Confederate Battle Flag

[Anonymous]

I am the PP. So, if you are defending SC's "states rights" to fly its flag just defend what the flag really stands for. Don't pretend that it stands for something that it does not. The designers of the flag had a specific intent for the Confederacy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The flag is still flying mainly because symbolism is much more important to the people who want to fly the flag than to everyone else. The leaders of the groups that would oppose the Confederate flag are focused on real issues and policies that affect the people they represent, so they do not want to waste their financial and political capital on a fight that would generate a lot of passion, but not much else.

There also is a strange phenomenon among white Southerners where the great majority never think about the Confederate flag or other symbols of the old South until someone tries to ban them, and then they defend the flag/symbols for a brief period until the issue is pulled from the agenda.

This is so, so true. I can only hope that now that the flag has been associated with this horrible murderer in Charleston, that more SC whites will wake up to this fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is weird that it is flown anywhere outside of private residences. It was the flag of a rebellious treason in the USA. It represents an oppressive regime that sold and purchased black bodies.

What is "rebellious treason" to you can be considered "a quest for independence" by others.

A flag is nothing but a symbol, and of course different people can perceive the same flag in different ways. The Confederate Battle Flag is no exception.

Oh FFS, you lost. Get over it already.

You fool, my ancestors were not even in this country then. And, given the standards of living of AAs in the US today, and their constante whining, I am a bit confused about who really won.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is weird that it is flown anywhere outside of private residences. It was the flag of a rebellious treason in the USA. It represents an oppressive regime that sold and purchased black bodies.

What is "rebellious treason" to you can be considered "a quest for independence" by others.

A flag is nothing but a symbol, and of course different people can perceive the same flag in different ways. The Confederate Battle Flag is no exception.

Oh FFS, you lost. Get over it already.

You fool, my ancestors were not even in this country then. And, given the standards of living of AAs in the US today, and their constante whining, I am a bit confused about who really won.

In case you didn't know, Freedom beats slavery, even with room and board.

And I am confused about who is the real whiner.

[Anonymous]

I'm an immigrant and this whole rewriting of history by the winners is amazing to me. The southern states waned to be independent, just like US wanted to be independent from Britain just a hundred years prior. Americans won, so they are heroes. Southerners lost, so they are traitors, right?

And don't kid yourself - the North did not go to war to free the slaves. Lincoln did not give a flying f&#k about them. In fact, in his inaguration speech he assured the South that they would get to keep their slaves. Lincoln cared about power, and a divided America would not be as powerful, so Lincoln proceeded to burn the South to the ground to get what he wanted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm an immigrant and this whole rewriting of history by the winners is amazing to me. The southern states waned to be independent, just like US wanted to be independent from Britain just a hundred years prior. Americans won, so they are heroes. Southerners lost, so they are traitors, right?

And don't kid yourself - the North did not go to war to free the slaves. Lincoln did not give a flying f&#k about them. In fact, in his inaguration speech he assured the South that they would get to keep their slaves. Lincoln cared about power, and a divided America would not be as powerful, so Lincoln proceeded to burn the South to the ground to get what he wanted.

No, the North did not go to war to free the slaves. But the South absolutely went to war to protect their right to human bondage and chattel slavery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm an immigrant and this whole rewriting of history by the winners is amazing to me. The southern states waned to be independent, just like US wanted to be independent from Britain just a hundred years prior. Americans won, so they are heroes. Southerners lost, so they are traitors, right?

And don't kid yourself - the North did not go to war to free the slaves. Lincoln did not give a flying f&#k about them. In fact, in his inaguration speech he assured the South that they would get to keep their slaves. Lincoln cared about power, and a divided America would not be as powerful, so Lincoln proceeded to burn the South to the ground to get what he wanted.

Who's rewriting history? The War of Northern Aggression wasn't about states' rights or economics, it was about slavery. The right to hold slaves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm an immigrant and this whole rewriting of history by the winners is amazing to me. The southern states waned to be independent, just like US wanted to be independent from Britain just a hundred years prior. Americans won, so they are heroes. Southerners lost, so they are traitors, right?

And don't kid yourself - the North did not go to war to free the slaves. Lincoln did not give a flying f&#k about them. In fact, in his inaguration speech he assured the South that they would get to keep their slaves. Lincoln cared about power, and a divided America would not be as powerful, so Lincoln proceeded to burn the South to the ground to get what he wanted.

You are right for the most part.

And, Lincoln, same as Grant, thought that the best way to deal with the freed slaves was to send them far far away (Africa and Santo Domingo, respectively)

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:I'm an immigrant and this whole rewriting of history by the winners is amazing to me. The southern states waned to be independent, just like US wanted to be independent from Britain just a hundred years prior. Americans won, so they are heroes. Southerners lost, so they are traitors, right?

And don't kid yourself - the North did not go to war to free the slaves. Lincoln did not give a flying f&#k about them. In fact, in his inaguration speech he assured the South that they would get to keep their slaves. Lincoln cared about power, and a divided America would not be as powerful, so Lincoln proceeded to burn the South to the ground to get what he wanted.

The North may not have gone to war to free the slaves, but it definitely did not go to war to maintain slavery -- that is what the South did. There is no moral equivalence between the two.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an immigrant and this whole rewriting of history by the winners is amazing to me. The southern states waned to be independent, just like US wanted to be independent from Britain just a hundred years prior. Americans won, so they are heroes. Southerners lost, so they are traitors, right?

And don't kid yourself - the North did not go to war to free the slaves. Lincoln did not give a flying f&#k about them. In fact, in his inaguration speech he assured the South that they would get to keep their slaves. Lincoln cared about power, and a divided America would not be as powerful, so Lincoln proceeded to burn the South to the ground to get what he wanted.

The North may not have gone to war to free the slaves, but it definitely did not go to war to maintain slavery -- that is what the South did. There is no moral equivalence between the two.

Slaves would have been freed several decades earlier had the US remained part of the British empire, so you could use the same logic to question the US war of independence and constitution, and to express disgust at anyone displaying the star and stripes flag.

History is complex. Selective, faux outrage doesn't help much other than to drive website traffic.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an immigrant and this whole rewriting of history by the winners is amazing to me. The southern states waned to be independent, just like US wanted to be independent from Britain just a hundred years prior. Americans won, so they are heroes. Southerners lost, so they are traitors, right?

And don't kid yourself - the North did not go to war to free the slaves. Lincoln did not give a flying f&#k about them. In fact, in his inaguration speech he assured the South that they would get to keep their slaves. Lincoln cared about power, and a divided America would not be as powerful, so Lincoln proceeded to burn the South to the ground to get what he wanted.

The North may not have gone to war to free the slaves, but it definitely did not go to war to maintain slavery -- that is what the South did. There is no moral equivalence between the two.

Slaves would have been freed several decades earlier had the US remained part of the British empire, so you could use the same logic to question the US war of independence and constitution, and to express disgust at anyone displaying the star and stripes flag.

History is complex. Selective, faux outrage doesn't help much other than to drive website traffic.

History is complex, even more than you appear to realize. Slavery was not abolished in the British Empire until 1833. By then, most of the northern states had already abolished it. So, while you may be correct with regard to southern slaves, slaves in northern areas would have remained in slavery for longer than they did.

There are many aspects of American history -- and even today's America -- that are regrettable. I don't deny or even celebrate them. Regardless of his intentions, Abraham Lincoln did eventually free the slaves. To suggest that there is any moral equivalence between him and the Confederate leaders is reprehensible.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an immigrant and this whole rewriting of history by the winners is amazing to me. The southern states waned to be independent, just like US wanted to be independent from Britain just a hundred years prior. Americans won, so they are heroes. Southerners lost, so they are traitors, right?

And don't kid yourself - the North did not go to war to free the slaves. Lincoln did not give a flying f&#k about them. In fact, in his inaguration speech he assured the South that they would get to keep their slaves. Lincoln cared about power, and a divided America would not be as powerful, so Lincoln proceeded to burn the South to the ground to get what he wanted.

The North may not have gone to war to free the slaves, but it definitely did not go to war to maintain slavery -- that is what the South did. There is no moral equivalence between the two.

The historical record shows that the South didn't want to just maintain slavery, it wanted to EXPAND slavery into the westward territories. That is one of the major points that brought things to blows in Congress during the run-up to the Civil War.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm an immigrant and this whole rewriting of history by the winners is amazing to me. The southern states waned to be independent, just like US wanted to be independent from Britain just a hundred years prior. Americans won, so they are heroes. Southerners lost, so they are traitors, right?

The southern states wanted to be independent... so they could continue to be slave owners. How is that not obvious to you?

[Anonymous]

This article says that the North did indeed go to war to abolish slavery.

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2012/08/the-war-of-northern-aggression/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is weird that it is flown anywhere outside of private residences. It was the flag of a rebellious treason in the USA. It represents an oppressive regime that sold and purchased black bodies.

What is "rebellious treason" to you can be considered "a quest for independence" by others.

A flag is nothing but a symbol, and of course different people can perceive the same flag in different ways. The Confederate Battle Flag is no exception.

Oh FFS, you lost. Get over it already.

You fool, my ancestors were not even in this country then. And, given the standards of living of AAs in the US today, and their constante whining, I am a bit confused about who really won.

I'm confused about why a (relatively recent) immigrant would give enough of a damn about this flag to defend it.