As tuition continues to climb in price = easier to get into?

[Anonymous]

$65,000 is just an absurd amount of money for 1 year of undergrad. I went to an expensive private college. I was poor an got a financial aid package but it included loans and work study. It took years to work up the pay scale while paying off college loans. Now we are at the point where we have no debt and will not qualify for financial aid. My overall living conditions are a heck of a lot better than when I was a kid. But there is no way that we could afford $65,000 a year for our kids to go to college. So we will cross off many schools just because of price. My DC wanted to look at Tufts, Bowdoin, BC, UCLA, Brown, GT, Etc and we had to say no to all of them. That is just reality.

[Anonymous]

When colleges compute your tuition amount, they expect the money to come from 3 sources: 1) Past earnings (savings), 2) Current earnings ((how much $$ you + your student can contribute this year) and 3) Future earnings (loans). if you are missing a piece of this puzzle (savings) or don't agree with their methodology (loans), find another school.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]The thread on the easiest prestigious schools to get into made me think about this, especially for American students. The most expensive private schools are now around $ 60-65k all in. Let's assume this trend continues over the next 15 years with schools topping out around $85-90k a year, maybe even closer to $100k, how many Americans will be able to afford that? Do you think schools will have fewer students competing for admittance simply because they can't afford to pay even 50%?

I know rich international students will always be in the background. But American schools can't afford to fill ~ 50% or more of their freshman classes with foreigners just in terms of the optics. Simply put, it'll look bad.

Just curious if you think elite private education will [b]go back to being a luxury for the wealthy[/b] in the way it was before WWII.[/quote]

An elite education is already a luxury for the wealthy, but it's also available to the poor and talented, who qualify for FA.

Before WWII, smart kids who were poor got scholarships. That's how my grandfather ended up at Yale. Middle class kids went to public schools or didn't go to college.
[b]
An elite education is not available today to middle class kids. [/b]

[/quote]

Not true whatsoever. Elite institutions are extremely affordable for the middle class. We make $150K (which is hardly even middle class) and my child goes to an elite school for LESS than what we would have paid at UMD.

It is time to do some research and see what aid is really out there before you go spouting lies. [/quote]

This is true. From Harvard's website:

20% of our parents have total incomes less than $65,000 and are not expected to contribute.
Families with incomes between $65,000 and $150,000 will contribute from 0-10% of their income, and those with incomes above $150,000 will be asked to pay proportionately more than 10%, based on their individual circumstances. Families at all income levels who have significant assets will continue to pay more than those in less fortunate circumstances.
Home equity and retirement assets are not considered in our assessment of financial need.

Although this won't apply to you if you're one of those loons who thinks making $250K is middle class.[/quote]

+1. There is a lot of misinformation out there about the cost of elite colleges. 60% of students there receive aid and the average package is $44000.[/quote]

If the average package is $44000, then what they owe is 4*60-44 = 196k. If this average package goes to the average HHI of 90k, then (ignoring taxes), they would owe two full years of income per child. Most people no way can do that, so they are priced out.[/quote]

The average package to a family with a HHI of 90k is not 44k. That is an overall average. The average package to a family of 4 with 90k HHI is very close to full coverage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thread on the easiest prestigious schools to get into made me think about this, especially for American students. The most expensive private schools are now around $ 60-65k all in. Let's assume this trend continues over the next 15 years with schools topping out around $85-90k a year, maybe even closer to $100k, how many Americans will be able to afford that? Do you think schools will have fewer students competing for admittance simply because they can't afford to pay even 50%?

I know rich international students will always be in the background. But American schools can't afford to fill ~ 50% or more of their freshman classes with foreigners just in terms of the optics. Simply put, it'll look bad.

Just curious if you think elite private education will go back to being a luxury for the wealthy in the way it was before WWII.

An elite education is already a luxury for the wealthy, but it's also available to the poor and talented, who qualify for FA.

Before WWII, smart kids who were poor got scholarships. That's how my grandfather ended up at Yale. Middle class kids went to public schools or didn't go to college.

An elite education is not available today to middle class kids.

Not true whatsoever. Elite institutions are extremely affordable for the middle class. We make $150K (which is hardly even middle class) and my child goes to an elite school for LESS than what we would have paid at UMD.

It is time to do some research and see what aid is really out there before you go spouting lies.

This is true. From Harvard's website:

20% of our parents have total incomes less than $65,000 and are not expected to contribute.
Families with incomes between $65,000 and $150,000 will contribute from 0-10% of their income, and those with incomes above $150,000 will be asked to pay proportionately more than 10%, based on their individual circumstances. Families at all income levels who have significant assets will continue to pay more than those in less fortunate circumstances.
Home equity and retirement assets are not considered in our assessment of financial need.

Although this won't apply to you if you're one of those loons who thinks making $250K is middle class.

+1. There is a lot of misinformation out there about the cost of elite colleges. 60% of students there receive aid and the average package is $44000.

If the average package is $44000, then what they owe is 4*60-44 = 196k. If this average package goes to the average HHI of 90k, then (ignoring taxes), they would owe two full years of income per child. Most people no way can do that, so they are priced out.

OMG. Package per YEAR. Not $44,000 for all four years. *facepalm*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When colleges compute your tuition amount, they expect the money to come from 3 sources: 1) Past earnings (savings), 2) Current earnings ((how much $$ you + your student can contribute this year) and 3) Future earnings (loans). if you are missing a piece of this puzzle (savings) or don't agree with their methodology (loans), find another school.

+1

We found other schools. DC applied only to

--in-state publics
--OOS publics with affordable (for us) OOS cost of attendance (i.e., NOT any California school or Michigan)
--private schools that offer merit aid to students like DC. That means we eliminated all privates that give only financial aid, and we eliminated merit-giving privates where DC was unlikely to be a top applicant.

Because DC is a strong student, there were lots of options. (And in the end, 5 colleges offered DC enough merit aid to bring the COA close to our in-state flagship.*) There aren't as many options for kids who aren't strong students.

*I don't think it is a coincidence that all these colleges brought the COA close to our in-state flagship. I think they know what they are competing with.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When colleges compute your tuition amount, they expect the money to come from 3 sources: 1) Past earnings (savings), 2) Current earnings ((how much $$ you + your student can contribute this year) and 3) Future earnings (loans). if you are missing a piece of this puzzle (savings) or don't agree with their methodology (loans), find another school.

This is exactly what many parents with comfortable incomes are doing. They are asking how a college education can be worth $250k when the same education is available in-state for $100k or less. If you have the savings and income to send your kid to one of these schools, congratulations!!You are more than comfortable--you are wealthy. More and more, private colleges will be populated by the children of the wealthy, like you. Parents who cannot justify the unreasonably high cost of a college education will and are looking elsewhere. Fact: my DC turned down two highly selective colleges to attend one that accepts 65% of its applicants. Why? Cost, why else?

[Anonymous]

Meant to say "unreasonably high cost of a private college education"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No one here is arguing that $250K is middle class. They're saying that even that crazy high income is not enough to pay $60k/year/kid out of pocket. Now if you've been making $250K consistently since your 18yo was an infant and also correctly predicted the cost of college 18 years in the future, then maybe you've got $240K saved up per kid. Otherwise, even though you're in the top 5% of HHI, it will still be tight for you.

This state of affairs is completely insane and the culprit is obviously the student loan system combined with exploding administrative budgets. The administrator grift has been working til now because there can be no secure middle class life without a college degree, but now stagnant wage growth + skyrocketing tuition is making the grift unsustainable. I have no idea how this can be fixed but something clearly has to give.

I'm sure someone's going to respond to this post telling me how they saved $500K per kid on a HHI of $50K all by careful budgeting and prioritizing. Or saying "just go to a state school!!11" as if those are much cheaper these days. Or that "you can make a great living in the trades if you're not too snobby to get your hands dirty!!1" That's not the point. The point is that under no circumstances should any college degree cost as much as a freaking house.

Co-signed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When colleges compute your tuition amount, they expect the money to come from 3 sources: 1) Past earnings (savings), 2) Current earnings ((how much $$ you + your student can contribute this year) and 3) Future earnings (loans). if you are missing a piece of this puzzle (savings) or don't agree with their methodology (loans), find another school.

This is exactly what many parents with comfortable incomes are doing. They are asking how a college education can be worth $250k when the same education is available in-state for $100k or less. If you have the savings and income to send your kid to one of these schools, congratulations!!You are more than comfortable--you are wealthy. More and more, private colleges will be populated by the children of the wealthy, like you. Parents who cannot justify the unreasonably high cost of a college education will and are looking elsewhere. Fact: my DC turned down two highly selective colleges to attend one that accepts 65% of its applicants. Why? Cost, why else?

Thus proving the point of the OP.

[Anonymous]

Well here's another example for you. I hear all the time people mentioning that they're "only" saving enough to send DC to public school. If DC wants private, he/she will have to make up the difference. But if that difference entails six figure loans, will many of them really want to do it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would put Fordham in the category of schools that are so expensive that no one applies and then they have to take anyone that can afford to pay the tuition. Probably urban schools like UCLA, NYU. GW.

# of applicants in 2015

NYU - 60,000
GWU - 25,000
Fordham - 41,000

According to their website, the number of NYU applications received was not only the largest ever, but also the largest increase year-to-year since 1999.

maybe you and I have different definitions of "no one applies"?

Don't more people apply these days anyway both young and old and more people apply to more colleges than before. So this number may be deceiving. It might be more accurate to follow the average SAT or ACT score or high school GPA at the college to see if the school is accepting stronger or weaker students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When colleges compute your tuition amount, they expect the money to come from 3 sources: 1) Past earnings (savings), 2) Current earnings ((how much $$ you + your student can contribute this year) and 3) Future earnings (loans). if you are missing a piece of this puzzle (savings) or don't agree with their methodology (loans), find another school.

+1

We found other schools. DC applied only to

--in-state publics
--OOS publics with affordable (for us) OOS cost of attendance (i.e., NOT any California school or Michigan)
--private schools that offer merit aid to students like DC. That means we eliminated all privates that give only financial aid, and we eliminated merit-giving privates where DC was unlikely to be a top applicant.

Because DC is a strong student, there were lots of options. (And in the end, 5 colleges offered DC enough merit aid to bring the COA close to our in-state flagship.*) There aren't as many options for kids who aren't strong students.

*I don't think it is a coincidence that all these colleges brought the COA close to our in-state flagship. I think they know what they are competing with.)

This is my problem. My DS's standardized test scores are in the 95th percentile. But he is lazy and his grades are not great. So, no way we are getting aid at a private, even one that is not top, even one that has relatively open admission. We need to go to one of our state schools, even though our HHI is $250k. I guess it is fine. Classes with 100 kids and a commuter atmosphere won't really stop learning if he wants to do it.

[Anonymous]

If schools think you have $$$ it is easier to get in at many privates if it seems you may be willing/able to pay full freight. Our DS got into all of privates where he applied but did not get any merit aid because his grades are not great. I know of stronger students that were rejected from these schools and while I love my DC to death we just are not going to pay 60-70 K for college that is not top 20-25. He will attend a solid state school and if he does well and wants to go to grad school we will help him stay out of debt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When colleges compute your tuition amount, they expect the money to come from 3 sources: 1) Past earnings (savings), 2) Current earnings ((how much $$ you + your student can contribute this year) and 3) Future earnings (loans). if you are missing a piece of this puzzle (savings) or don't agree with their methodology (loans), find another school.

+1

We found other schools. DC applied only to

--in-state publics
--OOS publics with affordable (for us) OOS cost of attendance (i.e., NOT any California school or Michigan)
--private schools that offer merit aid to students like DC. That means we eliminated all privates that give only financial aid, and we eliminated merit-giving privates where DC was unlikely to be a top applicant.

Because DC is a strong student, there were lots of options. (And in the end, 5 colleges offered DC enough merit aid to bring the COA close to our in-state flagship.*) There aren't as many options for kids who aren't strong students.

*I don't think it is a coincidence that all these colleges brought the COA close to our in-state flagship. I think they know what they are competing with.)

Curious, what were the schools that offered that much merit aid? And how strong of a student do you have to be? Did your DC get into state flagship school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If schools think you have $$$ it is easier to get in at many privates if it seems you may be willing/able to pay full freight. Our DS got into all of privates where he applied but did not get any merit aid because his grades are not great. I know of stronger students that were rejected from these schools and while I love my DC to death we just are not going to pay 60-70 K for college that is not top 20-25. He will attend a solid state school and if he does well and wants to go to grad school we will help him stay out of debt.

Exactly. We're in the same boat. No merit aid, but acceptances to less selective SLACs. All great colleges, and if we didn't notice the $60k (maybe if we had $500k hhi or more), we'd pay it. But we will notice it a lot (hhi about $200k), so my beloved child will have to eek out an education at one of our fine state institutions!