In what way is polygamy illeagal?

[Anonymous]

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/judge.rules.polygamy.ban.violates.religious.freedom/40094.htm

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Many people will scoff at this...and call it bigotry...but with the passing of laws regarding same sex marriage polygamy is next.

Fine with me. My main issue with the current state of polygamous marriages is that they often involved young women who are coerced. I don't care what consenting adults do.

This is the main reason it's still illegal and why it will probably remain illegal. This is a HUGE issue in the majority of polygamous sects in the United States and making polygamy legal is a good way to green light the guys who run those sects to take on even more brides who are young enough to be their granddaughters. I don't have a problem with polygamy between consenting adults, FTR, but I do have a problem with polygamy that involves coercion of young girls into (often incestuous) marriages with older men, polygamy in sects where child and spousal abuse run rampant, polygamy where government abuse is something to be proud of because it's all about "bleeding the beast", polygamy where young men are forced to leave the compounds because they're viewed as competition by the older men who rule with iron fists, etc. Tapestry of Polygamy and The Lost Boys of Polygamy are excellent resources for this topic.

You should know that those books don't tell the whole story. If I had to write a book and I needed it to sell, I would find the most extreme situations to sensationalize my work. No one is advocating marriage to minors. That is illegal and probably always will be.

PP here. What part of the story do you think those books are leaving out? I know plenty about what goes on in the foothills of Utah, unfortunately. No one is advocating marriage to minors, but plenty of people in those states are already looking the other way when it's going on.

The books are leaving out the marriages that work well and the fact that not all of the men are abusive.

PP again. No one is saying a polygamous marriage can't work well or that some of the men who engage in polygamy are nice, non-abusive guys who treat their wives and children well. Cody Brown seems like a huge attention whore but I doubt he's ever laid a hand on any of his wives or children. And no one is suggesting that the issues of child and spousal abuse, runaway children, rape, forced marriage, incest, welfare fraud, etc are in any way unique to polygamy. However, it is well-established that polygamous sects on the whole have MAJOR problems with all of the above, way higher than what you'd find in the general population (someone upthread brought up Amish and certain Orthodox Jewish communities--I can't speak to those as i'm not familiar with their rates). Joseph Smith, the original founder of Mormon polygamy, successfully sold the love story between him and his "first" wife Emma to millions of faithful LDS followers, despite the well-documented fact that he was nothing more than a pedophile who was having sex with dozens of minor girls on the side. The Mormon Church just acknowledged this in 2014 and it predictably didn't go over very well with a lot of LDS women who had been told otherwise all their lives.

Like I said, I couldn't care less about polygamy amongst consenting adults. I'm all for legalizing that (and gay marriage). I just worry it would lead to even less cracking down on assholes like Warren Jeffs who are already doing horrible things in the name of religion in states where there's already very, very little concern for these kind of activities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many people will scoff at this...and call it bigotry...but with the passing of laws regarding same sex marriage polygamy is next.

Fine with me. My main issue with the current state of polygamous marriages is that they often involved young women who are coerced. I don't care what consenting adults do.

This is the main reason it's still illegal and why it will probably remain illegal. This is a HUGE issue in the majority of polygamous sects in the United States and making polygamy legal is a good way to green light the guys who run those sects to take on even more brides who are young enough to be their granddaughters. I don't have a problem with polygamy between consenting adults, FTR, but I do have a problem with polygamy that involves coercion of young girls into (often incestuous) marriages with older men, polygamy in sects where child and spousal abuse run rampant, polygamy where government abuse is something to be proud of because it's all about "bleeding the beast", polygamy where young men are forced to leave the compounds because they're viewed as competition by the older men who rule with iron fists, etc. Tapestry of Polygamy and The Lost Boys of Polygamy are excellent resources for this topic.

You should know that those books don't tell the whole story. If I had to write a book and I needed it to sell, I would find the most extreme situations to sensationalize my work. No one is advocating marriage to minors. That is illegal and probably always will be.

PP here. What part of the story do you think those books are leaving out? I know plenty about what goes on in the foothills of Utah, unfortunately. No one is advocating marriage to minors, but plenty of people in those states are already looking the other way when it's going on.

The books are leaving out the marriages that work well and the fact that not all of the men are abusive.

PP again. No one is saying a polygamous marriage can't work well or that some of the men who engage in polygamy are nice, non-abusive guys who treat their wives and children well. Cody Brown seems like a huge attention whore but I doubt he's ever laid a hand on any of his wives or children. And no one is suggesting that the issues of child and spousal abuse, runaway children, rape, forced marriage, incest, welfare fraud, etc are in any way unique to polygamy. However, it is well-established that polygamous sects on the whole have MAJOR problems with all of the above, way higher than what you'd find in the general population (someone upthread brought up Amish and certain Orthodox Jewish communities--I can't speak to those as i'm not familiar with their rates). Joseph Smith, the original founder of Mormon polygamy, successfully sold the love story between him and his "first" wife Emma to millions of faithful LDS followers, despite the well-documented fact that he was nothing more than a pedophile who was having sex with dozens of minor girls on the side. The Mormon Church just acknowledged this in 2014 and it predictably didn't go over very well with a lot of LDS women who had been told otherwise all their lives.

Like I said, I couldn't care less about polygamy amongst consenting adults. I'm all for legalizing that (and gay marriage). I just worry it would lead to even less cracking down on assholes like Warren Jeffs who are already doing horrible things in the name of religion in states where there's already very, very little concern for these kind of activities.

They will crack down on them more. Because the law enforcement officers will not be afraid of being accused of persecution.
Joseph Smith had sex with many young women, but I am not sure that there was an age of consent back then. I think they were all over 13 or 14. My great grandfathers would've been in jail now a days for what they did, and they weren't Mormon.

[Anonymous]

Also pp, the fact that Cody Brown is an attention whore is the very reason he did the show...and he needed money.

[Anonymous]

How about gay polygamy? Is that okay?

[Anonymous]

I am unclear. What is the issue regarding polygons getting married?

[Anonymous]

There are actually a number of hidden polygamous marriages in the US. They almost all (perhaps all) involve one man married to a number of women, and the women and children are often supported by public benefits. Let's talk about equal pay and equal rights first.

Maybe gay polygamy would work better.

[Anonymous]

Polygamy shouldn't be illegal for much longer once the Supreme Court legalizes gay marriage. It's hard to make a legal distinction for outlawing one marriage arrangement between consenting adults (which actually has some historical basis in US history) while legitimizing an arrangement that few even contemplated 15 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Polygamy shouldn't be illegal for much longer once the Supreme Court legalizes gay marriage. It's hard to make a legal distinction for outlawing one marriage arrangement between consenting adults (which actually has some historical basis in US history) while legitimizing an arrangement that few even contemplated 15 years ago.

Exactly right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Polygamy shouldn't be illegal for much longer once the Supreme Court legalizes gay marriage. It's hard to make a legal distinction for outlawing one marriage arrangement between consenting adults (which actually has some historical basis in US history) while legitimizing an arrangement that few even contemplated 15 years ago.

Exactly right.

I disagree. The law is not written to decide the legal and tax implications of partnerships beyond 2 individuals.

I don't care about the morality of it, nor should the law. What I care about is the possibility of an association built for the purpose of avoiding taxation or hiding ownership of assets.

[Anonymous]

But but^^ it's unconstitutional to discriminate against people who are predisposed to loving multiple spouses.

[Anonymous]

Polygamy is illegal because women always get the shaft. It is well documented that polygamy is harmful to women and children.

Okay now I am laughing at my sentence-- unfortunately they only get one!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But but^^ it's unconstitutional to discriminate against people who are predisposed to loving multiple spouses.

Uh, I just gave a reason why it is not.

You are creating something of a tautology. You think if gay marriage is made constitutional, therefore polygamy must be constitutional. I gave you a legal reason why I disagree, and you responded by repeating the same claim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But but^^ it's unconstitutional to discriminate against people who are predisposed to loving multiple spouses.

Uh, I just gave a reason why it is not.

You are creating something of a tautology. You think if gay marriage is made constitutional, therefore polygamy must be constitutional. I gave you a legal reason why I disagree, and you responded by repeating the same claim.

Marriage has been redefined and now you can't shut the door on other minorities .

[Anonymous]

The law is unconstitutional if people predisposed to multiple spouses and partners are discriminated against.