Mount Vernon?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is it that none of the elementary schools that feed into West Springfield are Title 1, whereas all but one (the AAP center) of the elementary schools that feed into Lee High School are Title 1? If that's not discriminatory, I don't know what is.

Both the Lee and West Springfield boundaries are relatively compact, and on their face they don't look obviously gerrymandered to create an affluent school and a poor school. But Lee is near the older part of Springfield, with lots of garden apartments and small homes built in the 1950s, whereas most of the housing in the West Springfield district was built later and commands a higher price. You could swap some of the WS and Lee feeders to promote greater SES balance, but you'd have checker-board attendance areas and students with longer trips to school.

Totally disagree. Just look at the Saratoga area. It has been totally gerrymandered. It is part of the Lee HS pyramid, the Mount Vernon supervisor/school board district, and in a different Congressional district that those directly across Pohick Creek. Both West Springfield and South County are closer than Lee HS, not to mention that kids in that neighborhood have to cross two parkways and an interstate to reach the MS and HS they're zoned for. What's happened in Saratoga is the middle class and affluent families that live there use private school or pupil place to other schools and, as a result, even Saratoga ES has suffered. Perfect example of a neighborhood that is relatively middle class and affluent, but for which the the politicians have gerrymandered into districts that don't benefit them - what happens? The middle class flees.

Lee has been a comparatively low-performing school for a long time. That impacts the prices in places like Saratoga. I don't understand why someone buys a lower-priced house and then expects to get redistricted to a school that will boost their home equity overnight. There are lots of areas all over the county where kids don't attend the high schools closest to their houses.

[Anonymous]

Perhaps a school closer to Lake Braddock could be moved to accommodate Saratoga? Or perhaps Saratoga should be moved to South County, which is also in the Mt. Vernon district- so that would make sense for voting representation. I think Saratoga voters are trying to garner attention to the fact that the current system is broken. Saratoga doesn't really belong at Lee because Lee is not their "neighborhood" school, but it's up to FCPS to figure out who does. It's going to have a domino effect, but it needs to occur. A lot of issues were never resolved during the South County HS opening.

[Anonymous]

I've seen Edison mentioned a lot in this thread. Is it also bad like Mount Vernon? Dangerous? A lot of fights? What is the perception of Edison? I have heard it has a bad reputation but then I have also met parents who had kids graduate from there who seem like it was fine. So what is true?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is it that none of the elementary schools that feed into West Springfield are Title 1, whereas all but one (the AAP center) of the elementary schools that feed into Lee High School are Title 1? If that's not discriminatory, I don't know what is.

Both the Lee and West Springfield boundaries are relatively compact, and on their face they don't look obviously gerrymandered to create an affluent school and a poor school. But Lee is near the older part of Springfield, with lots of garden apartments and small homes built in the 1950s, whereas most of the housing in the West Springfield district was built later and commands a higher price. You could swap some of the WS and Lee feeders to promote greater SES balance, but you'd have checker-board attendance areas and students with longer trips to school.

Totally disagree. Just look at the Saratoga area. It has been totally gerrymandered. It is part of the Lee HS pyramid, the Mount Vernon supervisor/school board district, and in a different Congressional district that those directly across Pohick Creek. Both West Springfield and South County are closer than Lee HS, not to mention that kids in that neighborhood have to cross two parkways and an interstate to reach the MS and HS they're zoned for. What's happened in Saratoga is the middle class and affluent families that live there use private school or pupil place to other schools and, as a result, even Saratoga ES has suffered. Perfect example of a neighborhood that is relatively middle class and affluent, but for which the the politicians have gerrymandered into districts that don't benefit them - what happens? The middle class flees.

I don't think you can argue with the fact that the West Springfield and Lee districts are relatively compact. Look at the Lake Braddock or Oakton boundaries if you want to see some odd-looking boundaries.

But I thought you were complaining that FCPS was concentrating poverty in Lee. Instead, you appear to be complaining that the most affluent area zoned for Lee ought to go to another school - West Springfield or South County - instead. So who do you propose to send to under-enrolled Lee in their place?

Not arguing anything other than the fact that Saratoga has clearly been gerrymandered. If you think the Lee HS pyramid is compact, I suggest you take a geometry course. I don't see anything compact about the fact that the Saratoga neighborhood has 2 HS/MS's closer to it, but is forced to cross 2 parkways and an interstate to attend Key and Lee.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is it that none of the elementary schools that feed into West Springfield are Title 1, whereas all but one (the AAP center) of the elementary schools that feed into Lee High School are Title 1? If that's not discriminatory, I don't know what is.

Both the Lee and West Springfield boundaries are relatively compact, and on their face they don't look obviously gerrymandered to create an affluent school and a poor school. But Lee is near the older part of Springfield, with lots of garden apartments and small homes built in the 1950s, whereas most of the housing in the West Springfield district was built later and commands a higher price. You could swap some of the WS and Lee feeders to promote greater SES balance, but you'd have checker-board attendance areas and students with longer trips to school.

Totally disagree. Just look at the Saratoga area. It has been totally gerrymandered. It is part of the Lee HS pyramid, the Mount Vernon supervisor/school board district, and in a different Congressional district that those directly across Pohick Creek. Both West Springfield and South County are closer than Lee HS, not to mention that kids in that neighborhood have to cross two parkways and an interstate to reach the MS and HS they're zoned for. What's happened in Saratoga is the middle class and affluent families that live there use private school or pupil place to other schools and, as a result, even Saratoga ES has suffered. Perfect example of a neighborhood that is relatively middle class and affluent, but for which the the politicians have gerrymandered into districts that don't benefit them - what happens? The middle class flees.

Lee has been a comparatively low-performing school for a long time. That impacts the prices in places like Saratoga. I don't understand why someone buys a lower-priced house and then expects to get redistricted to a school that will boost their home equity overnight. There are lots of areas all over the county where kids don't attend the high schools closest to their houses.

Who said anyone expects that? Just making he point that the Saratoga neighborhood has clearly been gerrymandered. And, so be it. That's life, and, certainly anyone doing their homework before buying there will realize it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is it that none of the elementary schools that feed into West Springfield are Title 1, whereas all but one (the AAP center) of the elementary schools that feed into Lee High School are Title 1? If that's not discriminatory, I don't know what is.

Both the Lee and West Springfield boundaries are relatively compact, and on their face they don't look obviously gerrymandered to create an affluent school and a poor school. But Lee is near the older part of Springfield, with lots of garden apartments and small homes built in the 1950s, whereas most of the housing in the West Springfield district was built later and commands a higher price. You could swap some of the WS and Lee feeders to promote greater SES balance, but you'd have checker-board attendance areas and students with longer trips to school.

Totally disagree. Just look at the Saratoga area. It has been totally gerrymandered. It is part of the Lee HS pyramid, the Mount Vernon supervisor/school board district, and in a different Congressional district that those directly across Pohick Creek. Both West Springfield and South County are closer than Lee HS, not to mention that kids in that neighborhood have to cross two parkways and an interstate to reach the MS and HS they're zoned for. What's happened in Saratoga is the middle class and affluent families that live there use private school or pupil place to other schools and, as a result, even Saratoga ES has suffered. Perfect example of a neighborhood that is relatively middle class and affluent, but for which the the politicians have gerrymandered into districts that don't benefit them - what happens? The middle class flees.

Lee has been a comparatively low-performing school for a long time. That impacts the prices in places like Saratoga. I don't understand why someone buys a lower-priced house and then expects to get redistricted to a school that will boost their home equity overnight. There are lots of areas all over the county where kids don't attend the high schools closest to their houses.

Who said anyone expects that? Just making he point that the Saratoga neighborhood has clearly been gerrymandered. And, so be it. That's life, and, certainly anyone doing their homework before buying there will realize it.

There is a parent or parents up thread saying that this area shouldn't have to wait for economic development policies that could take ten years to have an impact. And that politicians who vote for the status quo should be voted out. I can sympathize. But, we paid a lot more for a lot less house a lot further out that were solidly zoned for good schools. I do not agree with parents who want to buy in the biggest house they can in the least expensive school zone, and then act like FCPS should rezone them. They should have know where they were buying. If they didn't want Lee or Mount Vernon, they should have paid more, or bought less house elsewhere. Everyone in the DC metro area has to make a cost/ location/ size/ schools housing trade off.

[Anonymous]

Saratoga is great neighborhood, with an excellent commute to the new National Geospatial Agency and Fort Belvoir. The educated people who work in those areas want to live close to work - and they expect good schools for their kids. The county can't continue to think that the schools in this area are populated by transient military folks who only stay a few years, so don't care as much about the schools. The Saratoga area has changed so much. People are staying longer and demanding more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've seen Edison mentioned a lot in this thread. Is it also bad like Mount Vernon? Dangerous? A lot of fights? What is the perception of Edison? I have heard it has a bad reputation but then I have also met parents who had kids graduate from there who seem like it was fine. So what is true?

Edison seems to have a better reputation than Lee, at least on this board. Edison and Hayfield are probably the same reputation-wise. Kingstowne and the surrounding communities in that part of the county that feed into Edison and Hayfield appear nicer than many of the neighborhoods that feed into Lee.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is it that none of the elementary schools that feed into West Springfield are Title 1, whereas all but one (the AAP center) of the elementary schools that feed into Lee High School are Title 1? If that's not discriminatory, I don't know what is.

Both the Lee and West Springfield boundaries are relatively compact, and on their face they don't look obviously gerrymandered to create an affluent school and a poor school. But Lee is near the older part of Springfield, with lots of garden apartments and small homes built in the 1950s, whereas most of the housing in the West Springfield district was built later and commands a higher price. You could swap some of the WS and Lee feeders to promote greater SES balance, but you'd have checker-board attendance areas and students with longer trips to school.

Totally disagree. Just look at the Saratoga area. It has been totally gerrymandered. It is part of the Lee HS pyramid, the Mount Vernon supervisor/school board district, and in a different Congressional district that those directly across Pohick Creek. Both West Springfield and South County are closer than Lee HS, not to mention that kids in that neighborhood have to cross two parkways and an interstate to reach the MS and HS they're zoned for. What's happened in Saratoga is the middle class and affluent families that live there use private school or pupil place to other schools and, as a result, even Saratoga ES has suffered. Perfect example of a neighborhood that is relatively middle class and affluent, but for which the the politicians have gerrymandered into districts that don't benefit them - what happens? The middle class flees.

Lee has been a comparatively low-performing school for a long time. That impacts the prices in places like Saratoga. I don't understand why someone buys a lower-priced house and then expects to get redistricted to a school that will boost their home equity overnight. There are lots of areas all over the county where kids don't attend the high schools closest to their houses.

Who said anyone expects that? Just making he point that the Saratoga neighborhood has clearly been gerrymandered. And, so be it. That's life, and, certainly anyone doing their homework before buying there will realize it.

There is a parent or parents up thread saying that this area shouldn't have to wait for economic development policies that could take ten years to have an impact. And that politicians who vote for the status quo should be voted out. I can sympathize. But, we paid a lot more for a lot less house a lot further out that were solidly zoned for good schools. I do not agree with parents who want to buy in the biggest house they can in the least expensive school zone, and then act like FCPS should rezone them. They should have know where they were buying. If they didn't want Lee or Mount Vernon, they should have paid more, or bought less house elsewhere. Everyone in the DC metro area has to make a cost/ location/ size/ schools housing trade off.

Well, you can't fault people for advocating for their interests. And, you don't really get that much of a discount on a house buying in the Saratoga are over a similar home north of the FFX Count Pkwy in the West Springfield HS - maybe $50k. Not to mention the fact that the school board has brought this on themselves with recent rezoning of the Daventry neighborhood from Lee to West Springfield. Yes, I know that was a split feeder situation, but it doesn't exactly help Lee. If you're in Saratoga, why can't you have the same?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps a school closer to Lake Braddock could be moved to accommodate Saratoga? Or perhaps Saratoga should be moved to South County, which is also in the Mt. Vernon district- so that would make sense for voting representation. I think Saratoga voters are trying to garner attention to the fact that the current system is broken. Saratoga doesn't really belong at Lee because Lee is not their "neighborhood" school, but it's up to FCPS to figure out who does. It's going to have a domino effect, but it needs to occur. A lot of issues were never resolved during the South County HS opening.

Well, that won't happen. The Lake Braddock neighborhoods closer to Lee have a close association with the Burke area.

I don't see any compelling reason to move Saratoga out of Lee, and I would be extremely surprised to see any significant support on the School Board for doing so. Just because you've discovered you're zoned for a school with comparatively poor test scores doesn't mean the system is broken.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Saratoga is great neighborhood, with an excellent commute to the new National Geospatial Agency and Fort Belvoir. The educated people who work in those areas want to live close to work - and they expect good schools for their kids. The county can't continue to think that the schools in this area are populated by transient military folks who only stay a few years, so don't care as much about the schools. The Saratoga area has changed so much. People are staying longer and demanding more.

Couldn't agree more. While I was aware of the school situation when I bought my home in Saratoga several years ago, I was not as aware of all the gerrymandering that the neighborhood has with it's various elected officials. It seems like the area has been neglected by its elected leaders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps a school closer to Lake Braddock could be moved to accommodate Saratoga? Or perhaps Saratoga should be moved to South County, which is also in the Mt. Vernon district- so that would make sense for voting representation. I think Saratoga voters are trying to garner attention to the fact that the current system is broken. Saratoga doesn't really belong at Lee because Lee is not their "neighborhood" school, but it's up to FCPS to figure out who does. It's going to have a domino effect, but it needs to occur. A lot of issues were never resolved during the South County HS opening.

Well, that won't happen. The Lake Braddock neighborhoods closer to Lee have a close association with the Burke area.

I don't see any compelling reason to move Saratoga out of Lee, and I would be extremely surprised to see any significant support on the School Board for doing so. Just because you've discovered you're zoned for a school with comparatively poor test scores doesn't mean the system is broken.

No the PP, but I didn't "suddenly discover" anything. I knew exactly what I was getting when I bought my home in Saratoga several years ago. That doesn't change the fact that kids in the Saratoga neighborhood have to cross the FFX County Pkwy, the Franconia-Springfield Pkwy, and Interstate 95 to attend the MS and HS to which they're zoned when there are multiple MS and HS's closer to them or the fact that they neighborhood is represented by elected officials that do not represent the rest of the Lee HS pyramid (with the exception of State Delegate Vivian Watts, I believe). Personally, I don't think Key and Lee are as bad as a lot of people make them out to be and I wouldn't be afraid to send my kids there in the least, but I wouldn't mind better representation of my neighborhood's interests than I currently have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Saratoga is great neighborhood, with an excellent commute to the new National Geospatial Agency and Fort Belvoir. The educated people who work in those areas want to live close to work - and they expect good schools for their kids. The county can't continue to think that the schools in this area are populated by transient military folks who only stay a few years, so don't care as much about the schools. The Saratoga area has changed so much. People are staying longer and demanding more.

You can expect good schools and work to improve the assigned ones. What you can't do is expect FCPS to redistrict you because you've decided you're too good for those schools. People who wanted the Lake Braddock and West Springfield districts ponied up the additional money and in some cases sacrificed space for higher-rated schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Saratoga is great neighborhood, with an excellent commute to the new National Geospatial Agency and Fort Belvoir. The educated people who work in those areas want to live close to work - and they expect good schools for their kids. The county can't continue to think that the schools in this area are populated by transient military folks who only stay a few years, so don't care as much about the schools. The Saratoga area has changed so much. People are staying longer and demanding more.

You can expect good schools and work to improve the assigned ones. What you can't do is expect FCPS to redistrict you because you've decided you're too good for those schools. People who wanted the Lake Braddock and West Springfield districts ponied up the additional money and in some cases sacrificed space for higher-rated schools.

And you can advocate for your interests without "expecting" anything. That's called democracy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look at West Springfield vs Lee. One school is well-to-do and lily-white while the school down the road is the opposite. West Potomac vs Mt. Vernon is similar, but the difference isn't quite as stark.

West Springfield is not lilly white. You don't know what you are talking about.

It is less than 60% white.

It is solidly middle/upper middle class.

And on a side note, WSHS hispanic students are some of the highest achieving of their ethnic group in the entire county. Look at the SATs for hispanics at WS. They (tye school and the parents) are doing something right