Segregation in DC schools - charter lottery doesn't help much

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Usually at risk kids are placed in schools through social services or guardians ad litum, not parents. And I'm pretty sure they can be and are placed without the lottery, at least in some cases, through the Student Placement Office.

I've heard of spots reserved in DCPS for those types of placements. Is the same true for Charter schools?

DCPS has a lot more funding, resources and services available to support those kinds of placements than the charters do.

But charter schools have innovation - I thought that's what they said matters. Are you saying now that a centralized system is better??

No, that's not at all what is being said. What's being said is that there is inequality in the system.

In-class innovation is all fine and good but it can't replace the wrap-around services and supports that at-risk kids need. DC does provide some funding and services to help support at-risk kids in DCPS schools but they withhold the same funding and supports from charters.

And, until the same funding and support is being provided to charters as there is to DCPS schools, at-risk kids are better off in DCPS schools where they can actually benefit from those extra resources.

And, until those inequalities in the system are addressed, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to be whining about why there aren't more at-risk kids in charters.

I don't totally disagree, but I think that it's also worth recognizing that charters don't have to accept anyone who shows up, at any time in the year. They can kick people out. Public neighborhood schools do not have the same luxury. There is inequality in the system, but I also think it's foolish to try to create equality between two systems that simply do not work the same. DCPS isn't "withholding funding" from charters. They're just not giving DCPS money to non-DCPS schools.

DCPS public schools DO regularly kick kids out, along with doing things like outsourcing special needs rather than dealing with it themselves (i.e. the huge fleet of "short buses" ferrying kids in and out of the city every day). Also, it's not "DCPS money" - charters are also public schools. If you aren't equally distributing funding, facilities, services and resources equally across ALL public schools, whether DCPS or charters, then you are screwing the kids and the taxpayers.

And to add insult to injury what it sounds like now is that DCPS wants to start dumping all of its at risk kids on charters but keep the funding, services and resources for themselves.

+ a million. There's no "DCPS money" -- it's taxpayer money aimed at providing quality public education. And charters in DC are doing are equally good job, if not better, than traditional public schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Usually at risk kids are placed in schools through social services or guardians ad litum, not parents. And I'm pretty sure they can be and are placed without the lottery, at least in some cases, through the Student Placement Office.

Most at risk kids live with their parents, not in foster care. At risk is kids who get SNAP or TANF, are in foster care, are homeless, or are in high school and at least a year older than their grade would indicate. There are over 30,000 of them according to http://atriskfunds.ourdcschools.org/

There are over 11,000 kids on DC TANF. http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ofa/resource/tanf-caseload-data-2015
There are about 2000 homeless children. http://www.mwcog.org/store/item.asp?PUBLICATION_ID=189
There are about 144,000 people in DC who get SNAP and nationwide, about half of SNAP recipients are kids. http://www.dchunger.org/fedfoodprogs/foodstamps/food_stamps.htm, http://www.feedingamerica.org/take-action/advocate/federal-hunger-relief-programs/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program.html

There are only about 1000 kids in out-of-home foster care (and care goes up to age 21 so not all are school-aged) http://cfsa.dc.gov/service/become-foster-or-adoptive-parent

Some of these numbers are a couple years old and there is probably overlap--a kid who is homeless is very likely also getting SNAP and TANF. But most at-risk kids are not at all involved in foster care and if their parents don't enter them in the lottery (or go to a non-lottery charter) and they aren't in a special ed placement (DCPS/charter/private) they are probably going to their in-bound school.

Of those in foster care, some foster parents are really good advocates for their kids and some are not. Some will enter the lottery or try to get them into good schools, and some will keep them where they're at (continuity is important) or where it's convenient. A sizable percentage of DC foster kids are actually placed in Maryland. There are almost no foster parents in-bounds for high-scoring DCPS schools. Some foster kids are in private school placements due to disabilities.

[Anonymous]

Good point. Any kid who is still at-risk in foster care is in a foster home that probably shouldn't be eligible to be a foster home. Foster homes should be able to provide enough stability such that the kid is not at-risk. Placement of foster kids in an unsustainable, unstable environment would be irresponsible.

[Anonymous]

All kids in foster care are considered at risk for DCPS purposes.

But most kids that are considered at risk are not in foster care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Usually at risk kids are placed in schools through social services or guardians ad litum, not parents. And I'm pretty sure they can be and are placed without the lottery, at least in some cases, through the Student Placement Office.

Most at risk kids live with their parents, not in foster care. At risk is kids who get SNAP or TANF, are in foster care, are homeless, or are in high school and at least a year older than their grade would indicate. There are over 30,000 of them according to http://atriskfunds.ourdcschools.org/

There are over 11,000 kids on DC TANF. http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ofa/resource/tanf-caseload-data-2015
There are about 2000 homeless children. http://www.mwcog.org/store/item.asp?PUBLICATION_ID=189
There are about 144,000 people in DC who get SNAP and nationwide, about half of SNAP recipients are kids. http://www.dchunger.org/fedfoodprogs/foodstamps/food_stamps.htm, http://www.feedingamerica.org/take-action/advocate/federal-hunger-relief-programs/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program.html

There are only about 1000 kids in out-of-home foster care (and care goes up to age 21 so not all are school-aged) http://cfsa.dc.gov/service/become-foster-or-adoptive-parent

Some of these numbers are a couple years old and there is probably overlap--a kid who is homeless is very likely also getting SNAP and TANF. But most at-risk kids are not at all involved in foster care and if their parents don't enter them in the lottery (or go to a non-lottery charter) and they aren't in a special ed placement (DCPS/charter/private) they are probably going to their in-bound school.

Of those in foster care, some foster parents are really good advocates for their kids and some are not. Some will enter the lottery or try to get them into good schools, and some will keep them where they're at (continuity is important) or where it's convenient. A sizable percentage of DC foster kids are actually placed in Maryland. There are almost no foster parents in-bounds for high-scoring DCPS schools. Some foster kids are in private school placements due to disabilities.

Interesting to hear some stats on the make up of at-risk.

The word going around in our neighborhood a while back was the it was easy to abuse the system to qualify for SNAP. (Move the money out of your bank accounts for a couple months and claim that you don't have a job; there weren't any checks on whether you owned a half million dollar house outright or several luxury cars).

If beating the SNAP process can be parlayed into school preferences for at-risk kids, it highlights risks in tying the qualifications for some of these programs and having to spread the available resources thinner for the people they are really intended to help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Usually at risk kids are placed in schools through social services or guardians ad litum, not parents. And I'm pretty sure they can be and are placed without the lottery, at least in some cases, through the Student Placement Office.

Most at risk kids live with their parents, not in foster care. At risk is kids who get SNAP or TANF, are in foster care, are homeless, or are in high school and at least a year older than their grade would indicate. There are over 30,000 of them according to http://atriskfunds.ourdcschools.org/

There are over 11,000 kids on DC TANF. http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ofa/resource/tanf-caseload-data-2015
There are about 2000 homeless children. http://www.mwcog.org/store/item.asp?PUBLICATION_ID=189
There are about 144,000 people in DC who get SNAP and nationwide, about half of SNAP recipients are kids. http://www.dchunger.org/fedfoodprogs/foodstamps/food_stamps.htm, http://www.feedingamerica.org/take-action/advocate/federal-hunger-relief-programs/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program.html

There are only about 1000 kids in out-of-home foster care (and care goes up to age 21 so not all are school-aged) http://cfsa.dc.gov/service/become-foster-or-adoptive-parent

Some of these numbers are a couple years old and there is probably overlap--a kid who is homeless is very likely also getting SNAP and TANF. But most at-risk kids are not at all involved in foster care and if their parents don't enter them in the lottery (or go to a non-lottery charter) and they aren't in a special ed placement (DCPS/charter/private) they are probably going to their in-bound school.

Of those in foster care, some foster parents are really good advocates for their kids and some are not. Some will enter the lottery or try to get them into good schools, and some will keep them where they're at (continuity is important) or where it's convenient. A sizable percentage of DC foster kids are actually placed in Maryland. There are almost no foster parents in-bounds for high-scoring DCPS schools. Some foster kids are in private school placements due to disabilities.

Thank you, that is the information I was interested in. This data is an important part of the discussion. Poverty is the story, and under the definition of at risk, nearly half of DC's students qualify. That is outrageous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Usually at risk kids are placed in schools through social services or guardians ad litum, not parents. And I'm pretty sure they can be and are placed without the lottery, at least in some cases, through the Student Placement Office.

Most at risk kids live with their parents, not in foster care. At risk is kids who get SNAP or TANF, are in foster care, are homeless, or are in high school and at least a year older than their grade would indicate. There are over 30,000 of them according to http://atriskfunds.ourdcschools.org/

There are over 11,000 kids on DC TANF. http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ofa/resource/tanf-caseload-data-2015
There are about 2000 homeless children. http://www.mwcog.org/store/item.asp?PUBLICATION_ID=189
There are about 144,000 people in DC who get SNAP and nationwide, about half of SNAP recipients are kids. http://www.dchunger.org/fedfoodprogs/foodstamps/food_stamps.htm, http://www.feedingamerica.org/take-action/advocate/federal-hunger-relief-programs/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program.html

There are only about 1000 kids in out-of-home foster care (and care goes up to age 21 so not all are school-aged) http://cfsa.dc.gov/service/become-foster-or-adoptive-parent

Some of these numbers are a couple years old and there is probably overlap--a kid who is homeless is very likely also getting SNAP and TANF. But most at-risk kids are not at all involved in foster care and if their parents don't enter them in the lottery (or go to a non-lottery charter) and they aren't in a special ed placement (DCPS/charter/private) they are probably going to their in-bound school.

Of those in foster care, some foster parents are really good advocates for their kids and some are not. Some will enter the lottery or try to get them into good schools, and some will keep them where they're at (continuity is important) or where it's convenient. A sizable percentage of DC foster kids are actually placed in Maryland. There are almost no foster parents in-bounds for high-scoring DCPS schools. Some foster kids are in private school placements due to disabilities.

Interesting to hear some stats on the make up of at-risk.

The word going around in our neighborhood a while back was the it was easy to abuse the system to qualify for SNAP. (Move the money out of your bank accounts for a couple months and claim that you don't have a job; there weren't any checks on whether you owned a half million dollar house outright or several luxury cars).

If beating the SNAP process can be parlayed into school preferences for at-risk kids, it highlights risks in tying the qualifications for some of these programs and having to spread the available resources thinner for the people they are really intended to help.

It's not that easy to qualify for SNAP. It's true that some states have lifted the asset cap and that a house you own and a single car are excluded from assets, but you can't just say you don't have a job. You have to get a letter from your previous employer, show unemployment checks or proof you get TANF, etc. You have to give permission for the government to check your bank accounts. You have to sit in the ESA office for hours. They'd ask you if you wanted TANF and Medicaid too and it would be pretty weird if you said no. And if you get caught you could go to prison. It's certainly not the easiest way for a rich person to get a seat in a good school--and it's not even a guaranteed seat, since your kid would be one of 30,000 at-risk kids applying for an at-risk slot.