Early Decision Results at DS or DD school

[Anonymous]

Pp that's interesting.

[Anonymous]

In our experience this is absolutely true, the recruiting talks in some sports occur so early that some initial discussions and even tentative plans disappear pretty quickly with these schools when a kid finally has a high school GPA beyond 9th or 10th grade, and scores are out of range. The overall averaging of recruiting class also results even in kids that have a great SAT score (i.e. over 2300) being asked to take the test again, even once verbally committed, to see if can bring score up even higher to help out the coach in being able to bring on a kid with lower AI. This is what happened with our DD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here. There is "in addition" to academic merit, and there is "in place of". Athletes recruited by the Ivies need a minimum of a "B-" GPA according to an agreement signed by all the Ivy schools. Try getting in to an Ivy on merit alone with a GPA of B-. The SAT scores of recruited athletes also have a minimum that are hundreds of points lower than a true merit admission. Legacies do not have the same academic records often times - though there are some like my child who probably would have gotten in on his own. Why take the chance though! And plenty of check-the-box applicants who are held to different standards. See the lawsuit against Harvard for that discussion. So I wouldn't jump all over PP for not saying "in addition to" academic merit. That just simply isn't true in a lot of cases. If you can't admit that, then you don't live in the real world.

Wow are your facts wrong! Parent of a recruited athlete to Yale here. You should do some research on how the Academic Index works before commenting. The ignorance of your comments is astounding.

Actually, this post is pretty darn accurate for Brown and Penn, since I had two sons recruited for different sports at both. Actually, the Washington Post published a lot of these same guidelines a few weeks ago. I remember the SAT minimums being under 2000 and one of my sons told he had to keep his GPA to a B- to get recruited to Penn. Hard to believe that Yale would do things radically different. But there's no doubt that athletes in demand do not need to be on par merit-wise with regular applicants.

I think there could be a difference. Yale is in an altogether different league than Penn.

Haha. Actually since we are talking about sports here technically Yale is in exactly the same league as Penn. The Ivy League.

There's quite a range within the Ivy League, which after all, is just an intercollegiate sports federation. There's no dispute that Yale is a top Ivy. Penn is not, though it certainly is ahead of Cornell.

[Anonymous]

Even at Cornell, the average AI for an incoming class is in excess of 215. So their recruited athletes will have pretty decent boards and GPAs. The B- student would be quite rare. First hand knowledge of recent recruit had a GPA above 3.6 and SAT in excess of 2200. We should be careful when prejudging.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here. There is "in addition" to academic merit, and there is "in place of". Athletes recruited by the Ivies need a minimum of a "B-" GPA according to an agreement signed by all the Ivy schools. Try getting in to an Ivy on merit alone with a GPA of B-. The SAT scores of recruited athletes also have a minimum that are hundreds of points lower than a true merit admission. Legacies do not have the same academic records often times - though there are some like my child who probably would have gotten in on his own. Why take the chance though! And plenty of check-the-box applicants who are held to different standards. See the lawsuit against Harvard for that discussion. So I wouldn't jump all over PP for not saying "in addition to" academic merit. That just simply isn't true in a lot of cases. If you can't admit that, then you don't live in the real world.

Wow are your facts wrong! Parent of a recruited athlete to Yale here. You should do some research on how the Academic Index works before commenting. The ignorance of your comments is astounding.

Actually, this post is pretty darn accurate for Brown and Penn, since I had two sons recruited for different sports at both. Actually, the Washington Post published a lot of these same guidelines a few weeks ago. I remember the SAT minimums being under 2000 and one of my sons told he had to keep his GPA to a B- to get recruited to Penn. Hard to believe that Yale would do things radically different. But there's no doubt that athletes in demand do not need to be on par merit-wise with regular applicants.

Fun with numbers. The median Academic Index for students at Yale is roughly 230. This equates to a 2,255 combined SAT and an unweighted GPA of 3.9. The Ivy League guidelines require that any individual recruited sports team has an average AI that is no more than one standard deviation below the overall school's average (technically, the measure is against the incoming class' average, but overall school average is close enough). So, the standard is not some absolute number for the entire league but is measured against the individual school's standards. Back to the numbers. One standard deviation on the AI is roughly 15 points, so this would require that the recruited class for the football team and the hockey team and the swimming team each as a separate matter would have an average AI of at least 215. There are a few ways of getting to the 215. An athlete could have a combined SAT of 2,100 (700 on each section) and clear the bar of 215 with an unweighted GPA of 3.6. Or, if he/she was an exceptional test taker and scored a 2,250 on the SAT, then he/she could make the target with an unweighted GPA of 3.4. Even a 2,400 SAT would not allow you to achieve an AI of 215 with a B- (or 2.7 GPA) as some would suggest here. Granted, there are some athletes who score below the average AI, for whom there needs to be a counterbalancing above average recruit on the other side, and the absolute floor that is discussed is present to remove the moral hazard of sabotaging the school's overall academic standards in pursuit of stronger athletics (leveler for the field of schools). This floor is not at all operable when you are having a serious and factual recruiting conversation with a coach at a place like Yale or Harvard or Princeton.



So, while it is easy to throw out second hand stories about such and such potentially Ivy League recruited athlete, when it comes to formalizing a commitment the numbers just have to add up. Further, to generalize that all recruited athletes fall in one particular place on the spectrum is also a mistake. Bottom line: B- = Rejected at Yale even if you are the next Calvin Hill.

Unless you are actually in the admissions office of Yale, I am assuming you are just an obnoxious blowhard, which is definitely how you come off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here. There is "in addition" to academic merit, and there is "in place of". Athletes recruited by the Ivies need a minimum of a "B-" GPA according to an agreement signed by all the Ivy schools. Try getting in to an Ivy on merit alone with a GPA of B-. The SAT scores of recruited athletes also have a minimum that are hundreds of points lower than a true merit admission. Legacies do not have the same academic records often times - though there are some like my child who probably would have gotten in on his own. Why take the chance though! And plenty of check-the-box applicants who are held to different standards. See the lawsuit against Harvard for that discussion. So I wouldn't jump all over PP for not saying "in addition to" academic merit. That just simply isn't true in a lot of cases. If you can't admit that, then you don't live in the real world.

Wow are your facts wrong! Parent of a recruited athlete to Yale here. You should do some research on how the Academic Index works before commenting. The ignorance of your comments is astounding.

Actually, this post is pretty darn accurate for Brown and Penn, since I had two sons recruited for different sports at both. Actually, the Washington Post published a lot of these same guidelines a few weeks ago. I remember the SAT minimums being under 2000 and one of my sons told he had to keep his GPA to a B- to get recruited to Penn. Hard to believe that Yale would do things radically different. But there's no doubt that athletes in demand do not need to be on par merit-wise with regular applicants.

Fun with numbers. The median Academic Index for students at Yale is roughly 230. This equates to a 2,255 combined SAT and an unweighted GPA of 3.9. The Ivy League guidelines require that any individual recruited sports team has an average AI that is no more than one standard deviation below the overall school's average (technically, the measure is against the incoming class' average, but overall school average is close enough). So, the standard is not some absolute number for the entire league but is measured against the individual school's standards. Back to the numbers. One standard deviation on the AI is roughly 15 points, so this would require that the recruited class for the football team and the hockey team and the swimming team each as a separate matter would have an average AI of at least 215. There are a few ways of getting to the 215. An athlete could have a combined SAT of 2,100 (700 on each section) and clear the bar of 215 with an unweighted GPA of 3.6. Or, if he/she was an exceptional test taker and scored a 2,250 on the SAT, then he/she could make the target with an unweighted GPA of 3.4. Even a 2,400 SAT would not allow you to achieve an AI of 215 with a B- (or 2.7 GPA) as some would suggest here. Granted, there are some athletes who score below the average AI, for whom there needs to be a counterbalancing above average recruit on the other side, and the absolute floor that is discussed is present to remove the moral hazard of sabotaging the school's overall academic standards in pursuit of stronger athletics (leveler for the field of schools). This floor is not at all operable when you are having a serious and factual recruiting conversation with a coach at a place like Yale or Harvard or Princeton.



So, while it is easy to throw out second hand stories about such and such potentially Ivy League recruited athlete, when it comes to formalizing a commitment the numbers just have to add up. Further, to generalize that all recruited athletes fall in one particular place on the spectrum is also a mistake. Bottom line: B- = Rejected at Yale even if you are the next Calvin Hill.

Unless you are actually in the admissions office of Yale, I am assuming you are just an obnoxious blowhard, which is definitely how you come off.

No, just a person who does his research before spouting off...a concept foreign to some.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here. There is "in addition" to academic merit, and there is "in place of". Athletes recruited by the Ivies need a minimum of a "B-" GPA according to an agreement signed by all the Ivy schools. Try getting in to an Ivy on merit alone with a GPA of B-. The SAT scores of recruited athletes also have a minimum that are hundreds of points lower than a true merit admission. Legacies do not have the same academic records often times - though there are some like my child who probably would have gotten in on his own. Why take the chance though! And plenty of check-the-box applicants who are held to different standards. See the lawsuit against Harvard for that discussion. So I wouldn't jump all over PP for not saying "in addition to" academic merit. That just simply isn't true in a lot of cases. If you can't admit that, then you don't live in the real world.

Wow are your facts wrong! Parent of a recruited athlete to Yale here. You should do some research on how the Academic Index works before commenting. The ignorance of your comments is astounding.

Actually, this post is pretty darn accurate for Brown and Penn, since I had two sons recruited for different sports at both. Actually, the Washington Post published a lot of these same guidelines a few weeks ago. I remember the SAT minimums being under 2000 and one of my sons told he had to keep his GPA to a B- to get recruited to Penn. Hard to believe that Yale would do things radically different. But there's no doubt that athletes in demand do not need to be on par merit-wise with regular applicants.

Fun with numbers. The median Academic Index for students at Yale is roughly 230. This equates to a 2,255 combined SAT and an unweighted GPA of 3.9. The Ivy League guidelines require that any individual recruited sports team has an average AI that is no more than one standard deviation below the overall school's average (technically, the measure is against the incoming class' average, but overall school average is close enough). So, the standard is not some absolute number for the entire league but is measured against the individual school's standards. Back to the numbers. One standard deviation on the AI is roughly 15 points, so this would require that the recruited class for the football team and the hockey team and the swimming team each as a separate matter would have an average AI of at least 215. There are a few ways of getting to the 215. An athlete could have a combined SAT of 2,100 (700 on each section) and clear the bar of 215 with an unweighted GPA of 3.6. Or, if he/she was an exceptional test taker and scored a 2,250 on the SAT, then he/she could make the target with an unweighted GPA of 3.4. Even a 2,400 SAT would not allow you to achieve an AI of 215 with a B- (or 2.7 GPA) as some would suggest here. Granted, there are some athletes who score below the average AI, for whom there needs to be a counterbalancing above average recruit on the other side, and the absolute floor that is discussed is present to remove the moral hazard of sabotaging the school's overall academic standards in pursuit of stronger athletics (leveler for the field of schools). This floor is not at all operable when you are having a serious and factual recruiting conversation with a coach at a place like Yale or Harvard or Princeton.



So, while it is easy to throw out second hand stories about such and such potentially Ivy League recruited athlete, when it comes to formalizing a commitment the numbers just have to add up. Further, to generalize that all recruited athletes fall in one particular place on the spectrum is also a mistake. Bottom line: B- = Rejected at Yale even if you are the next Calvin Hill.

Unless you are actually in the admissions office of Yale, I am assuming you are just an obnoxious blowhard, which is definitely how you come off.

Maybe if you call him/her more names it will help with you persuasion. Are you a lawyer, perhaps?

[Anonymous]

Penn is not higher than Cornell when you compare their respective Arts & Sciences colleges. Cornell has 7 undergraduate colleges with different admissions criteria. The College of Arts & Sciences is every bit as prestigious and competitive as Penn's, and it does a disservice to applicants and their hopeful families to suggest otherwise.

[Anonymous]

I hear from my DD that the kids applying to Yale this year from Sidwell comprise some of the most impressive applicants the school has ever produced (presidents of clubs+national merit finalists+legacies+high achieving+bright and kind). It will be bloodbath to see who gets in... maybe it'll be a year where they take all 10-15?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hear from my DD that the kids applying to Yale this year from Sidwell comprise some of the most impressive applicants the school has ever produced (presidents of clubs+national merit finalists+legacies+high achieving+bright and kind). It will be bloodbath to see who gets in... maybe it'll be a year where they take all 10-15?

That probably describes 80% of the applicants to Yale (except for the legacy part). There are lots of qualified kids out there outside of sidwell. Even outside the DC area.

[Anonymous]

^Sorry but I have to agree with the PP. I personally know many of the sidwell kids and they are truly an extraordinary group of kids. I would not want to be the Yale admissions officer responsible for rejecting some of those kids...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^Sorry but I have to agree with the PP. I personally know many of the sidwell kids and they are truly an extraordinary group of kids. I would not want to be the Yale admissions officer responsible for rejecting some of those kids...

They have hit double digits at Yale before. Good luck to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^Sorry but I have to agree with the PP. I personally know many of the sidwell kids and they are truly an extraordinary group of kids. I would not want to be the Yale admissions officer responsible for rejecting some of those kids...

Particularly when they are competing against an especially amazing group of applicants from Georgetown Day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^Sorry but I have to agree with the PP. I personally know many of the sidwell kids and they are truly an extraordinary group of kids. I would not want to be the Yale admissions officer responsible for rejecting some of those kids...

Well, they can't all be National Merit Semifinalists, because Sidwell only had 6 total this year. And those admissions officers will sleep as soundly as can be, knowing that a) it's only early action; b) the rejected students will attend some other highly selective college; and c) that their job by definition entails rejecting hundreds or even thousands of wonderful young people.

Kids will do better if people don't act as if a tragedy has occurred because they did not get into their early option. It's like when a toddler trips -- they look at your face to see if they should cry or shrug it off.

[Anonymous]

Who are these amazing kids if I may ask the previous posters? As someone from outside sidwell I dont know if I can really believe that they are that amazing. Did they write a book or something? National champion debaters? Head of every club? I dont even know what to imagine when people are fawning over 17 and 18 year olds...