School without Walls High Admission test results

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Info on the interview:http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/15/218881.page

Looks like SWW got Jeff to delete the student's first reply, but they forgot the second.

Some Gems:

"I know the high school transition was extremely hard for me- the last thing I would want is to set up a kid who would not be able to succeed at this school to fail. The middle school involved was one a sibling of mine went to, so I knew that the work load wasn't as hard or extensive at SWW. Both of the teachers who were in the room with me were also worried about the ability of the student to succeed here, it wasn't just me. "

This is talking about a student who this student interviewer nixed because, and I quote, "The student was getting all As in middle school."

"And as for allowing students to interview: her is something that will probably scare you out of your mind: there were 3-4 students per room, with 2 teachers. All of us had equal weight in the decision."

So, in theory, if the 3-4 kids don't like how your kid looks, or the fact your kid is smart, good luck.

"The reason they did this was because as students we know the school, and we know how to succeed at the school. I would like to point out that only issue with my example was not that he spent so much time with homework. "

Yes, because empower the students.

"As for the 'ungrounded' view that he wouldn't be able to succeed, its a fact that high school, especially at an academically challenging high school such as walls, is harder then most middle schools."

How do you choose who is going to succeed at your high school? I guess spidey sense, as that is the only explanation given by this interviewer.

" Is seeing a kid spending 3+ hours working on homework during middle school send up a big red flag? At least to this panel it certainly does. Maybe to you it seems like nothing, go ahead... Start interviewing students yourself. At this point I am going off to college, I'm almost done with school, I don't need to argue about this shit with you."

This just in, give up now if your kid spends more then 15 minutes on homework...

Now, most of you will say this is a troll. BUT THE SCHOOL ADMITTED THAT THIS WAS A LEGITIMATE STUDENT BY SENDING A "PARENT" TO DO DAMAGE CONTROL (http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/60/218881.page)

"-Students on the panel had an equal voice in theory, but the teachers could nullify any student's answers if the teacher felt that the decision was biased or not based on fact. When a student was on the line between passing the process/failing it, the teacher's response was weighted better. "

Can I point out this makes no sense? So students have an equal voice, except when they don't? The entire reply sounds like a simple case of damage control, likely by an administrator.

"-While part of this interview was to learn more about the personality of the students, their extracurricular activities, experience, etc... It was more just to look at them as people, and see what they would gain by going to SWW, both socially and academically. Questions asked related to extra-curricular activities, academic integrity, and more general questions to get to know about them. "

And then there is this, which pretty much says that the student was right.

"As for the "student", if you are a student, and you are reading this, please talk to the administration. They would (and to be honest I would) like to know where you got your information, as it definitely isn't true. "

This sounds like they know exactly who the "student" is. And are trying to get him/her to come forward themselves.

Also, other parents agreed with the student poster:

"I must agree completely! the student's explanation of the interview process was EXACTLY my experience when my son and I interviewed at this school last week. Not for one minute do I believe that the previous post was from a real SWW parent who was a part of the interview process. And even if it was then I do not feel that she provided an accurate portrayal of the interview and selection process. I am livid with this school and its' unprofessionalism."

"My experience was exactly the same as the poster's who said that the two teachers she interviewed with attempted to be as intimidating and unpleasant as possible. We probably had the same panel. Those teachers, in my opinion, should not be conducting interviews. If the school leadership can't recognize that, then I have real doubts about their ability to manage personnel."

"I am a parent who holds multiple degrees. I operate in senior management for my organization. I would consider myself to be highly professional, personable, and excellent interviewer. However as one of those parents that interviewed two weeks ago, I found the panel that my son and I met with to be void of any personality, intimidating and unpleasant. I am an articulate and supportive parent who was more than personable and appropriate. However the 15:29 post seem to imply that if your child was not selected it was perhaps because you failed to present well. That is far from the truth. I am not sure what characteristics the panel was looking for. Perhaps I should not have spoken about my child's accomplishments. Perhaps I was too friendly. I have no idea. However what I do know is that the interview was by far the most unprofessional experience that I had ever endured and it has placed enough questions in my mind about SWW that even if they offered my child admission at this point, I would decline. We have since decided to go to an incredible private school where the staff is personable, friendly and attempting to sell their institution to you. "

"The kids should stay in the classroom and apart from the interview process. Based on our experience,even though our child felt fine about it all, we are not going to select Walls over the private school he is invited for 9th grade. Even a week ago we were still trying to let this by our son's decision, but it's too much of a crap shoot, a viable and open-to-scrutiny private or a moody, opaque and strangely less revealing public where teenagers are staring us down. I know others who are choosing Wilson rather than Walls based on the interview experience. Hopefully things will improve, how they represent the school to the world in the future. We may give it another try for 10th grade, after we see how many new freshmen flee, surely they'll need replacements."

ALSO: I found the student's first post quoted by another post, "Yeah, pretty much this. As interviewers, while we took questions, it was mostly to look at the students and parents to see whether we thought they would fit in. For example: the school didn't want to base it completely off exam scores, but also look at the personality of the student and whether they would fit in. There were definitely some students with amazing exam scores and grades that me (and the rest in my room) gave lower scores to then those who didn't do so well, simply because they came off as being too full of themselves, or like they wouldn't fit well with the school.

I remember on who had all As, but was telling us how he was a good student and to get all those As he often worked 3-4 hours of studying and would stay up extremely late. We didn't think he would be able to handle the work load at walls (which is condsiderably greater then most schools in the city, especially middle schools) if he was working for 3-4 hours a night to succeed at middle school, how much would he be working to succeed at high school?"

[Anonymous]

what exactly is the "school culture" or what type of kids "fit in" at Walls?

To me, that is the real question.

As someone with a child interviewing tomorrow,
I would never have considered a few students capable of defining or even identifying the "culture" of a school, unless it was full of Stepford Wives.

Seriously, are you kidding me?

I went to a private high school in DC and there were fewer than 600 students and still no uniform "culture" except that we all agreed that academics were important. Beyond that? The theater groups, the athletes, the STEM kids, the liberal arts kids who wrote poetry, the ones who took Latin all through high school, the "popular kids" who had parties, had sex, did drugs

and I heard from a parent that there is a real drug/alcohol problem at Walls

what kind of "school culture" and "fitting in" are they talking about? I never hear anything specific enough to be useful in an interview or making an informed judgement assuming the interview does not alienate us sufficiently?

[Anonymous]

Um...I'm in no way affiliated with SWW but I just don't see why there's SO MUCH animosity towards this school. Hopefully I don't ever see it. I'm sorry but schools do have cultures. With any culture, there are subcultures that do vary but schools do have cultures. My undergrad was a very communal, hippie, heal the world culture and I'm sorry but someone with a technological, business, profit oriented outlook would not be a part of that culture. None of this is rocket science. Just because we don't like the way that it sounds doesn't mean that it's not true.

Also, it's an INTERVIEW. Interviews judge people's ability to fit into a an office's or team's climate or culture. Job interviews aren't about accolades or accomplishments, those are called resumes. I'm sorry that the concept of interviews makes people so uncomfortable for their children, but consider this a dose of the real world. It may not be soft a cuddly like a crib's bumper, but its actually pretty reflective of the real world. Lets just try to deal with it and hope for the best.

[Anonymous]

My DC is a sophomore. The interview was not that bad. She had her prepared list in her head of the 5 or 6 things she wanted to mentioned and worked them into the conversation. One of the hard parts is actually the timing. The student interview is 10 minutes. The parent interview is 5 minutes. So the kid needs be bold and walk into the room, introduce themselves, sit down and get started. Otherwise, the kid waste the first few minutes of their interview. A typical question is what is your favorite book and why. Tell me about what you do outside of school and how that will fit into your high school career. There will be a question about post high school. I think my DC was asked why she thought she SWW would be a good fit. The student needs to articulate his organizational skills, ability to work in group projects (tons of these at SWW), independent to meet expectations without coddling from teachers etc.

[Anonymous]

My now-freshman was asked to discuss a current event about which she felt strongly. This was my favorite question-- I think it's quite a good one, actually: "If we were to see your room at home, what would it tell us about you?"

Walls has an enthusiastic, nerdy culture. Re. drugs, when a MoCo friend described kids at her school who smoke pot on a hill somewhere behind the campus and asked if this was an issue at DD's school, DD replied that there are more hackers than potheads at Walls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My now-freshman was asked to discuss a current event about which she felt strongly. This was my favorite question-- I think it's quite a good one, actually: "If we were to see your room at home, what would it tell us about you?"

Walls has an enthusiastic, nerdy culture. Re. drugs, when a MoCo friend described kids at her school who smoke pot on a hill somewhere behind the campus and asked if this was an issue at DD's school, DD replied that there are more hackers than potheads at Walls.

All high schools have drugs and Walls is no exception. There are plenty of potheads there. Nerds smoke pot too. It's ridiculous for any parent to think the school does not have its share of teen issues. It's a high school and just because you have to test in doesn't mean kids don't act like regualr teenagers.

As for PP about the animosity. Most of it is directed towards the administration.

[Anonymous]

We looked at the interview as a chance to learn more about the school and it's teachers and students. An interview is a two way street right - do you want us AND do we want you? I was glad to have that (brief) opportunity since otherwise it is hard discern the culture of the place. In our case, both students and the teacher were very impressive and seemed to do their best to put our child as ease. As parents we spent our time asking the students about their college plans and senior projects.

[Anonymous]

DC and many of her friends all had interviews yesterday. All had positive experiences, so not sure what all the fuss is about in these previous posts..? Maybe they revamped the format? We had a small panel, one teacher and two students. They were friendly and professional. DC said the questions were challenging only because they were creative and thought provoking, but not in a "gotcha" sort of way. We found it to be a very smooth operation, with additional students there to greet us in the waiting area, many of whom were freshman who introduced themselves to us and chatted with our daughter before taking us to the interview location. All in all a very nice experience and I really hope she is accepted!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC and many of her friends all had interviews yesterday. All had positive experiences, so not sure what all the fuss is about in these previous posts..? Maybe they revamped the format? We had a small panel, one teacher and two students. They were friendly and professional. DC said the questions were challenging only because they were creative and thought provoking, but not in a "gotcha" sort of way. We found it to be a very smooth operation, with additional students there to greet us in the waiting area, many of whom were freshman who introduced themselves to us and chatted with our daughter before taking us to the interview location. All in all a very nice experience and I really hope she is accepted!

the fuss was about a thread from interviews last year, where a student posted that s/he rejected an applicant b/c applicant admitted to spending 3 hours a night on homework at school student had a sibling at which was not a rigorous MS so said student in a really obnoxious way explained that student had decided applicant could not handle the "rigorous" academics at Walls. Interviews were hostile, unprofessional, disorganized, student interviewers lacked the skills to conduct a professional interview and the judgement not to post here afterwards sounding incredibly obnoxious - they rejected kids they thought were too "full of themselves" and one mother concluded that her attempt in her interview to talk up the accomplishments of her shy child might have led to the decision............

Student comments on old thread were recently deleted by Jeff Steele, but the great thing about DCUM is that someone from Walls was reading the thread.... and the fact that some of the interviews were so bad the parents opted for Wilson instead, or private, must have woken someone up.

Dc interviewed yesterday, small panel, friendly crowd, no interrogation style tactics.

The fuss from the other thread seemed legitimate b/c it was unanimous on the part of the parents who had been interviewed last year plus the idiotic student who piped up about what was clearly bad decision making and was bragging about it.

I think Walls finally got that they have to sell their school now during interviews, not necessarily the other way around, and did it this year. Kudos to them for being proactive, and lowering the arrogance hostility and lack of professionalism in the interviews. Having a bad, demeaning interview conducted by a student who lacks the skills to properly conduct one but has the authority to make the decision (they and the teachers apparently are given equally weighted votes) and then has the idiocy to come on DCUM and explain the bad decision making process made Walls wake up and change their game on this one front. Good job to DCUM parents who posted that for them, the interview process last year made them decide not to let their children attend the school. Good job by Walls for changing, fast.

So sorry DCPS is bent on their destruction and has refused to give them their own principal etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Um...I'm in no way affiliated with SWW but I just don't see why there's SO MUCH animosity towards this school. Hopefully I don't ever see it. I'm sorry but schools do have cultures. With any culture, there are subcultures that do vary but schools do have cultures. My undergrad was a very communal, hippie, heal the world culture and I'm sorry but someone with a technological, business, profit oriented outlook would not be a part of that culture. None of this is rocket science. Just because we don't like the way that it sounds doesn't mean that it's not true.

Also, it's an INTERVIEW. Interviews judge people's ability to fit into a an office's or team's climate or culture. Job interviews aren't about accolades or accomplishments, those are called resumes. I'm sorry that the concept of interviews makes people so uncomfortable for their children, but consider this a dose of the real world. It may not be soft a cuddly like a crib's bumper, but its actually pretty reflective of the real world. Lets just try to deal with it and hope for the best.

read the "gems" a pp quoted from the other thread above. The interviews were not being conducted professionally to such a degree that they turned parents off and those parents sent their kids to Wilson or private schools. That is not the way the interview process is supposed to work in the real world - it should be an exchange of information, not such an awful experience that parents decide not to send their kids there because of the conduct of the student interviewers.

This was not much ado about nothing. Sounds like you must have gone to a SLAC. Care to define the "culture" at Harvard, Yale or Princeton? Good luck. Your best shot would be off by miles. Care to define the culture at UVA? That, my friend, can be done. There is a difference, and the fact that you use your college as an example just illustrates your tendency to judge everything through the lense of your own personal experiences - myopic, idiotic, and wrong.

If you are going to complain about a fuss, read about it first to see whether people were making legitimate complaints. They were, and it seems to have been a game changer for Walls much to their benefit.

You did not "see" because you did not look. That is known as myopic.

[Anonymous]

Good to hear interview process ran better this year

PP- The principal is running both schools because the principal wants to run both schools. He was a key force in the push for the merger with FS. Dcps supports him fully because the HS has high test scores. it should be obvious to dcps that all high schools should have their own principal but then again this is DCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC and many of her friends all had interviews yesterday. All had positive experiences, so not sure what all the fuss is about in these previous posts..? Maybe they revamped the format? We had a small panel, one teacher and two students. They were friendly and professional. DC said the questions were challenging only because they were creative and thought provoking, but not in a "gotcha" sort of way. We found it to be a very smooth operation, with additional students there to greet us in the waiting area, many of whom were freshman who introduced themselves to us and chatted with our daughter before taking us to the interview location. All in all a very nice experience and I really hope she is accepted!

the fuss was about a thread from interviews last year, where a student posted that s/he rejected an applicant b/c applicant admitted to spending 3 hours a night on homework at school student had a sibling at which was not a rigorous MS so said student in a really obnoxious way explained that student had decided applicant could not handle the "rigorous" academics at Walls. Interviews were hostile, unprofessional, disorganized, student interviewers lacked the skills to conduct a professional interview and the judgement not to post here afterwards sounding incredibly obnoxious - they rejected kids they thought were too "full of themselves" and one mother concluded that her attempt in her interview to talk up the accomplishments of her shy child might have led to the decision............

Student comments on old thread were recently deleted by Jeff Steele, but the great thing about DCUM is that someone from Walls was reading the thread.... and the fact that some of the interviews were so bad the parents opted for Wilson instead, or private, must have woken someone up.

Dc interviewed yesterday, small panel, friendly crowd, no interrogation style tactics.

The fuss from the other thread seemed legitimate b/c it was unanimous on the part of the parents who had been interviewed last year plus the idiotic student who piped up about what was clearly bad decision making and was bragging about it.

I think Walls finally got that they have to sell their school now during interviews, not necessarily the other way around, and did it this year. Kudos to them for being proactive, and lowering the arrogance hostility and lack of professionalism in the interviews. Having a bad, demeaning interview conducted by a student who lacks the skills to properly conduct one but has the authority to make the decision (they and the teachers apparently are given equally weighted votes) and then has the idiocy to come on DCUM and explain the bad decision making process made Walls wake up and change their game on this one front. Good job to DCUM parents who posted that for them, the interview process last year made them decide not to let their children attend the school. Good job by Walls for changing, fast.

So sorry DCPS is bent on their destruction and has refused to give them their own principal etc

I agree that this is absolutely essential for Walls, but disagree that they got it right this year. We thought the admissions process was a mess, and showed a complete lack of understanding for the way the selective process is now merged with the lottery process. (This isn't Walls' fault, but it's their obligation to change their systems to make the process work more smoothly for applicants.) Now that these selective schools are part of the lottery, forcing students and families to rank the schools before the application process is over, students decide preemptively which school they most want to attend, so Walls needs to do a MUCH better job (not a marginally better job) selling itself. Since it hasn't done so, it wouldn't surprise me if it fails to fill its freshman class again. Our child and most others we know who applied didn't rank Walls first, so if they are accepted into their #1-ranked schools, they'll be dropped from the Walls list and will never hear their Walls admissions results. The fact that Walls doesn't understand this and still refuses to allow parents and students to see classes in action before the ranking lottery is over speaks volumes to me. I think they may end up with mostly kids who, for whatever reason, don't have other options (Wilson, Latin, Banneker, Duke Ellington, private schools, etc.).

FWIW, our interview experience yesterday was pretty bad, and other families from our school had similar experiences. The student interviewers weren't overtly hostile, but they also didn't sell the school in any way to either our child or to us. The teacher didn't seem to understand or be able to sell the school, either.

[Anonymous]

I think the attitude is "you're auditioning for us" and not the other way around. This is partially a result of parents, especially from upper caucausia, to see themselves as the saviors of DCPS due to keep their kids in the system. All these cries of "...or else we'll go private" really don't endear you to the rest of the city - or even, as you've seen, the HS staff and students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the attitude is "you're auditioning for us" and not the other way around. This is partially a result of parents, especially from upper caucausia, to see themselves as the saviors of DCPS due to keep their kids in the system. All these cries of "...or else we'll go private" really don't endear you to the rest of the city - or even, as you've seen, the HS staff and students.

I'm sure there's some truth to the idea of prospective Walls parents being annoying with their requests to visit, etc. Fact is, though, that every other school in the area (public, private, and charter) allows students (and parents) to visit before they're admitted. So Walls can fight this and believe that they can get away with it, but their admissions stats last year seem to indicate that they won't get away with it for much longer. Sure, DCPS will let the "Walls way" go on and on because Walls has good test scores, but they have good test scores because they screen all applicants for grades and test scores. So good test scores tell you absolutely nothing about the quality of the school. It's a buyer's market now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC and many of her friends all had interviews yesterday. All had positive experiences, so not sure what all the fuss is about in these previous posts..? Maybe they revamped the format? We had a small panel, one teacher and two students. They were friendly and professional. DC said the questions were challenging only because they were creative and thought provoking, but not in a "gotcha" sort of way. We found it to be a very smooth operation, with additional students there to greet us in the waiting area, many of whom were freshman who introduced themselves to us and chatted with our daughter before taking us to the interview location. All in all a very nice experience and I really hope she is accepted!

the fuss was about a thread from interviews last year, where a student posted that s/he rejected an applicant b/c applicant admitted to spending 3 hours a night on homework at school student had a sibling at which was not a rigorous MS so said student in a really obnoxious way explained that student had decided applicant could not handle the "rigorous" academics at Walls. Interviews were hostile, unprofessional, disorganized, student interviewers lacked the skills to conduct a professional interview and the judgement not to post here afterwards sounding incredibly obnoxious - they rejected kids they thought were too "full of themselves" and one mother concluded that her attempt in her interview to talk up the accomplishments of her shy child might have led to the decision............

Student comments on old thread were recently deleted by Jeff Steele, but the great thing about DCUM is that someone from Walls was reading the thread.... and the fact that some of the interviews were so bad the parents opted for Wilson instead, or private, must have woken someone up.

Dc interviewed yesterday, small panel, friendly crowd, no interrogation style tactics.

The fuss from the other thread seemed legitimate b/c it was unanimous on the part of the parents who had been interviewed last year plus the idiotic student who piped up about what was clearly bad decision making and was bragging about it.

I think Walls finally got that they have to sell their school now during interviews, not necessarily the other way around, and did it this year. Kudos to them for being proactive, and lowering the arrogance hostility and lack of professionalism in the interviews. Having a bad, demeaning interview conducted by a student who lacks the skills to properly conduct one but has the authority to make the decision (they and the teachers apparently are given equally weighted votes) and then has the idiocy to come on DCUM and explain the bad decision making process made Walls wake up and change their game on this one front. Good job to DCUM parents who posted that for them, the interview process last year made them decide not to let their children attend the school. Good job by Walls for changing, fast.

So sorry DCPS is bent on their destruction and has refused to give them their own principal etc

I really don't know much about this school but I wouldn't assume that this has been the usual policy of the school. Dc interviewed with Walls some years ago and the interview was pleasant and informative. Not saying that those particular interviews cited above weren't awful but it was not my experience nor the experience of dc's friends some years ago.