids to be in 7th or 8th. Are you expecting them to be in Algebra in 6th or 7th grade -- then they need all the Common Core number sense stuff by 4th or 5th and math facts cold by then too.

If you are ok with Algebra in 9th grade, then no worries.

[Anonymous]

If you really want your kid to excel at math, forget the insidious Common Core number sense stuff and knowing math facts cold in 4th and 5th grade. That's shooting for math mediocrity. Focus on living the math, using it to power strange and wonderful science and architecture experiments of your kid's own design. Encourage your kid to enter math and science competitions s/he prepares for with your help as soon as possible, to play chess well, and to design intricate video games. Love the math, celebrate the math, whip out calculators, slide rules and abacuses everywhere you go and shout out the answers, sing them if you dare. I got an 800 on the SAT quantitative section as a 10th grader, a 5 on BC Calculus, and a degree from MIT. And nobody drilled me in math facts at any point in the days when public schools didn't shove kinds onto math learning conveyor belts. Fight back and win.

[Anonymous]

I know of at least one family all leaving Two Rivers and going to Maury. Take a tour, you'll be pleasantly surprised.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:reading is the only supplement you need. If you know language - it's rhythms and moves - you'll do just fine. You can always get caught up in math, but vocabulary ect just takes lots and lots of reading. You have to encounter a new word three times before you know it and can use it.

If this were true, so many DCPS students wouldn't be performing so poorly.

Kids stop recreational reading in 2nd and 3rd grade. Parents stop reading to kids in 2nd or 3rd grade. I teach college and my classes break down into kids who like to read and those who don't. There is some correlation to curiosity. But I'm not sure what comes first (are curious kids more likely to be readers or are readers more likely to be curious). But curiosity and ability are almost always twined. When they are not, there is a reason (second language learning for those who are curious without ability or natural giftedness for those who have ability without curiosity - BTW this second set of kids don't fare well, the first does etc).

You "teach college"? Where - an online "university" in the Caribbean? Kids don't stop recreational reading in 2nd or 3rd grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know of at least one family all leaving Two Rivers and going to Maury. Take a tour, you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Maury = Eliot Hine