High school math courses for College entrance

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PP, I think the choices are Multivariable Calculus or AP Statistics, depending on the school.

OP here - I guess one of my questions is: if DD ends up not being the keen STEM type, can she stop math with AP Calculus (AB or BC) in 11th grade or will that limit her College admission potential?

Most colleges want to see 4 years of math during high school. You should look at the expectations of a couple of colleges you think your DC might end up being interested in to see. So she'd have to take MV calc or AP stat.

Actually, the majority of schools are looking for 3 years of math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PP, I think the choices are Multivariable Calculus or AP Statistics, depending on the school.

OP here - I guess one of my questions is: if DD ends up not being the keen STEM type, can she stop math with AP Calculus (AB or BC) in 11th grade or will that limit her College admission potential?

Most colleges want to see 4 years of math during high school. You should look at the expectations of a couple of colleges you think your DC might end up being interested in to see. So she'd have to take MV calc or AP stat.

Actually, the majority of schools are looking for 3 years of math.

Unless your child is planning to major in engineering, math or similar the schools aren't going to get bent out of shape about whether or not they took calculus as a Jr, Sr. or if they took it at all. My DS is a rising senior, exploring to major in engineering or math and the math faculty he has spoken with at almost every school said starting freshman year in Calc 1 or Calc II doesn't make a huge difference in the overall program. OP, I know you're trying to do what's best but I think you are really over-thinking this.

[Anonymous]

Colleges typically want you to retake Calculus I, anyway. Every school thinks that their version Calculus is more rigorous and special.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Colleges typically want you to retake Calculus I, anyway. Every school thinks that their version Calculus is more rigorous and special.

That is true, especially if you are a STEM major. Many look down on HS calculus and unless you have a 5 on the AP... don't bother. Non-STEM majors have it a bit easier, IMO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges typically want you to retake Calculus I, anyway. Every school thinks that their version Calculus is more rigorous and special.

That is true, especially if you are a STEM major. Many look down on HS calculus and unless you have a 5 on the AP... don't bother. Non-STEM majors have it a bit easier, IMO.

Not really our son's experience where the strongest STEM students moved right into proof-based calculus (after having completed at least BC AP calc and often multivariable already -- but, of course, these are kids who all get 5's easily). The best reason to try to get as much math in in high school is because often the high school teachers are better teachers than the profs at universities -- the kids can learn it better. I Have heard, however, that in general many of the students elect to repeat math courses they have had in high school This is not b/c schools require it, but so the students feel more confident doing well. The problem this has created at some schools is that the curve in math classes can be very tough for a kid learning a class for the first time b/c so many kids are repeating it -- just focussing on picking up the nuances b/c they already have the basics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges typically want you to retake Calculus I, anyway. Every school thinks that their version Calculus is more rigorous and special.

That is true, especially if you are a STEM major. Many look down on HS calculus and unless you have a 5 on the AP... don't bother. Non-STEM majors have it a bit easier, IMO.

Not really our son's experience where the strongest STEM students moved right into proof-based calculus (after having completed at least BC AP calc and often multivariable already -- but, of course, these are kids who all get 5's easily). The best reason to try to get as much math in in high school is because often the high school teachers are better teachers than the profs at universities -- the kids can learn it better. I Have heard, however, that in general many of the students elect to repeat math courses they have had in high school This is not b/c schools require it, but so the students feel more confident doing well. The problem this has created at some schools is that the curve in math classes can be very tough for a kid learning a class for the first time b/c so many kids are repeating it -- just focussing on picking up the nuances b/c they already have the basics.

At one Open House at a school with a highly ranked Engineering program they said, I don't care what you get on your AP exam.. you will repeat Calculus. I doubt the business school or the eduction school are saying this but Math/Engineering/CS are saying this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Colleges typically want you to retake Calculus I, anyway. Every school thinks that their version Calculus is more rigorous and special.

That was true 30 years ago, now most colleges with accept the first year of calculus as that h as become a HS course for so many math/science students. My DC is getting credit for it at his top ten engineering school. Some will not count it toward your GPA if you take a class in college that you already took in HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges typically want you to retake Calculus I, anyway. Every school thinks that their version Calculus is more rigorous and special.

That was true 30 years ago, now most colleges with accept the first year of calculus as that h as become a HS course for so many math/science students. My DC is getting credit for it at his top ten engineering school. Some will not count it toward your GPA if you take a class in college that you already took in HS.

Often its not that they 'accept' it, they will not give you college credit but it may mean that your child will score well enough on the placement exam to move into the next level. It really depends on the school so its hard to make a blanket statement based on everyone's experience with one or two schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges typically want you to retake Calculus I, anyway. Every school thinks that their version Calculus is more rigorous and special.

That was true 30 years ago, now most colleges with accept the first year of calculus as that h as become a HS course for so many math/science students. My DC is getting credit for it at his top ten engineering school. Some will not count it toward your GPA if you take a class in college that you already took in HS.

Often its not that they 'accept' it, they will not give you college credit but it may mean that your child will score well enough on the placement exam to move into the next level. It really depends on the school so its hard to make a blanket statement based on everyone's experience with one or two schools.

Exactly +1

[Anonymous]

The further issue is grad school or med school. Many programs have prerequisites, and AP/IB courses or placement tests do not satisfy these prerequisites. They want to see that you actually took the course at a 4 year college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Or Discrete Math. Sadly, the top universities want to see calculus finished and with an A too, before appication whic means by end of jr. year. DC did that and is now taking college chemistry so to hit the chemistry subject matter test hard in the fall. It's a brutal college app. world out there.

It's only brutal if that's the path you take. There are plenty of good universities, or colleges and majors within certain universities, which are perfectly fine with completion of pre-calculus before college. Unless your DC is applying for engineering at a Top 10-15 school, they can probably do just fine if they take Algebra I in 8th grade. My DD took Algebra I in 8th grade, didn't take honors math at all, has never gotten an A in a math course, and is not taking calculus in high school (although she will take AP Stats as a senior). As tragic as this is, I fully expect her to be able to attend a decent school.

He is. Va Tech said they want to see calculus finished by end of jr. year. Yale and Princeton want four subject matter tests, one of which has to be math. I'm not justifying the system - I think it's broken - but this is what the schools want to see. And four years of language. And preferably a second language, and on and on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges typically want you to retake Calculus I, anyway. Every school thinks that their version Calculus is more rigorous and special.

That is true, especially if you are a STEM major. Many look down on HS calculus and unless you have a 5 on the AP... don't bother. Non-STEM majors have it a bit easier, IMO.

Not really our son's experience where the strongest STEM students moved right into proof-based calculus (after having completed at least BC AP calc and often multivariable already -- but, of course, these are kids who all get 5's easily). The best reason to try to get as much math in in high school is because often the high school teachers are better teachers than the profs at universities -- the kids can learn it better. I Have heard, however, that in general many of the students elect to repeat math courses they have had in high school This is not b/c schools require it, but so the students feel more confident doing well. The problem this has created at some schools is that the curve in math classes can be very tough for a kid learning a class for the first time b/c so many kids are repeating it -- just focussing on picking up the nuances b/c they already have the basics.

It's no so much "elect" as they have to pretest to be placed once they have been accepted at the college. The colleges and universities have no idea what Honors or AP statistics at school X meant so most require testing in. One of our children who had gone as high as computer math and pre-calk couldn't manage to get through the math test at GMU so had to repeat pre-calk and now moves on in the fall to do calculus. The other child is a rising H.S. senior and is taking summer math courses at GMU and NOVA. Both required admttance tests ("easy" he said) to sign up for the math courses and chemistry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges typically want you to retake Calculus I, anyway. Every school thinks that their version Calculus is more rigorous and special.

That was true 30 years ago, now most colleges with accept the first year of calculus as that h as become a HS course for so many math/science students. My DC is getting credit for it at his top ten engineering school. Some will not count it toward your GPA if you take a class in college that you already took in HS.

But he probably took the subject matter tests, scored well on the SAT/ACT math and/or had to take a qualifying test (usually online) in order to place at university, right? AT least that's what I see going on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Or Discrete Math. Sadly, the top universities want to see calculus finished and with an A too, before appication whic means by end of jr. year. DC did that and is now taking college chemistry so to hit the chemistry subject matter test hard in the fall. It's a brutal college app. world out there.

It's only brutal if that's the path you take. There are plenty of good universities, or colleges and majors within certain universities, which are perfectly fine with completion of pre-calculus before college. Unless your DC is applying for engineering at a Top 10-15 school, they can probably do just fine if they take Algebra I in 8th grade. My DD took Algebra I in 8th grade, didn't take honors math at all, has never gotten an A in a math course, and is not taking calculus in high school (although she will take AP Stats as a senior). As tragic as this is, I fully expect her to be able to attend a decent school.

He is. Va Tech said they want to see calculus finished by end of jr. year. Yale and Princeton want four subject matter tests, one of which has to be math. I'm not justifying the system - I think it's broken - but this is what the schools want to see. And four years of language. And preferably a second language, and on and on.

VA Tech will accept BC Calc senior year. DC was accepted this year to Va Tech Engineering and he took BC Calc senior year.

[Anonymous]

If calculus is a requirement for your major, many colleges require it to be taken there.