How much of child's intelligence is from nature vs nurture?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How scientists have tackled this question is with twin studies. From the WSJ:

"More than any other evidence, it was the study of twins that brought about this change. "Born Together—Reared Apart," a new book by Nancy L. Segal about the Minnesota study of Twins Reared Apart (Mistra), narrates the history of the shift. In 1979, Thomas Bouchard of the University of Minnesota came across a newspaper report about a set of Ohio twins, separated at birth, who had been reunited and proved to possess uncannily similar habits. Dr. Bouchard began to collect case histories of twins raised apart and to invite them to Minneapolis for study.

By 1990, he, Dr. Segal and other colleagues were ready to publish their results in Science magazine. By then they had measured the IQ of 48 pairs of monozygotic, or identical, twins, raised apart (MZA) and 40 pairs of such twins raised together (MZT). The MZA twins were 69% similar in IQ, compared with 88% for MZT twins, both far greater resemblances than for any other pairs of individuals, even siblings. Other variables than genetics, such as material possessions in the home, had little influence, nor was the degree of social contact between the twins in each pair associated with their similarity in IQ."

Yes, but. There is a third factor that is rarely considered (and extremely difficult to study)--the environment in utero. Not all of the 69% similarity is genes; some part of it is that they experienced similar gestational circumstances.

Excellent point.
If mom is mostly stressed vs relaxed,
that makes a HUGE difference.

zero evidence of this

+1. Utter rubbish. My sister and I have possibly the most stressed mom in the world. (of course, that we have seen)She is a nightmare, always was, nothing was relaxed ever. Sister is genius and I fall into genius range, but not as high as her. And we are both highly educated. But, according to above pp we should be dumb as dirt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If I were getting an egg donor, I'd want someone with an Ivy League education. But in reality, I know damn well that I value street smarts and creativity over book smarts.

Did Billy Joel even graduate from high school? I know Albert Einstein barely made it through. Didn't Mark Zuckerberg drop out of Harvard?

I'd worry a thousand times more about alcoholism and mental illness running in their families than how much education they had.

This isn't true. Einstein was a good student. He didn't do well in an exam because he wasn't fluent in French, which the test was given in. Also, Zuckerberg dropped out of Harvard so obviously he is smart. I think it is a combination of both. Parents who talk and read to their children do improve their kids' intelligence.

[Anonymous]

almost every family has mental health and substance abuse issues

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:considering donor egg process - but am disappointed with education history of the donors. Very few have even a college education.
What is your take on importance of donor's level of education?

a
Is anyone else find it morally creepy that people are "creating" the perfect baby? It just seems you are trying to get the perfect kid and even if you had genius donors that your expectations are going to be super high for future kid. Why not look at the health of the women rather than the degrees? I suppose people have been choosing eye color/hair color/height but, there is something uneasy about it.

Why not choose a donor that is closer to you? Are you a genius?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I were getting an egg donor, I'd want someone with an Ivy League education. But in reality, I know damn well that I value street smarts and creativity over book smarts.

Did Billy Joel even graduate from high school? I know Albert Einstein barely made it through. Didn't Mark Zuckerberg drop out of Harvard?

I'd worry a thousand times more about alcoholism and mental illness running in their families than how much education they had.

Amusing to see Billy Joel used as a standard-bearer for excellence and high IQ. Along those lines, I wonder if the Kardashians and Ted Nugent even graduated from high school?

And: do you realize how few family trees are entirely free of alcoholism, other substance abuse, and depression?

I'm not really a Billy Joel fan but the man has written many successful songs and musical ability is definitely a sign of intelligence. I extend this to all musicians who write and play music. They are much smarter than you think.

As for the Kardashians. Well, I suppose you could argue that they have capitalized on their name and been incredibly successful in doing so. Someone there is a genius. An evil genius, but still.

[Anonymous]

To a first approximation, intelligence is driven by parent genetics plus random noise, with “nurture” having a vanishingly small impact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I remember personal ads looking for donors in my college newspaper (Ivy).

Hate to pull this on a tangent, but do you think many were answering the ads? Trying to think back to my mindset at that age and seems like I would have been expecting to have as many kids of my own as I wanted and hesitant about having a child I'd never see (or even know came into existence). I'm sure not everyone thinks that way, but maybe that implies there's a bias in general in the donor population as to ways of thinking if one believes those are passed on.

[Anonymous]

Designer babies. Just don't do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To a first approximation, intelligence is driven by parent genetics plus random noise, with “nurture” having a vanishingly small impact.

+1. But you'll get an uproar at the definition of a parent. Genetically, we all know who a parent is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I were getting an egg donor, I'd want someone with an Ivy League education. But in reality, I know damn well that I value street smarts and creativity over book smarts.

Did Billy Joel even graduate from high school? I know Albert Einstein barely made it through. Didn't Mark Zuckerberg drop out of Harvard?

I'd worry a thousand times more about alcoholism and mental illness running in their families than how much education they had.

This isn't true. Einstein was a good student. He didn't do well in an exam because he wasn't fluent in French, which the test was given in. Also, Zuckerberg dropped out of Harvard so obviously he is smart. I think it is a combination of both. Parents who talk and read to their children do improve their kids' intelligence.

Zuckerberg did not drop out because he could not keep up. He dropped out to become a billionaire at a younger age. Plus he can own Harvard if he wants too. He is a genius thanks to his genes. As are all the other famous dropouts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To a first approximation, intelligence is driven by parent genetics plus random noise, with “nurture” having a vanishingly small impact.

shhhhhh
we are supposed to pretend it's about having a lot of books at home and reading to your child. everyone can be a genius if they spend a lot of time at the library!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Designer babies. Just don't do it.

Have you ever endured years of infertility? Or perhaps the experienced trauma of a failed adoption? Or the particular hell I can speak to of years and years of pregnancy losses (in my case, 53 weeks of pregnancy -8 total pregnancies- over five years without ever holding a living baby)?

The pathway to DE is often marked by tragedy and heartache. There is nothing glib about the decision to remove your genetics from the equation of motherhood.