Barcroft elementary/ south Arlington crisis

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't win, it seems. So you want to raise your kids in a down to earth not über wealthy neighborhood in what is overall considered an excellent school district, but if you choose not to buy into the north or can't afford to, you're stuck having disproportionately poor school population because the political clout is in the north. Also, although you're one of the people who intentionally moved into a neighborhood with diversity, everyone points the finger at you as being a racist when you point out that it's not ideal to have a school population comprised almost entirely of FARMs-eligible /English learners. It's a great way to shut you up , because no one likes to be called a racist. Even though numerous studies support your observation. I've been there and while I think it's ridiculously unfair and you're almost certainly correct that you're getting screwed over by NIMBYs who decided to shift the burdens of affordable housing to your hood, it's also entirely predictable and consistent with the way things have always worked. We eventually did some soul searching and realized for us, the best choice was to move to the North. It's not that bad up here and I spend zero time worrying about schools, which has completely changed my life.

The solution is actually pretty simple - all housing becomes market rate. I don't support affordable housing at all even though realistically. I as a middle class person, benefit from affordable housing. No, I don't actually qualify but I live in an apartment close by to low income housing. Developers are not keen to put in money to this area so my older apartment is market rate but at a cheaper market rate.

The policies simply continue to hurt the people they are supposed to help. There is no possible way a family of 4 with an income of $40K is ever going to get ahead by living in Arlington. Never. It's a shame really. Sometimes, I think the liberals in the area just like to keep the low income families around to make themselves feel better. It's certainly not because they are concerned about these actual families and their ability to get out of poverty and move up.

Actually,market rate is worse than committed affordable, from a schools perspective. The families in the low-cost market rate apartments are always moving around and the low-rent buildings attract a lot of...low-rent people. Lots of single people crowding into an apartment, etc. The families in committed affordable stay there for much longer periods, so less turnover in the classroom, and the housing situation is generally more safe and stable.

That may very well be true, but if you read the county report on affordable housing you will see that the market rate housing is a very important factor, as far as percentage available. It's on record stating that the county will do what it can to maintain all exisiting market rate affordable housing.

Agree that as a community we need both. But if we are worried about the effects that concentrations of poverty have on the schools, you do need to consider whether they are talking about supporting the development of committed affordable housing or the retention of market rate affordable housing, because those have differential impacts on the schools (in the aggregate).

[Anonymous]

Recent studies confirm that the poor do better when they are less concentrated. That means that Arlington, one of the wealthiest jurisdictions in the area, and getting wealthier, should retain a substantial number of low income units. As market rate low income units diminish in number, it will need more guaranteed affordable units to reach that goal.

It would of course be better if more units were in North Arlington, though that would be costlier. Alternatively mixing students from across the County could be done more aggressively. I am sure affordable housing advocates will not oppose either of those efforts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't win, it seems. So you want to raise your kids in a down to earth not über wealthy neighborhood in what is overall considered an excellent school district, but if you choose not to buy into the north or can't afford to, you're stuck having disproportionately poor school population because the political clout is in the north. Also, although you're one of the people who intentionally moved into a neighborhood with diversity, everyone points the finger at you as being a racist when you point out that it's not ideal to have a school population comprised almost entirely of FARMs-eligible /English learners. It's a great way to shut you up , because no one likes to be called a racist. Even though numerous studies support your observation. I've been there and while I think it's ridiculously unfair and you're almost certainly correct that you're getting screwed over by NIMBYs who decided to shift the burdens of affordable housing to your hood, it's also entirely predictable and consistent with the way things have always worked. We eventually did some soul searching and realized for us, the best choice was to move to the North. It's not that bad up here and I spend zero time worrying about schools, which has completely changed my life.

The solution is actually pretty simple - all housing becomes market rate. I don't support affordable housing at all even though realistically. I as a middle class person, benefit from affordable housing. No, I don't actually qualify but I live in an apartment close by to low income housing. Developers are not keen to put in money to this area so my older apartment is market rate but at a cheaper market rate.

The policies simply continue to hurt the people they are supposed to help. There is no possible way a family of 4 with an income of $40K is ever going to get ahead by living in Arlington. Never. It's a shame really. Sometimes, I think the liberals in the area just like to keep the low income families around to make themselves feel better. It's certainly not because they are concerned about these actual families and their ability to get out of poverty and move up.

Actually,market rate is worse than committed affordable, from a schools perspective. The families in the low-cost market rate apartments are always moving around and the low-rent buildings attract a lot of...low-rent people. Lots of single people crowding into an apartment, etc. The families in committed affordable stay there for much longer periods, so less turnover in the classroom, and the housing situation is generally more safe and stable.

But those low rent people are not as likely to have young children who will attend schools.

And the problem with staying for long periods - do you realize you are suggesting that generational poverty is a good thing? And it's not.

[Anonymous]

What is the history of busing in arlington?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can you show me comps where prices are lower than several years ago? We're in Barcroft zone but have no kids so this school crisis is news to us.

I would suggest you look at a real estate site and see what things have sold for in the last year or so. I've only heard antecdotal accounts of people being advised to not list their homes ( by realtors) at this time due to the school crisis. If you are planning to stay for the long haul, I would think you will be ok. However, if kids are in your future I would start looking into the school situation and get involved. The board has very specific goals they want to meet for affordable housing. They are good goals, and need to be a priority in our county. Unfortunately they do not seem to be taking a well thought out approach. If we don't hold them accountable they will move forward with the solutions that are easiest for them, and tell our smaller neighborhoods to just , " come to grips with it"
If you would like to learn more please try to make one of the meetings.

blah blah blah. i don't listen to realtors. you shouldn't either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't win, it seems. So you want to raise your kids in a down to earth not über wealthy neighborhood in what is overall considered an excellent school district, but if you choose not to buy into the north or can't afford to, you're stuck having disproportionately poor school population because the political clout is in the north. Also, although you're one of the people who intentionally moved into a neighborhood with diversity, everyone points the finger at you as being a racist when you point out that it's not ideal to have a school population comprised almost entirely of FARMs-eligible /English learners. It's a great way to shut you up , because no one likes to be called a racist. Even though numerous studies support your observation. I've been there and while I think it's ridiculously unfair and you're almost certainly correct that you're getting screwed over by NIMBYs who decided to shift the burdens of affordable housing to your hood, it's also entirely predictable and consistent with the way things have always worked. We eventually did some soul searching and realized for us, the best choice was to move to the North. It's not that bad up here and I spend zero time worrying about schools, which has completely changed my life.

The solution is actually pretty simple - all housing becomes market rate. I don't support affordable housing at all even though realistically. I as a middle class person, benefit from affordable housing. No, I don't actually qualify but I live in an apartment close by to low income housing. Developers are not keen to put in money to this area so my older apartment is market rate but at a cheaper market rate.

The policies simply continue to hurt the people they are supposed to help. There is no possible way a family of 4 with an income of $40K is ever going to get ahead by living in Arlington. Never. It's a shame really. Sometimes, I think the liberals in the area just like to keep the low income families around to make themselves feel better. It's certainly not because they are concerned about these actual families and their ability to get out of poverty and move up.

Actually,market rate is worse than committed affordable, from a schools perspective. The families in the low-cost market rate apartments are always moving around and the low-rent buildings attract a lot of...low-rent people. Lots of single people crowding into an apartment, etc. The families in committed affordable stay there for much longer periods, so less turnover in the classroom, and the housing situation is generally more safe and stable.

But those low rent people are not as likely to have young children who will attend schools.

And the problem with staying for long periods - do you realize you are suggesting that generational poverty is a good thing? And it's not.

?? What are you talking about, with generational poverty? Do you know why generational poverty exists? Because of unstable family situations that prevent kids from completing their educations. I'm talking about staying for a period of a couple of years in one housing situation, which is absolutely good for children (to be in the same school over time and to form lasting relationships with teachers). This is not a new idea--Habitat for Humanity, for example, is all about getting people into a stable housing situation, in that case through homeownership. Of course the goal is that eventually people can earn enough to afford housing without supports, but that can take a long time. In the meantime, we don't want to screw over the next generation.

There are schools in Arlington where half the kids who are there in September are gone by June, and half the class is new. That absolutely has an impact on learning, for all of the kids. Getting more kids in stable housing--which is more likely when it is a committed affordable housing unit that offers other supports for families--is better than market rate. Most of the homeless kids in Arlington, of which there are a few hundred, were previously in market rate rental housing that their parents are no longer able to afford.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was posted on another thread, but I thought there might be people interested here as well.


The Affordable housing being crammed onto the western end of the Pike is of huge concern to all of the nearby neighborhoods.
If you live in Alcova heights, Douglas Park, Columbia Forrest, Nauck, Barcroft, Clarmemont etc... You need to make your voices heard.
There is a community meeting of the Concerned Citizens Group meeting on May 27, 7:30pm at Arlington Mill Community Center.
There is another meeting at Rappanhanock Coffee on June 1 at 10am.
Time is running out for us to voice our opinions and concerns. There are decisions being made that will impact our schools, property values and quality of life for decades to come. I urge people to make the time to be there.


Barcroft is really struggling, and if your child isn't zoned for that school it will likely be your problem soon. The proposed policies of the Arlington county board will cause these issues across all of south Arligton. This is not about being against affordable housing, this is about how we are accomplishing our goals as a county. The affordable housing lobby is very organized, very loud, and not concerned with the welfare of middle class arlingtonians and their children's education. We have to start advocating for ourselves. If not that board will take our silence as consent. Please try and make one of the two meetings.

North Arlington resident here who fled Alexandria. I tell you people that diversity is overrated, and you don't listen. No, you attack. And then, when you discover that diversity isn't the Benetton ad of your fantasies, you freak out. Sheesh.

Nothing like having a couple of kids who might have to go to school with the browns and the poors to bring out your inner racist, eh?

Woah, you appear to be replying to yourself. Did you mean to call yourself a racist?

No, it was a mistake. An added thought. I hit reply to the wrong answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Recent studies confirm that the poor do better when they are less concentrated. That means that Arlington, one of the wealthiest jurisdictions in the area, and getting wealthier, should retain a substantial number of low income units. As market rate low income units diminish in number, it will need more guaranteed affordable units to reach that goal.

It would of course be better if more units were in North Arlington, though that would be costlier. Alternatively mixing students from across the County could be done more aggressively. I am sure affordable housing advocates will not oppose either of those efforts.

Op here- I agree with the above. I think the bigger issue here is timing. The county has set specific goals over certain time frames. Yes, north Arlington will be difficult and costly, but that needs to happen. We can do this stuff and do it right, but maybe not in 10 years. I understand that the afforadable housing lobby sees that as unacceptable because people need help now, but if we are going to it well we need more resources and time. Upward mobility happens when poverty isn't concentrated and schools aren't overwhelmed. If it's worth doing it's worth doing right.
To me anything less is just putting a bandaid on it.
The market rate issue is difficult. Aren't most of these complexes ( like Barcroft) privately owned? That's the point right? The county is claiming them as part of " their solution", but aren't in anyway responsible for them. I don't know if they incentivize management to keep them from renovating or selling. If anyone has some insight on that I'd love to hear about it.
As far as them not having children - that is incorrect. At least in my neighborhood - the majority of our school comes form this kind of development. Luckily we seem to be handling it well, and from the test scores you can see big gains over a two year period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't win, it seems. So you want to raise your kids in a down to earth not über wealthy neighborhood in what is overall considered an excellent school district, but if you choose not to buy into the north or can't afford to, you're stuck having disproportionately poor school population because the political clout is in the north. Also, although you're one of the people who intentionally moved into a neighborhood with diversity, everyone points the finger at you as being a racist when you point out that it's not ideal to have a school population comprised almost entirely of FARMs-eligible /English learners. It's a great way to shut you up , because no one likes to be called a racist. Even though numerous studies support your observation. I've been there and while I think it's ridiculously unfair and you're almost certainly correct that you're getting screwed over by NIMBYs who decided to shift the burdens of affordable housing to your hood, it's also entirely predictable and consistent with the way things have always worked. We eventually did some soul searching and realized for us, the best choice was to move to the North. It's not that bad up here and I spend zero time worrying about schools, which has completely changed my life.

The solution is actually pretty simple - all housing becomes market rate. I don't support affordable housing at all even though realistically. I as a middle class person, benefit from affordable housing. No, I don't actually qualify but I live in an apartment close by to low income housing. Developers are not keen to put in money to this area so my older apartment is market rate but at a cheaper market rate.

The policies simply continue to hurt the people they are supposed to help. There is no possible way a family of 4 with an income of $40K is ever going to get ahead by living in Arlington. Never. It's a shame really. Sometimes, I think the liberals in the area just like to keep the low income families around to make themselves feel better. It's certainly not because they are concerned about these actual families and their ability to get out of poverty and move up.

Actually,market rate is worse than committed affordable, from a schools perspective. The families in the low-cost market rate apartments are always moving around and the low-rent buildings attract a lot of...low-rent people. Lots of single people crowding into an apartment, etc. The families in committed affordable stay there for much longer periods, so less turnover in the classroom, and the housing situation is generally more safe and stable.

But those low rent people are not as likely to have young children who will attend schools.

And the problem with staying for long periods - do you realize you are suggesting that generational poverty is a good thing? And it's not.

Really???? There are better ways to say this...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't win, it seems. So you want to raise your kids in a down to earth not über wealthy neighborhood in what is overall considered an excellent school district, but if you choose not to buy into the north or can't afford to, you're stuck having disproportionately poor school population because the political clout is in the north. Also, although you're one of the people who intentionally moved into a neighborhood with diversity, everyone points the finger at you as being a racist when you point out that it's not ideal to have a school population comprised almost entirely of FARMs-eligible /English learners. It's a great way to shut you up , because no one likes to be called a racist. Even though numerous studies support your observation. I've been there and while I think it's ridiculously unfair and you're almost certainly correct that you're getting screwed over by NIMBYs who decided to shift the burdens of affordable housing to your hood, it's also entirely predictable and consistent with the way things have always worked. We eventually did some soul searching and realized for us, the best choice was to move to the North. It's not that bad up here and I spend zero time worrying about schools, which has completely changed my life.

The solution is actually pretty simple - all housing becomes market rate. I don't support affordable housing at all even though realistically. I as a middle class person, benefit from affordable housing. No, I don't actually qualify but I live in an apartment close by to low income housing. Developers are not keen to put in money to this area so my older apartment is market rate but at a cheaper market rate.

The policies simply continue to hurt the people they are supposed to help. There is no possible way a family of 4 with an income of $40K is ever going to get ahead by living in Arlington. Never. It's a shame really. Sometimes, I think the liberals in the area just like to keep the low income families around to make themselves feel better. It's certainly not because they are concerned about these actual families and their ability to get out of poverty and move up.

Actually,market rate is worse than committed affordable, from a schools perspective. The families in the low-cost market rate apartments are always moving around and the low-rent buildings attract a lot of...low-rent people. Lots of single people crowding into an apartment, etc. The families in committed affordable stay there for much longer periods, so less turnover in the classroom, and the housing situation is generally more safe and stable.

But those low rent people are not as likely to have young children who will attend schools.

And the problem with staying for long periods - do you realize you are suggesting that generational poverty is a good thing? And it's not.

?? What are you talking about, with generational poverty? Do you know why generational poverty exists? Because of unstable family situations that prevent kids from completing their educations. I'm talking about staying for a period of a couple of years in one housing situation, which is absolutely good for children (to be in the same school over time and to form lasting relationships with teachers). This is not a new idea--Habitat for Humanity, for example, is all about getting people into a stable housing situation, in that case through homeownership. Of course the goal is that eventually people can earn enough to afford housing without supports, but that can take a long time. In the meantime, we don't want to screw over the next generation.

There are schools in Arlington where half the kids who are there in September are gone by June, and half the class is new. That absolutely has an impact on learning, for all of the kids. Getting more kids in stable housing--which is more likely when it is a committed affordable housing unit that offers other supports for families--is better than market rate. Most of the homeless kids in Arlington, of which there are a few hundred, were previously in market rate rental housing that their parents are no longer able to afford.

Having lived in the area long term I can tell you that yes, there is absolutely generational poverty. It doesn't take that long - one single mom at 16 has 3 kids, then each of those kids has kids as teens and continue to either live with the mom or move into another unit that is has a similar set up and those kids have kids as teens.

There is really no good argument for low income and affordable housing close in. It solves nothing for anyone - not the well off residents who continue to get more well off over the years or the poor residents who continue to get poorer over the years.

[Anonymous]

I'm so embarrassed for all the pearl clutching women in this thread who want the poors away from their precious children.

Where do you think your nanny lives? What about the barista who makes your soy milk latte? The people who wash your car?

Perspective, you all need it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm so embarrassed for all the pearl clutching women in this thread who want the poors away from their precious children.

Where do you think your nanny lives? What about the barista who makes your soy milk latte? The people who wash your car?

Perspective, you all need it.

Check your privilege lady! The people living in these neighborhoods typically don't have nannies, and do their own yard work. These are people who are fine with higher farm rates, and their children being in the minority. They are not ok with failing infrastructure, and lack of planning that put the squeeze on their families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is the history of busing in arlington?

NP. As far as I know, elementary bussing was never historically done in Arlington. I grew up there and never heard of it, unless it's a relatively new phenomenon. The exception may be for kids with special needs where a neighborhood school cannot accommodate the student for whatever reason. I can only speak from personal experience, but I attended Williamsburg and Yorktown in the early-mid 90s. They bussed kids from what was then called Green Valley in South Arlington to those schools starting probably in 1990 or so and continuing at least until I graduated and I'm guessing at least a few years thereafter. I remember A LOT of parents in North Arlington being unhappy about it at the time, saying it was a waste of money and a pain to coordinate with bus schedules and traffic. Honestly, some of the kids who were bussed in adjusted beautifully, despite the SES differences and whatnot, but there were others who definitely had a lot of trouble. If I had to guess, those kids were already having problems at their base schools and WMS and YHS were just stopgaps before spaces opened up for them at Langston Hughes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is some sour grapes with the residents buying the higher priced homes in south arlington once their kids start schools. It's all gum drops and jujubes until they are in the south arlington public schools. Just search redfin south arlington new builds and homes above 800K and you'll probably find all the complainers.

Try all of the homes. You can't buy into these neighborhoods under 600K these days. I'm not talking renovated houses. These are older homes that might be reasonably well maintained, but are by no means new. My neighborhood has a mix of high and low... But the low ain't that low.

WOW that's crazy these parents must be really sad

[Anonymous]

I grew up in LA in the 70s when kids were bussed into the suburbs from Watts. What happened? Parents in suburbs went further out or sent their kids private. My mom sent me private, why, because those kids brought the gang violence with them.