How much of child's intelligence is from nature vs nurture?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How scientists have tackled this question is with twin studies. From the WSJ:

"More than any other evidence, it was the study of twins that brought about this change. "Born Together—Reared Apart," a new book by Nancy L. Segal about the Minnesota study of Twins Reared Apart (Mistra), narrates the history of the shift. In 1979, Thomas Bouchard of the University of Minnesota came across a newspaper report about a set of Ohio twins, separated at birth, who had been reunited and proved to possess uncannily similar habits. Dr. Bouchard began to collect case histories of twins raised apart and to invite them to Minneapolis for study.

By 1990, he, Dr. Segal and other colleagues were ready to publish their results in Science magazine. By then they had measured the IQ of 48 pairs of monozygotic, or identical, twins, raised apart (MZA) and 40 pairs of such twins raised together (MZT). The MZA twins were 69% similar in IQ, compared with 88% for MZT twins, both far greater resemblances than for any other pairs of individuals, even siblings. Other variables than genetics, such as material possessions in the home, had little influence, nor was the degree of social contact between the twins in each pair associated with their similarity in IQ."

Yes, but. There is a third factor that is rarely considered (and extremely difficult to study)--the environment in utero. Not all of the 69% similarity is genes; some part of it is that they experienced similar gestational circumstances.

Excellent point.
If mom is mostly stressed vs relaxed,
that makes a HUGE difference.

zero evidence of this

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How scientists have tackled this question is with twin studies. From the WSJ:

"More than any other evidence, it was the study of twins that brought about this change. "Born Together—Reared Apart," a new book by Nancy L. Segal about the Minnesota study of Twins Reared Apart (Mistra), narrates the history of the shift. In 1979, Thomas Bouchard of the University of Minnesota came across a newspaper report about a set of Ohio twins, separated at birth, who had been reunited and proved to possess uncannily similar habits. Dr. Bouchard began to collect case histories of twins raised apart and to invite them to Minneapolis for study.

By 1990, he, Dr. Segal and other colleagues were ready to publish their results in Science magazine. By then they had measured the IQ of 48 pairs of monozygotic, or identical, twins, raised apart (MZA) and 40 pairs of such twins raised together (MZT). The MZA twins were 69% similar in IQ, compared with 88% for MZT twins, both far greater resemblances than for any other pairs of individuals, even siblings. Other variables than genetics, such as material possessions in the home, had little influence, nor was the degree of social contact between the twins in each pair associated with their similarity in IQ."

Yes, but. There is a third factor that is rarely considered (and extremely difficult to study)--the environment in utero. Not all of the 69% similarity is genes; some part of it is that they experienced similar gestational circumstances.

Excellent point.
If mom is mostly stressed vs relaxed,
that makes a HUGE difference.

zero evidence of this

Ok. Keep being stressed out. Maybe it's helping you.

[Anonymous]

We hit the SG jackpot and had 2 donors with masters. That said, I’m team nurture. Neither of my parents went to college, but did stress the importance of education to us. I’m the youngest in my family, but first to go (and finish) my college degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We hit the SG jackpot and had 2 donors with masters. That said, I’m team nurture. Neither of my parents went to college, but did stress the importance of education to us. I’m the youngest in my family, but first to go (and finish) my college degree.

To add, health history was our #1 criteria...education was just a bonus.

[Anonymous]

We adopted- didn't do donor egg, and adopted knowing that there was a genetic history of intellectual disability, mental health issues, as well as in utero drug exposure issues. Our child has been experiencing learning issues, and we have been going through testing. Notably- despite the genetics, her IQ is quite high.
That's just to say- don't stress to much about the college education (or lack thereof) of your donor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A number of ladies who are egg donors may be smart enough to attend college (including an Ivy) but due to economic circumstance did not have the opportunity. Plus you have the sperm adding to the genetics as well.

I personally think that while intelligence may be more the product of nature than nurture, success is more the product of nature. I will hire someone who works hard and little natural talent over someone with a lot of natural talent who coasts on that talent.

Exactly. How many of our grandparents and great-grandparents didn't go to college for lack of opportunity? That doesn't make them dumb. Of my 4 grandparents, only 1 went to college, and that was only because the GI Bill enabled him to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A number of ladies who are egg donors may be smart enough to attend college (including an Ivy) but due to economic circumstance did not have the opportunity. Plus you have the sperm adding to the genetics as well.

I personally think that while intelligence may be more the product of nature than nurture, success is more the product of nature. I will hire someone who works hard and little natural talent over someone with a lot of natural talent who coasts on that talent.

Exactly. How many of our grandparents and great-grandparents didn't go to college for lack of opportunity? That doesn't make them dumb. Of my 4 grandparents, only 1 went to college, and that was only because the GI Bill enabled him to do so.

college was much less indicative of intelligence 60 years ago than it is today. when 5% of population has s college degree there are plenty of bright peole who don't. when almost 40% do, it's a different situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How scientists have tackled this question is with twin studies. From the WSJ:

"More than any other evidence, it was the study of twins that brought about this change. "Born Together—Reared Apart," a new book by Nancy L. Segal about the Minnesota study of Twins Reared Apart (Mistra), narrates the history of the shift. In 1979, Thomas Bouchard of the University of Minnesota came across a newspaper report about a set of Ohio twins, separated at birth, who had been reunited and proved to possess uncannily similar habits. Dr. Bouchard began to collect case histories of twins raised apart and to invite them to Minneapolis for study.

By 1990, he, Dr. Segal and other colleagues were ready to publish their results in Science magazine. By then they had measured the IQ of 48 pairs of monozygotic, or identical, twins, raised apart (MZA) and 40 pairs of such twins raised together (MZT). The MZA twins were 69% similar in IQ, compared with 88% for MZT twins, both far greater resemblances than for any other pairs of individuals, even siblings. Other variables than genetics, such as material possessions in the home, had little influence, nor was the degree of social contact between the twins in each pair associated with their similarity in IQ."

Yes, but. There is a third factor that is rarely considered (and extremely difficult to study)--the environment in utero. Not all of the 69% similarity is genes; some part of it is that they experienced similar gestational circumstances.

apparently you need to believe in nonsense to keep your stress level under control. not everyone does.
Excellent point.
If mom is mostly stressed vs relaxed,
that makes a HUGE difference.

zero evidence of this

Ok. Keep being stressed out. Maybe it's helping you.

[Anonymous]

In our family and among extended (our siblings and their kids) I've come to the conclusion it's mostly inherited with some nurturing influence - more like the raised in a functional household than "Asian tiger" home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How scientists have tackled this question is with twin studies. From the WSJ:

"More than any other evidence, it was the study of twins that brought about this change. "Born Together—Reared Apart," a new book by Nancy L. Segal about the Minnesota study of Twins Reared Apart (Mistra), narrates the history of the shift. In 1979, Thomas Bouchard of the University of Minnesota came across a newspaper report about a set of Ohio twins, separated at birth, who had been reunited and proved to possess uncannily similar habits. Dr. Bouchard began to collect case histories of twins raised apart and to invite them to Minneapolis for study.

By 1990, he, Dr. Segal and other colleagues were ready to publish their results in Science magazine. By then they had measured the IQ of 48 pairs of monozygotic, or identical, twins, raised apart (MZA) and 40 pairs of such twins raised together (MZT). The MZA twins were 69% similar in IQ, compared with 88% for MZT twins, both far greater resemblances than for any other pairs of individuals, even siblings. Other variables than genetics, such as material possessions in the home, had little influence, nor was the degree of social contact between the twins in each pair associated with their similarity in IQ."

Yes, but. There is a third factor that is rarely considered (and extremely difficult to study)--the environment in utero. Not all of the 69% similarity is genes; some part of it is that they experienced similar gestational circumstances.

This is interesting. I have identical twins who had different experiences in utero due to a rare disease that affected them oppositely. They are only toddlers but one is several months behind the other in development. It is yet to be seen whether intelligence was affected in either baby given the swelling of the brain etc.

[Anonymous]

I also tend to think some of this stuff is heritable, but requires the proper nurture to fulfill those talents. My OE child is an incredible dancer - I was a former professional ballerina. My mom was a trained dancer as well. Did my daughter inherit my abilities and musicality? Probably. I actually tried to steer her away from dance but she insisted and here we are. Would it mean anything if I didn't have the wherewithall to send her to class three days a week and find her the proper training? Not sure.

Our donor did happen to have a college degree, but what attracted us to her was more her musical ability than the fact that she had a good gpa, etc. She came from a family of musicians, and was a skilled violin player. My tribe is generally artistic (dancers and painters), and my husband is a musician as well. It was much more important to me to find a donor with an artistic background, than an Ivy-grad future hedge fund manager. And being in the arts I have known plenty of brilliant people who never achieved what some would characterize as academic success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think more important than intelligence or academic achievement in life is happiness and compassion for others. A smart child isn't necessarily happy. I want my child to be happy and kind, above all. I think genetics and nurture play a role in both of those things, with nurture being extremely important.

+ a million

Recent studies are showing that EQ is just as important as IQ, if not more so, in professional success.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2017/12/20/the-surprising-thing-google-learned-about-its-employees-and-what-it-means-for-todays-students/?utm_term=.bba9d7700134

[Anonymous]

Health history and "intelligence" were my two priorities initially. After more research, I added that the person had to be a proven donor, too. I completely agree with one of the prior posts that the info you get from some places is too little. I'm going with an agency as a result. Despite the higher cost, I feel better about how the donors are vetted and the amount of information I receive. I've just selected a donor and am getting the process going from there. I'm definitely more scared that DE won't work at all than I am about having picked the wrong donor, but I found using the agency relieved some stress over picking a donor.

Judging intelligence based on the info we get (even from an agency) is incredibly difficult and most likely impossible. Test scores are somewhat helpful, but far from a gold standard. I find the extra info I've gotten gives me a better picture of the donor as a person, which has been very helpful. A couple people I thought of using had personality traits I wish I had.

[Anonymous]

Speaking for myself, my parents were not college educated. My mom did not even graduate from HS. I ended up valedictorian of my class, finished college and transplanted here from the midwest. I'm not sure what kind of intelligence I got from my parents, but what I know I did get was a strong work ethic and a strong desire to have a job that was not at all like the hard labor my parents had done their whole lives.

So, if your child (OE or DE) has some will of their own that may or may not be inheritable. I have not looked for any studies on that, this is just based on my own personal experience.

[Anonymous]

High IQ is overrated. Noting but misery in the end. Plus, not connected to college education.