Soccer: WAGS and NCSL to merge this Fall

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing -- having all these separate leagues takes away from EVERYONE'S experience, at least if you're on an A team. It means you may be stuck playing St. Mary's in NCSL when you could be playing Arlington.

So "shut up and play NCSL if you think it's better" isn't a solution. A lot of top teams have left NCSL, so the competition has diminished while the travel distances have gone up.

I wonder if NCSL/WAGS will be able to lure some clubs back from VPL and EDP by cutting down on travel.

Everything is watered down these days. Too many teams per club. Top talent spread too wide and diluted in too many different places/leagues.

Travel used to be an elite experience and not meant for every child. It used to mean something to play travel. Now anyone with a checkbook can find a team.

This has meant middle class families are needlessly shelling out 3k per kid for crappy training and sucky competition.

Jon Stossel should do an expose or Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel on what robbery this is and how US soccer is not improving with more of this pay to play crap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Letter was kind of amusing - alluded to basically a long-running squabble between WAGS and NCSL that was put to rest via leadership changes. No good reason for them to be separate, at least at thsi stage of soccer in US.

Too little too late. This should have happened five years ago, but the egos in the leadership at WAGS and NCSL never could get it together. Now, this is more about survival, but practically speaking most big clubs have already pulled out now for CCL or VPL and ain't coming back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:(V)CCL was started because the elite teams outside of NOVA (Beach, Kickers/Strikers/SOCA, etc) had no local competition. Beach drew every top player in a 30 mile radius - the second best team in the area was Beach's B team. So they started a league to give themselves meaningful competition. The NOVA clubs (excluding RFCs brief tenure) didn't have the balls or the wits to create their own variant, they joined the existing VCCL as the "North", then everything kind of imploded with the development academy and you are left with this frankenstein CCL that doesn't make as much sense for the NOVA clubs.

CCL serves a purpose - its current problem is having north and south divisions, but cross play. Outside of that, it's reasonably coherent and the distances are reasonable.

WAGS is the problem for travel on a regular basis because the divisions aren't done geographically, even at the younger levels where they aren't tiered. That's how you end up with Waldorf vs. Winchester and 2 hour's each way. As I said up-thread, for a D1 game in each age group that may be appropriate, but there's no point in that for unranked ages (U11 and below) or even for divisions below the top 2 or 3.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing -- having all these separate leagues takes away from EVERYONE'S experience, at least if you're on an A team. It means you may be stuck playing St. Mary's in NCSL when you could be playing Arlington.

So "shut up and play NCSL if you think it's better" isn't a solution. A lot of top teams have left NCSL, so the competition has diminished while the travel distances have gone up.

I wonder if NCSL/WAGS will be able to lure some clubs back from VPL and EDP by cutting down on travel.

Everything is watered down these days. Too many teams per club. Top talent spread too wide and diluted in too many different places/leagues.

Travel used to be an elite experience and not meant for every child. It used to mean something to play travel. Now anyone with a checkbook can find a team.

This has meant middle class families are needlessly shelling out 3k per kid for crappy training and sucky competition.

Jon Stossel should do an expose or Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel on what robbery this is and how US soccer is not improving with more of this pay to play crap.

Clearly your kid and your kid's team are very superior. I get how frustrating it must be for you to demean your child by playing against such lowly competition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing -- having all these separate leagues takes away from EVERYONE'S experience, at least if you're on an A team. It means you may be stuck playing St. Mary's in NCSL when you could be playing Arlington.

So "shut up and play NCSL if you think it's better" isn't a solution. A lot of top teams have left NCSL, so the competition has diminished while the travel distances have gone up.

I wonder if NCSL/WAGS will be able to lure some clubs back from VPL and EDP by cutting down on travel.

Yes, "shut up and play NCSL" is an option, it is your own ego that refuses to accept it as an option. This thread was started to discuss the WAGS/NCSL merger and you and your ego completely hijacked it with your self absorbed anti CCL rant.

A. No, someone else hijacked it.

B. More than one person is making these points.

C. My kid isn't on an A team. If he was at that level, I'd probably look for the club that offered the least travel (combined practice and games -- obviously, it wouldn't make sense to drive 45 minutes to practice just to have shorter commutes for games).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing -- having all these separate leagues takes away from EVERYONE'S experience, at least if you're on an A team. It means you may be stuck playing St. Mary's in NCSL when you could be playing Arlington.

So "shut up and play NCSL if you think it's better" isn't a solution. A lot of top teams have left NCSL, so the competition has diminished while the travel distances have gone up.

I wonder if NCSL/WAGS will be able to lure some clubs back from VPL and EDP by cutting down on travel.

Everything is watered down these days. Too many teams per club. Top talent spread too wide and diluted in too many different places/leagues.

Travel used to be an elite experience and not meant for every child. It used to mean something to play travel. Now anyone with a checkbook can find a team.

This has meant middle class families are needlessly shelling out 3k per kid for crappy training and sucky competition.

Jon Stossel should do an expose or Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel on what robbery this is and how US soccer is not improving with more of this pay to play crap.

I think most families playing lower-division NCSL and ODSL are making informed decisions. And I think if you're good enough for the DA, go for it.

It's the people in between -- the ones suckered in by "elite" leagues of dubious "elite"ness -- that are sometimes getting fleeced. And that still depends from club to club. I'm not a great CCL fan, but if I lived in Loudoun and had one of the top soccer-playing kids in whatever age group -- sure, play for Loudoun. Great program, and I'd suck it up on the travel.

It shouldn't "mean something to play travel." I've seen kids who get attitudes when they make travel at age 8, and they stop learning immediately. Travel is supposed to be the journey, not the destination. Maybe the destination is pro soccer, maybe it's high school varsity, maybe it's just having a good experience playing relatively serious soccer with kids from the same town.

Also -- 3k is too much. If you're paying 3k, shop around. You can beat that price, especially if you're playing at any level below NCSL D1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing -- having all these separate leagues takes away from EVERYONE'S experience, at least if you're on an A team. It means you may be stuck playing St. Mary's in NCSL when you could be playing Arlington.

So "shut up and play NCSL if you think it's better" isn't a solution. A lot of top teams have left NCSL, so the competition has diminished while the travel distances have gone up.

I wonder if NCSL/WAGS will be able to lure some clubs back from VPL and EDP by cutting down on travel.

Everything is watered down these days. Too many teams per club. Top talent spread too wide and diluted in too many different places/leagues.

Travel used to be an elite experience and not meant for every child. It used to mean something to play travel. Now anyone with a checkbook can find a team.

This has meant middle class families are needlessly shelling out 3k per kid for crappy training and sucky competition.

Jon Stossel should do an expose or Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel on what robbery this is and how US soccer is not improving with more of this pay to play crap.

I think most families playing lower-division NCSL and ODSL are making informed decisions. And I think if you're good enough for the DA, go for it.

It's the people in between -- the ones suckered in by "elite" leagues of dubious "elite"ness -- that are sometimes getting fleeced. And that still depends from club to club. I'm not a great CCL fan, but if I lived in Loudoun and had one of the top soccer-playing kids in whatever age group -- sure, play for Loudoun. Great program, and I'd suck it up on the travel.

It shouldn't "mean something to play travel." I've seen kids who get attitudes when they make travel at age 8, and they stop learning immediately. Travel is supposed to be the journey, not the destination. Maybe the destination is pro soccer, maybe it's high school varsity, maybe it's just having a good experience playing relatively serious soccer with kids from the same town.

Also -- 3k is too much. If you're paying 3k, shop around. You can beat that price, especially if you're playing at any level below NCSL D1.

Totally agree with you, PP. Not paying anywhere near $3000 and have no expectation or desire for my son to play Division 1 in college. My kid loves to play, loves to compete, knows how to listen, wants to learn, and had outgrown rec. He is one of the better players on his NCSL team, we live fifteen minutes from practice, and he loves every minute of it all. Why wouldn't there be a league for kids like him? And why wouldn't I sign him up? It's healthy, we can afford it, we are all happy. Most people I know have the same mindset.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing -- having all these separate leagues takes away from EVERYONE'S experience, at least if you're on an A team. It means you may be stuck playing St. Mary's in NCSL when you could be playing Arlington.

So "shut up and play NCSL if you think it's better" isn't a solution. A lot of top teams have left NCSL, so the competition has diminished while the travel distances have gone up.

I wonder if NCSL/WAGS will be able to lure some clubs back from VPL and EDP by cutting down on travel.

Everything is watered down these days. Too many teams per club. Top talent spread too wide and diluted in too many different places/leagues.

Travel used to be an elite experience and not meant for every child. It used to mean something to play travel. Now anyone with a checkbook can find a team.

This has meant middle class families are needlessly shelling out 3k per kid for crappy training and sucky competition.

Jon Stossel should do an expose or Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel on what robbery this is and how US soccer is not improving with more of this pay to play crap.

I think most families playing lower-division NCSL and ODSL are making informed decisions. And I think if you're good enough for the DA, go for it.

It's the people in between -- the ones suckered in by "elite" leagues of dubious "elite"ness -- that are sometimes getting fleeced. And that still depends from club to club. I'm not a great CCL fan, but if I lived in Loudoun and had one of the top soccer-playing kids in whatever age group -- sure, play for Loudoun. Great program, and I'd suck it up on the travel.

It shouldn't "mean something to play travel." I've seen kids who get attitudes when they make travel at age 8, and they stop learning immediately. Travel is supposed to be the journey, not the destination. Maybe the destination is pro soccer, maybe it's high school varsity, maybe it's just having a good experience playing relatively serious soccer with kids from the same town.

Also -- 3k is too much. If you're paying 3k, shop around. You can beat that price, especially if you're playing at any level below NCSL D1.

Totally agree with you, PP. Not paying anywhere near $3000 and have no expectation or desire for my son to play Division 1 in college. My kid loves to play, loves to compete, knows how to listen, wants to learn, and had outgrown rec. He is one of the better players on his NCSL team, we live fifteen minutes from practice, and he loves every minute of it all. Why wouldn't there be a league for kids like him? And why wouldn't I sign him up? It's healthy, we can afford it, we are all happy. Most people I know have the same mindset.

There is a league for a kid like your son, you are currently in it. The difference between you and Captain Anti CCL is your expectations and ego have found balance. Captain Anti CCL would rather change an entire league to suit their own ego an ambition rather than play at an appropriate level that makes the most sense for their family.

You don't have to drive to VA Beach to play soccer, but you do have to give up a perceived advantage of playing in a particular league to play closer to home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing -- having all these separate leagues takes away from EVERYONE'S experience, at least if you're on an A team. It means you may be stuck playing St. Mary's in NCSL when you could be playing Arlington.

So "shut up and play NCSL if you think it's better" isn't a solution. A lot of top teams have left NCSL, so the competition has diminished while the travel distances have gone up.

I wonder if NCSL/WAGS will be able to lure some clubs back from VPL and EDP by cutting down on travel.

Yes, "shut up and play NCSL" is an option, it is your own ego that refuses to accept it as an option. This thread was started to discuss the WAGS/NCSL merger and you and your ego completely hijacked it with your self absorbed anti CCL rant.

A. No, someone else hijacked it.

B. More than one person is making these points.

C. My kid isn't on an A team. If he was at that level, I'd probably look for the club that offered the least travel (combined practice and games -- obviously, it wouldn't make sense to drive 45 minutes to practice just to have shorter commutes for games).

Funny, the thread is clearly labeled "WAGS and NCSL to merge this Fall". Exactly what does CCL games in VA Beach have to do with the OP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing -- having all these separate leagues takes away from EVERYONE'S experience, at least if you're on an A team. It means you may be stuck playing St. Mary's in NCSL when you could be playing Arlington.

So "shut up and play NCSL if you think it's better" isn't a solution. A lot of top teams have left NCSL, so the competition has diminished while the travel distances have gone up.

I wonder if NCSL/WAGS will be able to lure some clubs back from VPL and EDP by cutting down on travel.

Everything is watered down these days. Too many teams per club. Top talent spread too wide and diluted in too many different places/leagues.

Travel used to be an elite experience and not meant for every child. It used to mean something to play travel. Now anyone with a checkbook can find a team.

This has meant middle class families are needlessly shelling out 3k per kid for crappy training and sucky competition.

Jon Stossel should do an expose or Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel on what robbery this is and how US soccer is not improving with more of this pay to play crap.

I think most families playing lower-division NCSL and ODSL are making informed decisions. And I think if you're good enough for the DA, go for it.

It's the people in between -- the ones suckered in by "elite" leagues of dubious "elite"ness -- that are sometimes getting fleeced. And that still depends from club to club. I'm not a great CCL fan, but if I lived in Loudoun and had one of the top soccer-playing kids in whatever age group -- sure, play for Loudoun. Great program, and I'd suck it up on the travel.

It shouldn't "mean something to play travel." I've seen kids who get attitudes when they make travel at age 8, and they stop learning immediately. Travel is supposed to be the journey, not the destination. Maybe the destination is pro soccer, maybe it's high school varsity, maybe it's just having a good experience playing relatively serious soccer with kids from the same town.

Also -- 3k is too much. If you're paying 3k, shop around. You can beat that price, especially if you're playing at any level below NCSL D1.

Totally agree with you, PP. Not paying anywhere near $3000 and have no expectation or desire for my son to play Division 1 in college. My kid loves to play, loves to compete, knows how to listen, wants to learn, and had outgrown rec. He is one of the better players on his NCSL team, we live fifteen minutes from practice, and he loves every minute of it all. Why wouldn't there be a league for kids like him? And why wouldn't I sign him up? It's healthy, we can afford it, we are all happy. Most people I know have the same mindset.

There is a league for a kid like your son, you are currently in it. The difference between you and Captain Anti CCL is your expectations and ego have found balance. Captain Anti CCL would rather change an entire league to suit their own ego an ambition rather than play at an appropriate level that makes the most sense for their family.

You don't have to drive to VA Beach to play soccer, but you do have to give up a perceived advantage of playing in a particular league to play closer to home.

I can't speak for all the elite-league skeptics in here (again, more than one), but let's reiterate -- it's not just that CCL/VPL/EDP affects the parents in THOSE leagues. It dilutes NCSL competition and adds travel time. (And poor old ODSL, which does a lot of things right but now has such a small number of clubs that you can pretty much count on traveling to Stafford or Clarke far more often than you want.)

Despite the CCL defensiveness, it's not all about CCL. You could easily argue VPL makes much less sense than CCL. Hard to tell with EDP -- it might depend how much each team ends up traveling.

So the relevance to this conversation is that, with an NCSL/WAGS merger and talk of "regionalization," they may be able to offer an alternative -- if not to CCL, then certainly to VPL or EDP.

And if you've talked to any soccer parents outside the CCL bubble, you know this is important to them! A lot of Fairfax County parents would like for their kids to be able to play competitive games without (A) practicing 30 minutes from home or (B) driving to Virginia Beach for games. Is that really so hard to understand?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing -- having all these separate leagues takes away from EVERYONE'S experience, at least if you're on an A team. It means you may be stuck playing St. Mary's in NCSL when you could be playing Arlington.

So "shut up and play NCSL if you think it's better" isn't a solution. A lot of top teams have left NCSL, so the competition has diminished while the travel distances have gone up.

I wonder if NCSL/WAGS will be able to lure some clubs back from VPL and EDP by cutting down on travel.

Everything is watered down these days. Too many teams per club. Top talent spread too wide and diluted in too many different places/leagues.

Travel used to be an elite experience and not meant for every child. It used to mean something to play travel. Now anyone with a checkbook can find a team.

This has meant middle class families are needlessly shelling out 3k per kid for crappy training and sucky competition.

Jon Stossel should do an expose or Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel on what robbery this is and how US soccer is not improving with more of this pay to play crap.

I think most families playing lower-division NCSL and ODSL are making informed decisions. And I think if you're good enough for the DA, go for it.

It's the people in between -- the ones suckered in by "elite" leagues of dubious "elite"ness -- that are sometimes getting fleeced. And that still depends from club to club. I'm not a great CCL fan, but if I lived in Loudoun and had one of the top soccer-playing kids in whatever age group -- sure, play for Loudoun. Great program, and I'd suck it up on the travel.

It shouldn't "mean something to play travel." I've seen kids who get attitudes when they make travel at age 8, and they stop learning immediately. Travel is supposed to be the journey, not the destination. Maybe the destination is pro soccer, maybe it's high school varsity, maybe it's just having a good experience playing relatively serious soccer with kids from the same town.

Also -- 3k is too much. If you're paying 3k, shop around. You can beat that price, especially if you're playing at any level below NCSL D1.

Totally agree with you, PP. Not paying anywhere near $3000 and have no expectation or desire for my son to play Division 1 in college. My kid loves to play, loves to compete, knows how to listen, wants to learn, and had outgrown rec. He is one of the better players on his NCSL team, we live fifteen minutes from practice, and he loves every minute of it all. Why wouldn't there be a league for kids like him? And why wouldn't I sign him up? It's healthy, we can afford it, we are all happy. Most people I know have the same mindset.

There is a league for a kid like your son, you are currently in it. The difference between you and Captain Anti CCL is your expectations and ego have found balance. Captain Anti CCL would rather change an entire league to suit their own ego an ambition rather than play at an appropriate level that makes the most sense for their family.

You don't have to drive to VA Beach to play soccer, but you do have to give up a perceived advantage of playing in a particular league to play closer to home.

I can't speak for all the elite-league skeptics in here (again, more than one), but let's reiterate -- it's not just that CCL/VPL/EDP affects the parents in THOSE leagues. It dilutes NCSL competition and adds travel time. (And poor old ODSL, which does a lot of things right but now has such a small number of clubs that you can pretty much count on traveling to Stafford or Clarke far more often than you want.)

Despite the CCL defensiveness, it's not all about CCL. You could easily argue VPL makes much less sense than CCL. Hard to tell with EDP -- it might depend how much each team ends up traveling.

So the relevance to this conversation is that, with an NCSL/WAGS merger and talk of "regionalization," they may be able to offer an alternative -- if not to CCL, then certainly to VPL or EDP.

And if you've talked to any soccer parents outside the CCL bubble, you know this is important to them! A lot of Fairfax County parents would like for their kids to be able to play competitive games without (A) practicing 30 minutes from home or (B) driving to Virginia Beach for games. Is that really so hard to understand?

It isn't hard to understand and neither is the solution. Play in NCSL and work within those parameters to create your local schedule utopia.

You clearly do not understand the philosophy behind CCL or NPL's governing body U.S. Club Soccer and how these leagues are very very different than WAGS, NCSL or ODSL.

The whole point of these leagues is to create a club centric model that focuses on development. These leagues give clubs that ability to freely move players up or down in season in order ensure that the player is properly challenged. CCL in particular has very strong anti poaching rules that force clubs to develop more and recruit players less from rival clubs.

The fact that game schedules fro both leagues are Club vs Club allows a coach to manage both A and B teams without conflict, or different teams all together. This offers coaches the opportunity to see more of their programs players on game day.

WAGS, NCSL and ODSL on the other hand are 'team centric" leagues that are purely results oriented for the team with promotion and relegation. This model ignores the fact that a club has A and B teams and makes player movement in season prohibitive. These leagues only care about the singular "team" and not the group of kids in the larger cohort.

If you took ten minutes of your precious time and understood the basic philosophical differences between the leagues the "why's of it all" might make more sense to you. Clearly, you are an uneducated consumer in this regards. Did you not look to see what teams were in your league before you signed onto the team? If not, and you are unhappy you have only yourself to blame. If you did know, and you still signed on and are unhappy, you still have only yourself to blame. But CCL and NPL are not going to change for you, accept and drive to VA Beach, or leave the team and drive to Winchester. But whatever you do decide, please just shut up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It isn't hard to understand and neither is the solution. Play in NCSL and work within those parameters to create your local schedule utopia.

You clearly do not understand the philosophy behind CCL or NPL's governing body U.S. Club Soccer and how these leagues are very very different than WAGS, NCSL or ODSL.

The whole point of these leagues is to create a club centric model that focuses on development. These leagues give clubs that ability to freely move players up or down in season in order ensure that the player is properly challenged. CCL in particular has very strong anti poaching rules that force clubs to develop more and recruit players less from rival clubs.

The fact that game schedules fro both leagues are Club vs Club allows a coach to manage both A and B teams without conflict, or different teams all together. This offers coaches the opportunity to see more of their programs players on game day.

WAGS, NCSL and ODSL on the other hand are 'team centric" leagues that are purely results oriented for the team with promotion and relegation. This model ignores the fact that a club has A and B teams and makes player movement in season prohibitive. These leagues only care about the singular "team" and not the group of kids in the larger cohort.

If you took ten minutes of your precious time and understood the basic philosophical differences between the leagues the "why's of it all" might make more sense to you. Clearly, you are an uneducated consumer in this regards. Did you not look to see what teams were in your league before you signed onto the team? If not, and you are unhappy you have only yourself to blame. If you did know, and you still signed on and are unhappy, you still have only yourself to blame. But CCL and NPL are not going to change for you, accept and drive to VA Beach, or leave the team and drive to Winchester. But whatever you do decide, please just shut up.

Stop with the development crap you obviously work for a CCL club. If you knew what your talking about you would know they hardly ever move players up or down after their initial assessment at age 9. Only reason clubs do what they do is money. So they can group all the teams in one place on the same day, its about hiring fewer coaches and get more out of field time, has nothing to do with development.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It isn't hard to understand and neither is the solution. Play in NCSL and work within those parameters to create your local schedule utopia.

You clearly do not understand the philosophy behind CCL or NPL's governing body U.S. Club Soccer and how these leagues are very very different than WAGS, NCSL or ODSL.

The whole point of these leagues is to create a club centric model that focuses on development. These leagues give clubs that ability to freely move players up or down in season in order ensure that the player is properly challenged. CCL in particular has very strong anti poaching rules that force clubs to develop more and recruit players less from rival clubs.

The fact that game schedules fro both leagues are Club vs Club allows a coach to manage both A and B teams without conflict, or different teams all together. This offers coaches the opportunity to see more of their programs players on game day.

WAGS, NCSL and ODSL on the other hand are 'team centric" leagues that are purely results oriented for the team with promotion and relegation. This model ignores the fact that a club has A and B teams and makes player movement in season prohibitive. These leagues only care about the singular "team" and not the group of kids in the larger cohort.

If you took ten minutes of your precious time and understood the basic philosophical differences between the leagues the "why's of it all" might make more sense to you. Clearly, you are an uneducated consumer in this regards. Did you not look to see what teams were in your league before you signed onto the team? If not, and you are unhappy you have only yourself to blame. If you did know, and you still signed on and are unhappy, you still have only yourself to blame. But CCL and NPL are not going to change for you, accept and drive to VA Beach, or leave the team and drive to Winchester. But whatever you do decide, please just shut up.

Stop with the development crap you obviously work for a CCL club. If you knew what your talking about you would know they hardly ever move players up or down after their initial assessment at age 9. Only reason clubs do what they do is money. So they can group all the teams in one place on the same day, its about hiring fewer coaches and get more out of field time, has nothing to do with development.

I think this is the thread for you:
http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/549981.page

I don't work for a CCL club and if there is no movement in your club that is your clubs fault, not the fault of the league. Take it up with your coach.

Yes it is terrible that field space is scheduled efficiently, and that one qualified coach can train multiple teams versus dad coaches in WAGS, NCSL or ODSL. Is that really better? Is it better to have your coach leave at halftime to make another game across town?

CCL obviously doesn't work for you so why not just leave? It is only soccer.

[Anonymous]

It's like talking to a brick wall.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's like talking to a brick wall.....

that was directed to this guy
Stop with the development crap you obviously work for a CCL club. If you knew what your talking about you would know they hardly ever move players up or down after their initial assessment at age 9. Only reason clubs do what they do is money. So they can group all the teams in one place on the same day, its about hiring fewer coaches and get more out of field time, has nothing to do with development.