When a large number of teachers leave a school in one year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Meaning: does anyone in central MCPS collect data on staff attrition at schools? Any involved parents or admin on here who know?

I expect someone, somewhere has this info but that its not generally available to the public nor are MCPS employees encouraged to leak it to people.

[Anonymous]

It should be shared--it would encourage school leaders to take care to keep up morale. That helps kids in the end. It also would identify schools with possible problems that at least should be looked into, and maybe identify principals who need some extra support and mentoring. I don't think the MCPS leadership gives enough training to principals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It should be shared--it would encourage school leaders to take care to keep up morale. That helps kids in the end. It also would identify schools with possible problems that at least should be looked into, and maybe identify principals who need some extra support and mentoring. I don't think the MCPS leadership gives enough training to principals.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It should be shared--it would encourage school leaders to take care to keep up morale. That helps kids in the end. It also would identify schools with possible problems that at least should be looked into, and maybe identify principals who need some extra support and mentoring. I don't think the MCPS leadership gives enough training to principals.

+1

I think they move them up too quickly. Our school has a new one this coming year and he's had just 10 years in education, including a few years teaching, then central office, then assistant principal, and now he's in charge of an entire school. I just don't think 10 years (in multiple positions) is enough time to gain all the experience needed. I think of a principal as someone who has "seen it all," not one someone who's merely on a stepping stone to their next promotion.

[Anonymous]

They do every other kind of data collection and survey in the book - Does MCPS really not do anonymous leadership survey/evaluation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They do every other kind of data collection and survey in the book - Does MCPS really not do anonymous leadership survey/evaluation?

The Viers Mill ES PTA did an anonymous survey of their own which they emailed to all of the staff last fall when there were many signs/concerns that the new principal was not a good fit for the school. A majority of the staff completed the survey and the results (which indicated many were considering leaving the school) were given to central at a requested meeting. It also gave staff the support/validation they needed to contact their unions. At the end of the year he resigned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They do every other kind of data collection and survey in the book - Does MCPS really not do anonymous leadership survey/evaluation?

The Viers Mill ES PTA did an anonymous survey of their own which they emailed to all of the staff last fall when there were many signs/concerns that the new principal was not a good fit for the school. A majority of the staff completed the survey and the results (which indicated many were considering leaving the school) were given to central at a requested meeting. It also gave staff the support/validation they needed to contact their unions. At the end of the year he resigned.

I have not heard that story, but good for the parents for taking steps to protect their school. It should be done by central MCPS but I am pretty certain it is not. This is why parents should sit up and pay attention and ask questions before the good staff members leave. They do have the ability to help. The Viers Mill PTA was pretty creative, actually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is happening at my DD's Whitman feeder MS. Lots of good, young teachers are leaving and I don't understand why.

Yes, Pyle is having a huge turnover this year. A lot of good teachers and staff are leaving.

Not just young teachers.

Why?

Its not clear to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They do every other kind of data collection and survey in the book - Does MCPS really not do anonymous leadership survey/evaluation?

The Viers Mill ES PTA did an anonymous survey of their own which they emailed to all of the staff last fall when there were many signs/concerns that the new principal was not a good fit for the school. A majority of the staff completed the survey and the results (which indicated many were considering leaving the school) were given to central at a requested meeting. It also gave staff the support/validation they needed to contact their unions. At the end of the year he resigned.

I have not heard that story, but good for the parents for taking steps to protect their school. It should be done by central MCPS but I am pretty certain it is not. This is why parents should sit up and pay attention and ask questions before the good staff members leave. They do have the ability to help. The Viers Mill PTA was pretty creative, actually.

I teach there. It was a brilliant move, and I think it saved a lot of staff from leaving. We were hopeful that things might change, and the higher-ups were pretty responsive. I know I answered that I was considering leaving, but after the results came out and the ball started rolling, I decided to stay at least another year to see what happened. And I'm glad, because I really love the students and families in that community.

[Anonymous]

There's an admin survey that we take anonymously ever year, but it asks the wrong questions if it will truly be useful. Do I think my principal is fair and consistent in dealing with staff? Yes, we are all getting the same crappy support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've been at the same school for 15 years (hey, it's super convenient to my house), and this happens. A lot of times it goes with new leadership, but it's not always a sign of something bad. Many people stay in places and think about moving schools, grades, specialties, whatever, but stay because they know the culture of the school and it's comfortable (and they like it). When a principal moves on, that's an opportunity for others to move on as well, if they've been thinking about it. I wanted to switch from being a classroom teacher to a reading specialist. I thought about leaving when we got a new AP, but then a RS position opened up in our school, and I didn't have to. But if had moved, it wasn't a commentary on school leadership.

Of course, there are times when a new principal rolls in and that person is difficult to work with, you will see turnover at the end of the year. But you may also see that turnover if the principal is good and trying to start initiatives that staff don't want to bother with. We got a new principal after I had been at my school for about 5-6 years. The former principal was really lax about things like time sheets and leave slips. Teachers could skip out after dismissal for doctor appointments without taking leave. This way before telework days, but he never made people come in on professional days if they didn't need to. But he had built a relationship of trust with staff, and very few people took advantage. He moved up, and a new principal came in, who required staff to follow the rules. A lot of staff felt that was intrusive, because they were so used to the old way. So they left at the end of the new guy's first year. Does that mean that the new guy was inept?

I guess my point is that yes, an exodus could mean there's something wrong. But it could mean several others things as well, and there's no real way to know without interviewing staff, and who has that kind of time?

Teachers are professionals. Why should they have to fill out a leave slip to leave campus to go to the doctor or whatever? They know to be back in time for their next class. Sheesh!

[Anonymous]

It doesn't take that much time to give an anonymous survey, and a principal doesn't have to be evil to drive out teachers. Some people are weak leaders because of other reasons. Maybe being afraid to take charge or to have an opinion or whatever. Or hiring awful people over and over again. This is true in any line of work. Some of the worst bosses I have had have sucked because they were afraid of conflict and had no backbone, but were nice enough one to one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It should be shared--it would encourage school leaders to take care to keep up morale. That helps kids in the end. It also would identify schools with possible problems that at least should be looked into, and maybe identify principals who need some extra support and mentoring. I don't think the MCPS leadership gives enough training to principals.

+1

I think they move them up too quickly. Our school has a new one this coming year and he's had just 10 years in education, including a few years teaching, then central office, then assistant principal, and now he's in charge of an entire school. I just don't think 10 years (in multiple positions) is enough time to gain all the experience needed. I think of a principal as someone who has "seen it all," not one someone who's merely on a stepping stone to their next promotion.

As one who's been in the system twice that long, I agree 100%. Most of the younger crew have to rely heavily on theory, as they haven't had the practical experiences to back them up. So they end up being Yes Men and Women instead of working FOR the kids and teachers.

Theory trumps wisdom.

so sad

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been at the same school for 15 years (hey, it's super convenient to my house), and this happens. A lot of times it goes with new leadership, but it's not always a sign of something bad. Many people stay in places and think about moving schools, grades, specialties, whatever, but stay because they know the culture of the school and it's comfortable (and they like it). When a principal moves on, that's an opportunity for others to move on as well, if they've been thinking about it. I wanted to switch from being a classroom teacher to a reading specialist. I thought about leaving when we got a new AP, but then a RS position opened up in our school, and I didn't have to. But if had moved, it wasn't a commentary on school leadership.

Of course, there are times when a new principal rolls in and that person is difficult to work with, you will see turnover at the end of the year. But you may also see that turnover if the principal is good and trying to start initiatives that staff don't want to bother with. We got a new principal after I had been at my school for about 5-6 years. The former principal was really lax about things like time sheets and leave slips. Teachers could skip out after dismissal for doctor appointments without taking leave. This way before telework days, but he never made people come in on professional days if they didn't need to. But he had built a relationship of trust with staff, and very few people took advantage. He moved up, and a new principal came in, who required staff to follow the rules. A lot of staff felt that was intrusive, because they were so used to the old way. So they left at the end of the new guy's first year. Does that mean that the new guy was inept?

I guess my point is that yes, an exodus could mean there's something wrong. But it could mean several others things as well, and there's no real way to know without interviewing staff, and who has that kind of time?

Teachers are professionals. Why should they have to fill out a leave slip to leave campus to go to the doctor or whatever? They know to be back in time for their next class. Sheesh!

We fill out leave in increments of 10 minutes.

We are salaried when they need us to work overtime (b/c we're "professionals") and hourly when they want to save money.

What a great gig, eh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's an admin survey that we take anonymously ever year, but it asks the wrong questions if it will truly be useful. Do I think my principal is fair and consistent in dealing with staff? Yes, we are all getting the same crappy support.

OMG that survey is the worst. My principal told staff that the questions pertaining to "school leaders" were referring to our leadership team which is comprised of peers. That way the responses would be positive instead of negative.